Csection Support Thread April 2005 (cont discussion from March) - Page 6

[OnTheFence]

Shannon thanks for sharing with us your experience. I never though about a pillow for my head. That would definitely make things easier after the birth in the OR. I will add that to my birthplan and talk to my OB about it.

Sorry about your spinal. Ugh. I hate those damn things. My SIL had a successful one but she is now leaning towards an epidural to have better pain management after delivery. She is going to be at the hospital when I have Katie, since she will be delivering there too, and wants to see how well I do. She hasnt had a baby in almost 11 years so she is happy to know she has some different options.

[shannon0218]

Yeah, it was my doctor who thought of the pillow and it made a huge difference-especially since I'm rather "chesty" :LOL
I was told the only reason I wouldn't be able to have the pillow would be if they were concerned about my breathing.
The thing that was most important to me was having her placed on my chest, I was fine with them checking her over first, afterall she was 3 weeks early but I desparately wanted to have her on my chest-I told my doctor that was the most important thing on my list of wants, so she suggested the pillow and made sure it happened for me--right down to telling the nurses not to swaddle Molly and just to provide extra warmed blankets to cover me and Molly.

[LisaG]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

What a wonderfully sweet thing to say. I often think of leaving MDC but don't because of this thread mainly. And mainly my age. I've grown as a mother and a woman and I have definitely abandoned some of my ideals to do things that work better for me and for my kids.

The real key, the one I am stressing to my SIL who is due 10 weeks after me, is that there isn't one way to do things. There are options, you just have to find the right folks and doctor to help you as you advocate for yourself, your pregnancy, and birth.

My goal this summer is to get a Cesarean Goddess site up. I want it to be open to all but I think it would be great to be able to get a lot of info in one place instead of trying to fetch it from here there and yonder and peice meal the info.

I would love to read the article you mentioned above. I definitely haven't come across something from an actual physician and would love to read it.

Well I have to admit Kim that when we first "met" here, your intensity & passion disturbed me at times. But it also made me look at things I really needed to look at, and sometimes it takes big energy to get me to do that, especially when I get caught up in being "right" . When I was first coming to terms with the possibility that I'd need a c/s you were the first person I'd ever heard talk about what a healing experience it was for you. It gave me brainlash because until then the only women I thought were ok with their c/s were those who didn't know any better. In my book, you "knew better", and you were still ok with it. Not only ok with it but the joy you experienced from it was amazing to me. How could the antithesis of a peaceful homebirth be a joyful experience? Was it possible that MY birth experience could be joyful and sacred even if it involves hospitals and surgery? I am grateful to be able to answer yes to that.

I'm realizing more and more that birth comes in a variety of packages no matter what route you choose. It is unpredictable by nature. We do the best we can do and I think we do ourselves a disservice to get locked in to only one model being the "ideal". I look forward to seeing your website!

As for the cord clamping info - I found it! http://www.cordclamping.com/dunn72a.pdf It's from 1972, but has some interesting info as well as his protocol.

Lisa

[LisaG]

Originally Posted by shannon0218

What I ended up doing with my OB was write down all the things I'd like to happen, then she asked me which ones were most important and we went over all the things that could throw a wrench in the plan. She agreed to all she could to honor my wishes if I agreed that she could change things without me being upset if she felt it would be dangerous to follow our original plans.
I did get; no drape up once the first cut was completed; dh did cut the cord; we kept our placenta; music in the OR from a cd I made; recovered in my room with family and my baby; my dh plus my mother in the OR as support; my arms were not restrained and once she was born my head was placed on a pillow making it easier to cuddle with her.
For sure as OTF said, don't get too attached to a plan, approach it as this is your "ultimate" and be happy with getting things as close to that as you can--but ultimately the only thing that really matters is that baby coming home with you

Shannon, I was so excited to hear of Molly's arrival. Yay!! She's beautiful! Thanks for sharing what worked for you. Those are great ideas and I'm glad to hear you were able to get many of them, in spite of your spinal not taking. Ugh.

[shannon0218]

Lisa, I'm looking forward to hearing you announce a nice bfp
Like OTF, I have to admit, I found my c-section to be quite empowering. My doctor played a huge role in making it that way, but that is one advantage to *planning* your c-section, you have the luxery of hand picking a doctor who will work with you for what you want. As you know from the loss boards, getting pregnant and staying pregnant was quite the miracle for me and you see your definition of the "ideal" change as time moves on. In the beginning I wanted the midwife attended home birth, no U/S's, etc. With Molly's pregnancy I completely surrendered to a medicalized pregnancy. I decided that the only thing that would represent a failure was not bringing her home with us. By surrendering to what I couldn't really control I gained control in many other areas. So while I injected myself with heparin and took far too many drugs and had WAY too many U/S's during the pregnancy, I found I acheived the birth I wanted, my babe was healthy and screaming, she settled just as soon as she was placed on my chest, I co-slept with her while in the hospital and now at home. I unfortunately didn't produce any milk for her, but I feel comfortable with lots of skin to skin contact with her and I for one can't even imagine having a deeper bond to my baby. I feel so badly for women who beat themselves up over having a c-section. I still sometimes wish I could have given birth vaginally--but then I stare at Molly for a while and realize that the only thing that really matters is that she's here for me to hold and love.

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by LisaG

Well I have to admit Kim that when we first "met" here, your intensity & passion disturbed me at times. But it also made me look at things I really needed to look at, and sometimes it takes big energy to get me to do that, especially when I get caught up in being "right" . When I was first coming to terms with the possibility that I'd need a c/s you were the first person I'd ever heard talk about what a healing experience it was for you. It gave me brainlash because until then the only women I thought were ok with their c/s were those who didn't know any better. In my book, you "knew better", and you were still ok with it. Not only ok with it but the joy you experienced from it was amazing to me. How could the antithesis of a peaceful homebirth be a joyful experience? Was it possible that MY birth experience could be joyful and sacred even if it involves hospitals and surgery? I am grateful to be able to answer yes to that.

I'm realizing more and more that birth comes in a variety of packages no matter what route you choose. It is unpredictable by nature. We do the best we can do and I think we do ourselves a disservice to get locked in to only one model being the "ideal". I look forward to seeing your website!

As for the cord clamping info - I found it! http://www.cordclamping.com/dunn72a.pdf It's from 1972, but has some interesting info as well as his protocol.

Lisa

Thanks for the link! Also thanks for saying what you did because I know I often come across online as harsh. I know in many of my discussion with you, I would look over them and think, that Lisa must hate me. But my real concern was for you and your future offspring. I also didn't want you to build all your hopes and dreams into one event (birth) that might not turn out as you had dreamed it would be. Having personally experienced that without knowing my condition, it was devestating. I don't want other women to feel guilt or shame over something that they really may not have control over.

I felt raped by my first cesarean and what took place in that OR. I also felt torn down by those in the "natural birthing" community whenever I said I had a csection and why. Even with valid medical reasoning, I felt less then, not good enough, a failure, not motherly enough. I read thoughts of other mothers on blogs, forums and internet groups that place this huge amount of blame on themselves because they ended up in an OR or they blame the "medical establishment". Mostly its a combo of both, and often time that kind of judgement and blame on oneself is not even warranted. I've said it time and time again, not everyone wants to squat in her living room UC or with a midwife and have babies -- that was something I had wanted, it was something I had judged women for not wanting, and the cosmic universe taught me a lesson. Why me? No clue really but I am glad to have learned it, even in a painful way.

[shannon0218]

Well said Kim, when I decided with my doctor to plan a c-section delivery I was terrified to even tell anyone on my due date thread for fear of being dressed down for not even trying to have a vaginal birth even though it would be against the odds. For me it was very much like the struggle Melixxa is having right now, with planning the c-section I could make it what I wanted/needed it to be. If I tried for a vaginal birth and failed I'd likely end up with a general and an emergency c-section. For me at least, it was much easier to cope with the devil I knew.

[melixxa]

I thank you all for your replies. It really is a struggle when the personal becomes political, or vice versa. That is to say, my decision about how and where to birth is completely clouded by the issues swarming around homebirth and women's loss of options nowadays - now that hospitals are advocating against VBACs or demanding the kinds of interventions that usually make them unlikely to be successful. I have been such a strong proponent of homebirth and natural childbirth that I feel like a traitor to myself for even considering going the hospital route - even worse: an elective repeat c-section.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I am meeting my new OB this week. He comes highly recommended from the OB (whom I LOVED) who delivered my first baby - she left the practice. In fact, everyone from my doula to my midwife to my therapist to complete strangers sings his praises. I will have a better idea after I can talk to him about options.

All I know is, I toured the hospital where I would be admitted and I can say for a fact: There is no way I could ever VBAC there. I don't know how women do that in such a setting. I am in awe of women who do. Soooo medicalized. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't see any middle way between natural birth at home and surgery. I just know that I cannot labor and deliver in that environment. I know that I tried it once - albeit under bad conditions - and I know it won't happen for me the second time around, either. I just wish I still had my 100% faith in the natural birth process working, which I had the first time. Until we had to transport, it did not occur to me for an instant that the homebirth would not be a homebirth. I laughed at the idea of packing a hospital bag "just in case."

If I do decide for the c-birth, I am wondering: What are my options for making it the way we want? Last time around, my midwife, my doula, my sister and my partner were all there, making certain that my baby was brought to me as soon as I entered Recovery and that he could go to the breast right away. That was the most important thing, I guess. But there are certainly many other, small things I'm not thinking of right now and may not think of later. My partner knew from the get-go that our son was not to leave his sight. When you opt for a c-section, how much leeway do you have in deciding these things?

I know a lot will depend on my OB and what we hammer out together, but I am wondering in general how others of you have been able to make your c-births optimal experiences.

[its_our_family]

melixxa-- This is a struggle I'm all too familiar with. I was VBAC with Bryce until 6 days before he was born. I waled in to my OB and said, Dr Buchanan I want a repeat c/b. It was the hardest but somehow easiest decision I have ever made.

I had severe dounts in my mind. NOt of safety but of motives, situations,the possibility of a c/b happening anyway, and a lot of other things. I just went through every concern or wondering I had and wrote down how I Felt.

Might seem like "bad" advice but if youa re really struggling with the decision and are afraid outside influences "vbac" boards and even c/b boards are clouding your judgement. take some time off from them. REalize your fears and tackle them head on. Plan your VBAC if you want and always realize you CAN change your mind. Most OBs aren't going to say no you can't have a repeat.

Bryce made my decision final. I dilated to almost 3 and was effaced a fair bit and 4 days later I was closed up tight. That happened 2x. Bryce went from just about dropped and on my cervix to floating high to the point where the ob was afraid to have my water break for fear of prolapsed cord. Things change so fast.

As for knowing what you do want and don't want, write it down. Think back to your last birth. What was good and what was not so good. Trust me, the women here will give you plenty of ideas

[OnTheFence]

Melixxa, I wanted to comment on some things you said. Also my Cbirth plan is somewhere in this thread. Take a look at it!

<<I don't know how women do that in such a setting. I am in awe of women who do. Soooo medicalized. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't see any middle way between natural birth at home and surgery. I just know that I cannot labor and deliver in that environment. I know that I tried it once - albeit under bad conditions - and I know it won't happen for me the second time around, either. I just wish I still had my 100% faith in the natural birth process working, which I had the first time.>>

I was wondering if some meditation might would change this for you or some other type of therapy. You say there is no middle ground because of it being medicalized, is that because you would want an all natural birth and think that VBACing in a hospital is contrary to that? Or are you in some way, fearful of VBACing and using the interventions to cope and then that would really go against your beliefs?
When I thought about VBACing I knew I would go to a hospital and do it. I pretty much knew that when the pain got bad I would get an epidural. I have read all about them and have read conflicting medical evidence on the hinderance/slowing down of labor. Also, I knew that by having one in place should a csection be necessary my pain management would already be in place. Besides a few homebirthers, all the others I know who had successful VBACs had them in the hospital with epidurals. Most waited until 4-5 cm to get them and did not have labor augmented with pit. One woman was induced, but her labor was short (4hrs with a short pushing stage) and she was already dilated. They seemed happy with their outcomes and their VBACs.
However if you somehow have doubt that you can birth vaginally in that kind of enviroment, I know that can create a mental block which could just throw a monkey wrench into the whole process. Most the mamas I knew who VBACed were pretty mainstream and easy going about medical intervention in one way or another.

<<<If I do decide for the c-birth, I am wondering: What are my options for making it the way we want? Last time around, my midwife, my doula, my sister and my partner were all there, making certain that my baby was brought to me as soon as I entered Recovery and that he could go to the breast right away. That was the most important thing, I guess. But there are certainly many other, small things I'm not thinking of right now and may not think of later. My partner knew from the get-go that our son was not to leave his sight. When you opt for a c-section, how much leeway do you have in deciding these things?>>>

I had a lot of leeway with my last csection and it appears I will get the same this time around (even more so). I've had a lot of leeway with this pregnancy, but its my third and because I am having a planned csection well before my due date, my doctor is very accomadating. Besides my ultrasounds, I've not had a lot of medical intervention during my pregnancy or testing. (unlike my last) I am not even doing the glucose test.

I am one of those people who is all in favor of the scheduled csection before labor begins. I believe it is safer (research tells me this) and I believe it is emotionally better for mothers. Afer having an unplanned, emergency csection I was relieved to have had a major role in picking the day, doctors involved, nursing care, and obtaining the things I wanted for the birth. Every request I had was met. Also, because of my "control" issues, I also did not have any drugs in my IV that caused mental confusion, sleepiness, etc. No mind altering drugs. I also requested Zofran over phenegran for nausea if it was needed. I also held my baby on the table and recovered in a L&D room. We were seperated maybe 15minutes total. The time went by quickly as I was running my mouth. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. if the birthing plan doesnt answer it for you or its not elsewhere on this thread.

[its_our_family]

I agree with OTF on c/b before labor starts. Actually, I think if I would have gone into labor I would have tried VBAC. So, I'm kinda glad it didn't :LOL

So, here i sit. Dh had a vasectomy 2 weeks ago. We have ONE moment of bad planning 5 days before his snip job and....af is late. I'm giving myself another 3 or 4 days before I officially freak out!

[eilonwy]

Megan--

I've been thinking about my next birth. I had an emergency c-section with BooBah, which was a complete shock to me. Still, I found it to be a very healing experience. My son was born after a horrific labor, it was very traumatic for me despite the fact that it was a vaginal delivery. I had a much easier time with the c-section, a *much* shorter recovery and a much more relaxed post-birth experience.

So I really would like to have a VBAC, if the chances are good that it will succeed. I can only imagine that a section after labor began would be really depressing for me, so I'd really like to know one way or the other going in. I dunno yet. Anyway, my next birth is probably a long way off so I guess it's not a real big issue right now.

[LisaG]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

Thanks for the link! Also thanks for saying what you did because I know I often come across online as harsh. I know in many of my discussion with you, I would look over them and think, that Lisa must hate me. But my real concern was for you and your future offspring. I also didn't want you to build all your hopes and dreams into one event (birth) that might not turn out as you had dreamed it would be. Having personally experienced that without knowing my condition, it was devestating. I don't want other women to feel guilt or shame over something that they really may not have control over.

Oh no, I never hated you but I did have moments of stubborness and determination to prove you wrong . What I found most helpful and supportive was the recognition that you had been where I am/was. You wanted a homebirth as badly as I did. So it was easier to hear you because you were talking from experience. Not only that, but we had similar uterus challenges. So yes, sometimes you're harsh and sometimes you grated on my nerves, but I also know that I need to listen to what you have to say. I may not agree with everything, but you have been and are a wonderful teacher to me.

It's amazing to me how much I had built around having this "perfect" home birth. I still struggle with it, but it's so much easier than it was. I'm a lot more trusting in the fact that for some reason this is my path and I can fight it or I can surrender to it and accept that growth that comes from it.

Melixxa, I can related to a lot of what you've said. I am grieved by the politics of birth. It bothers me that birth has become so medicalized and so far from how I believe we were designed to give birth. It bothers me that by having a c/s I am tipping the scales. BUT we have c/s because sometimes they're necessary. And I can still be an advocate for natural birth and home birth and women tuning in to what THEIR best choice is, which might be a variety of things including a c/s. I too wonder how women can manage to have a vaginal birth in the hospital. And yet they do. I don't know if I could vaginally birth laboring on my back in a bed, with nurses in and out, and monitors hooked up, etc., etc. I don't know what choice I'd make in your shoes, and it doesn't much matter. I think OTF had some good suggestions for writing things down and helping yourself get as clear as possible in your decision making.

Well, work calls. Shannon - I too look forward to the BFP

Lisa

[tammylc]

OTF - I'd love to see the Cesarean Goddess website become reality! I know when I was preparing for my c-s (scheduled c-s for breech presentation, for those who don't already know my story) I found the lack of information online to be really frustrating. There are basically two types of information to be found when you google for cesarean section - 1) how to avoid a c-section and 2) how to have a VBAC. What I really needed was "So you have to have a c-section - here's how to make it as good a birth as possible." Thank goodness I found this thread on Mothering, since you all helped me find that path.

[its_our_family]

Sign me up for a CG website too

So, af is late....still.... I'm waiting....

[LisaG]

Originally Posted by tammylc

What I really needed was "So you have to have a c-section - here's how to make it as good a birth as possible." Thank goodness I found this thread on Mothering, since you all helped me find that path.

I particularly like these links for that very reason:

Planning a Good Cesarean
Planning Your Cesarean

Lisa

[shannon0218]

so Megan, any word yet from AF??

[its_our_family]

Originally Posted by shannon0218

so Megan, any word yet from AF??

DO you see my sig :

I'm so freaking nervous...like completely freaked out at the idea. And now.....queasy. It started about 2 hours ago....

[shannon0218]

Oh Megan, I'm sorry , she's visiting with me right now, I'll send her on over when she's done with me--of course I'm a little worried myself, all I really had was one day with VERY light bleeding--I was kinda expecting a very heavy period for my first one after pregnancy

[its_our_family]

My second af after pg was WAY worse than the first...be careful what you wish for :LOL