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Csection Support Thread April 2005 (cont discussion from March) - Page 9

post #161 of 424
Thread Starter 
Shannon,

I too agree with your post. I didn't feel that way after my first birth but the more I learned about Mullerian Anomalies and began to realize how lucky I was to have had a healthy, full term baby in my arms. I put myself at risk trying to get a vaginal delivery by having an ECV for my breech baby, instead of listening to my gut that something wasn't right.

After multiple miscarriages and adopting a "difficult" baby, I was shocked, thrilled and cautious when I discovered I was pregnant with Jack. I had nightmares about my upcoming csection with him, I even told the dreams to my OB at the time. I believe on one support thread I shared that the dreams entailed me having my csection with him in a cemetary on a slab of concrete. Often in the dream they cut the baby out of me, and right beside me was a grave dug. Talk about anxiety. However I meditated, and had a birth plan and I had a doctor who was willing to make this a positive experience for me. The bottom line for me when I walked into that hospital was to have a healthy baby. I didn't take drugs for 11 weeks and puke for over 30 weeks to come home empty handed. I had a highly medical intervention pregnancy -- however I did it "my way" and with full knowledge of what I was doing. In that OR when my son was born it was a healing experience. I felt empowered. I had given birth and it was pain free and beautiful.

With this pregnancy, I have had no nightmares about going into that OR. Just happy thoughts. I will meet my baby in a little over two months and that is exciting. I have a doctor who is working with me to give me the best birth experience that *I* can have.

Kim
post #162 of 424
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
Shannon: I do understand what you're saying about a healthy baby, and of course I'm happy that both my babies are healthy. It's the usual rider of "that's what counts" that I have trouble with. It is the most important thing, but it's not the only thing. I still try to work on the "I gave birth" part of things, but I don't seem to make much progress. To me, birth seems to be something a mother should actually be involved in somehow...

I'm glad I've come here and read about other women's experiences. Before I found this board, I'd never even heard about women being able to be with their babies right after a section. I got to "hold" (with my hands and arms all taped up and stuff...my husband actually held her) precious Emma for about 10 seconds (long enough for one picture) before they took her away again.
Storm,
Birth to me is a process. Its not all about pushing a baby through your vaginal cavity. It took me a long time to realize that (five years I guess). I needed to feel involved in the planning of my csection, that is why I found a provider really to cooperatively work with me. I didn't feel I was just getting lip service. I was involved in everything, including during the birth when they couldnt get my son out -- they asked me if they could use a vacuum or forceps and I wanted them to use a vacuum. Nothing that happened that day didn't have my hand in it somehow.

Should you ever find yourself in need of a cesarean again, planning and open dialogue with your OB can make a huge difference. Even in hospitals that have recovery areas can be challenged by the OB. You can plan and arrange to recover in a L&D room. This may take a little more work on the Staffs part, but it can be done. I honestly wasnt away from my last baby for long. I was able to hold him on the table, and then my husband went with him to the nursery. I was in the recovery room (an L&D room) 10-12 minutes later and once I was situated in the bed and my vitals checked they brought my baby to me. The plan is the same for my current pregnancy.

I hope you can find some healing in your journey! Many of us have been there.

Kim
post #163 of 424
Thanks...quite a lot, really...

I suspect this one will also end up with a section. I'm talking to my OB and he's at least willing to look at an attempt at VBA2C. But, my daughter was 10lb., 2oz, and he's very hesitant about trying with a large baby. (My son was only 7lb., 12oz., but he had a different father than these two.) Plus, there's always the chance that this one will also end up in a breech position. I have no idea why my first two decided to do their last minute gymnastics and get all turned around, so I don't know if this one will do the same.

I will continue to talk to my OB about how to handle it if I have another section, particularly about having the baby with me while I recover. I don't know how much he can override the idiotic policies at the hospital, but it's worth a try. The hour plus in recovery last time was the slowest hour of my life!

I have a former co-worker who told me about how positive her two c-section were, and I've tried to cultivate that viewpoint, but I don't seem to be getting very far. Even thinking about my first one - 12 years ago - makes me feel depressed and angry and very much like a failure. And, I don't find that being conscious for the process is a big improvement! Every slight tug that I feel makes me want to vomit. However, at least that way, I can have my husband with me....that helps a lot! And, at least there isn't a 3 baby cap on c-section moms anymore.
post #164 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
I have a former co-worker who told me about how positive her two c-section were, and I've tried to cultivate that viewpoint, but I don't seem to be getting very far.

Don't force yourself to feel good about it. I was wathcing the movie "The Incredibles" for the 30th time today (ds1 is sick) and in one place this little lady says, "I don't think to the past, it distracts from the now." It is totally true.

You know it sucked my first baby was born by c/b. I stopped thinking about it once I got pg again. I couldn't. I learned from it. I figured out how to make THIS birth better. I learned how to make THIS birth work for me.

It sounds kinda depressing but you don't ever HAVE to be ok with your births. You can go thorugh out your entire life saying, It sucks my babes were brought into this world this way. BUt at least by taking steps now you can make it birth that works. That is the most loving you can make it. A birth that you can look back on and say, This was a good birth, not perfect, but still good.
post #165 of 424
Storm Bride, I agree with Megan above, don't force yourself to be okay with it, it's definitely alright to want what you want and work towards the goal. I guess I think of it more as a plan A, plan B thing-especially if your OB is fine with a trial of labor.
I do however strongly suggest making a birth plan for a surgical birth and going over it with your doctor, well before "the big day" My personal feeling is that a lot of the trauma that accompanies many surgical births is the feeling of being stripped of any control (at least that would be a HUGE one for me) I technically had the option of being induced and attempting a vaginal birth, the issues for us were 1) I was on an extremely high dose of heparin because we did detect a clot in the cord during the pregnancy--so one way or the other, I had to be induced and have a very scheduled birth as I needed to be taken off blood thinners for at least 12 and preferably 24 hrs or the risk of hemorage was significant. 2) We didn't want me off thinners for too long as risk of a clot in the mother is highest in the first little while pp-therefore, we really didn't want to risk at 36 hr labor or anything like that. 3) My right hip kept dislocating which left us with only one really good position for laboring-hands and knees--which is great, but my knees are in worse shape than my hip :LOL 4) Early inductions do have a high failure rate and recovery from a failed induction resulting in a c-section is much harder than a planned surgical birth (from what I'd heard)
My OB and I chatted about things and I went back and forth between wanting a vaginal birth and succumbing to a surgical birth. Then she deliberatly booked my appt as the last one of the day and told me a few days in advance that I had all the time I needed, and together we'd work out a birth plan-so she asked me to come with a list of what I wanted.
I had tons of stuff on my list everything from wanting my husband and my mother in the room to wanting dh to cut the cord to delayed cord clamping. We then went through the list-of 23 requests I'd only made 3 that she felt couldn't be worked with. Then we went through the list and I told her what ones were most important to me--as in--if she has to make a choice at the last minute of which one of my requests to preserve, she would hopefully be able to choose the more important one. I'm glad we did this because my spinal never actually took so I felt everything--so anything that was going to extend the amount of time I was on the table got dumped! But, she knew how important my never leaving Molly was and how important it was to me that dh be with me-so she never pushed a general on me (I did however have a nurse standing behind me and everytime I jumped in pain she would whisper "Oh Shannon-please take the general!!") My arms were never restrained and I was propped up a little on a pillow to make it easier both to see and to hold my dd when she was handed to me--and yeah, I got to hold while she was all gooey and wet-that one mattered to me for some reason. After the first cut, my drape was lowered all the way so I could watch-so I saw her from the moment her little head surfaced My dh was snapping pics (if you click on Molly's link in my sig and then click on "I'm finally here" you'll see pics of her being pulled out)

I guess I'm just wanting you to know you do have options to make a c-section a joyfull birth--but they NEED to be planned ahead-which is why I'd suggest a plan A plan B approach. I am also a firm believer that when you approach your OB with the attitude of "I know all of what I want may not be possible, but I'd like your help to create the most wonderful experience I can" I think many women make the approach more all or nothing-as in "if I can't have my VBAC, nothing will make me happy and you'll have to fight me every step of the way" Many docs are pleasantly surprised when a mom approachs the situation assuming the doc will do all they can to help them experience the best birth possible. I know it was because I treated my nurses and doctors with respect and took the time to understand why some things did need to be done a certain way that I was allowed to break the rules in MANY other ways. Like Kim was saying in response to someone else (sorry, can't remember who) often when the mom arrives at the hospital in a transfer from a birth centre or a home birth, they treat the doc as the enemy--the person who's going to talk them into all sorts of things they don't want. Often they treat them like they don't know a thing about childbirth-this part floors me-I actually spoke with a mom who was forced into a surgical birth because of low fluid and the midwife felt the baby was in danger. Her friend kept telling her that the stupid OB doesn't know a darn thing about childbirth and strongarmed her into an emergency c-section--but ya know what--this woman delivered a 3lb 11oz baby at 37 w gestation, he was shrivelled up, dehydrated and all his skin was peeling off--this was a case where the OB really did save the day. Another MDC mama who I know personally, was planning a home water birth, she went overdue and at 2 weeks overdue suddenly her NST's weren't looking good and her fluid was dropping, she was admitted to induce and monitored all night, in the morning the OB strongly suggested a section--this baby had passed meconium likely weeks and weeks ago-he was completely green, mom's uterus was stained green and he was immediately whisked off to the NICU. She was so fortunate that her midwife was actually allowed to stay for the surgery and she told her matter of factly--yeah, women have been giving birth at home since the beginning of time--but we used to expect a certain number of women to loose one or two children during childbirth. The midwife told her-if he'd been born at home-he would not have lived. Anyway, it really bugs me when people trash OB's-sure there's some lousy ones--there's lousy midwives too, but I'm guessing during their university career, they likely learned at least something about childbirth.

Well, I guess that turned into a rant at the end, but strongly consider working with your OB now to decide what will go on if you DO need another c-section.
post #166 of 424
Thread Starter 

About OBs. approach and achieving the birth you want

Maybe this goes without saying but I think when planning a surgical birth this is often overlooked. Provider is everything. Your relationship with your provider is everything when planning a hospital birth. If there is no trust there than in the end you will be unhappy with the outcome.

I find that women, who even plan vaginal births, don't ask key questions nor facilitate a relationship with their OB to get a good handle on what the OB expects from you as a patient and what they are willing to do to accomadate their needs. I think also you have to keep in mind the perimaters (sp) they have to work in, and navigate the road to your own benefit. Hospital policies can be overlooked, the rules can be broken and all it takes is for your doctor to say so. If your doctor says "This is hospital policy" then they probably don't care to assist you in the matter or want the responsibility of giving you a no laid on the hospital and their staff. For instance: Photography and videotaping is not permitted at the birth, vaginal or cesarean at the hospital I am going to -- yet the doctor has said its fine and that what she says goes. Its hospital policy to administer eye ointment, however my pediatrician overrides them in saying "no its not needed". Standard surgical proceedure is to have your arms strapped to the table -- something else your doctor can override as well. It may be hospital policy for you to recover in a recovery area, but your doctor can override that.
I think at times its difficult to determine if you are given lip service by your provider, I know for me I feel like that my OB is going to do her best in providing me with the birth I want and accomodate my requests. I am working within her confines of her own rules. I am doing little to put her at risk. I am willing to compromise on certain things to have others.

I have more to say but I have to take two little boys to preschool.

Kim
post #167 of 424
Well said Kim, that's what I was going for, but it was 3:30 in the morning here!
post #168 of 424
The OB I'm seeing is the same one who did my last section. I did feel bullied ito that one (although I probably would have ended up having one, anyway), but I think that's because I didn't stand up for myself. When I found out that Emma was breech and my GP said it would have to be another section, I just fell apart. I honestly think a true emergency would have been easier to take.

I've already accepted that this one may very well be a section, but even if it goes to a scheduled one, I already feel a bit better about it than either of the previous ones. At least I know that I've looked into things, and am working for what's best for me. I don't really have a birth plan, but I do have at least a few things I'm going to put into writing. I won't be induced, for example. I've never heard anything good about induction, and the women I've known who have been induced have all ended up with sections, anyway.

I don't know if my doctor can override hospital policy or not. I'm in Canada, not the US, and I honestly don't know what guidelines our medical services operate under. I'll try to find out about that, but I don't even know where to start looking! Even if this one's another section, I think it will be better than the previous two...and some of that is because of this forum. Thank you all so much!
post #169 of 424
Storm Bride, I'm in Canada, actually I think it often makes things easier, our hospitals tend to be a little more mother and baby friendly than most of the US hospitals--our doctors are also not quite so worried about being sued--I mean it happens here, but not the way it does in the States.
Where are you in Canada, if I can help at all, just let me know.
post #170 of 424
I'm in North Vancouver, BC.

I honestly haven't found the hospitals here to be all that mother and child friendly. My sister was verbally abused by her OB nurses because she "whined" about the pain. She tried to tell them that she was afraid her chlamydia scars were tearing, but they wouldn't listen to her, and she had a horrible first birth. With that same baby (her first), they kept doing blood tests on him, and wouldn't say why. It turned out that some of the nurses were convinced she had done drugs during her pregnancy - because she has tattoos - and were trying to find evidence that she'd addicted her son.

When her twins were born, the little girl was taken to BC Children's Hospital after an emergency section (the boy was born vaginally, then the girl presented badly, and was turning blue) to monitor her for brain damage due to oxygen deprivation. My niece spent over a week basically all alone in a "special care" nursery...even though they admitted to my sister that there was nothing they could do even if they found anything, and that they would be doing tests later that would show the damage. Her poor twin was depressed, and I'm sure my nieces was, as well. The community nurse who came to see my sister read her the riot act for not having been to see the baby...my sister had three kids, no car, and had just had a c-section!

When I had my son, a nurse brought him to me for feeding and told me to "hurry up - there are other babies here, you know". This was because I was post-section, and recovering from general anaesthetic - I couldn't even get onto my side to try to breastfeed!

Whoops...bit of a rant there. But, I'm not overly impressed with how mother, baby & birth friendly our hospitals are.
post #171 of 424
Wow that sucks!! I think I'll pop in and thank my amazing nurses in my little small town hick hospital!! You know, it's never too late to switch care providers, if this one is unwilling to push for what you want. I know my OB handpicked my nurses as ones who were keen on doing things more naturally.
post #172 of 424
I'm not going to switch my OB. He's a good guy, and from all accounts, he's the best OB in my area. But, the nurses I get will be whoever is on duty on the maternity ward...and I haven't found many of them to be worth much, unfortunately. Maybe I'll get a VBAC, and be out of hospital in a day, instead of three.
post #173 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
Storm Bride, many of us have recovered with our babies, my baby never left mine or my husbands arms and the only time I was separated from my husband was the trip back to my room, I took a different route than him.

I hope as well that you can come to terms with your c-sections, I have to say, in my opinion a c-section birth is indeed a birth, it's a little different, but I still gave birth to my baby

To be honest, the at least you have a healthy baby doesn't bother me in the least. After 3 miscarriages and a pregnancy where I injected myself with heparin twice a day and took countless other drugs to keep her alive and get her as far as 37 weeks, I gotta say, the only failure in my mind would have been not bringing her home. Perhaps I'm just totally missing something but after the losses and knowing people with beautiful births that produced still babies, I really do fail to see the problem with "at least he/she's healthy" I can get people being pissed about "at least her head is round" but for me at least the big goal was to hold my dd.
I found this really offensive. I had a scheduled c-section for breech when I was planning a homebirth, and I found it incredibly dismissive of me and my feelings when people would say things like "you're going to have a baby, that's all that matters." I had invested a lot of emotional energy into planning my birth, and was really looking forward to labor and delivery. I didn't get to have any of that. Of course I was thrilled that my little boy was born healthy and happy, but I also mourned the loss of my envisioned birth. I almost smacked my coworker who, upon hearing that I was going to have to have a c-section (after spending a week doing everything under the sun to get him to flip, said "C-sections are no big deal, I've had two." Well, bully for you, but it's a big deal to me.
post #174 of 424
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tammylc
I found this really offensive. I had a scheduled c-section for breech when I was planning a homebirth, and I found it incredibly dismissive of me and my feelings when people would say things like "you're going to have a baby, that's all that matters." I had invested a lot of emotional energy into planning my birth, and was really looking forward to labor and delivery. I didn't get to have any of that. Of course I was thrilled that my little boy was born healthy and happy, but I also mourned the loss of my envisioned birth. I almost smacked my coworker who, upon hearing that I was going to have to have a c-section (after spending a week doing everything under the sun to get him to flip, said "C-sections are no big deal, I've had two." Well, bully for you, but it's a big deal to me.
Many moons ago, I found it offensive as well but now I don't. I had planned a natural bradley birth, and was totally disappointed and enraged actually that I wasn't going to get the birth I planned.

Now, I am disappointed that I didn't get the birth of my dreams, but I don't find it offensive when someone says "at least you have a healthy baby". I was lucky and there was nothing I could do that was going to give me a vaginal birth, then or even now. I'm done mourning what *I* wanted. Of course it has been over 8 years for me, and I see there was a bigger plan (by god/goddess or design). I've also come to realize that what I want, may not be what I need. I needed a csection, and I need another one. *I* personally learned a lot of life lessons from the experience and about myself.
post #175 of 424
I'm really not sure what you found offensive. I expressed my own feelings regarding a comment that was being made. I personally have no problem with it and I explained why I personaly have no problem with that statement. I'm not certain whether you bothered to read my post prior to getting up in arms about it, but NEVER, EVER, ANYWHERE did I say that c-sections are no big deal. I did say that I was fortunate and was able to plan my c-section out and that I had a DAMN GOOD EXPERIENCE BIRTHING MY BABY
If you take the time to actually read what I wrote and take it in, you will see that the comment that I have NO problem with is "At least the baby is ok" (or healthy or some version there of) When I hear "At least" I feel that it recognizes that things were not perfect, not everything went as planned, but in the end, you DO have a healthy baby to show for your experience. A couple years ago and rolled and practically totalled my truck. I can assure you that I also did not take offence when my husband said "Geez honey, at least you're ok" Yeah fine hon, I'm ok but I just totalled a $70 000 truck, we're gonna pay in insurance for years--but in the end yeah, I'm ok.
If you doubt which experience is the one that counts the most to a mother-the birth or the process, I urge you to make a visit to pregnancy and birth loss--pose the question "ok, you can have the perfect birth--but your baby dies--or you can have the most horrific c-section experience you can imagine"--I'm gonna place my bets that not one of them would agree to have the good birth but the dead baby. I'm sorry if that sounds terribly harsh, but that's where my experience base lies in this--so yeah, I'm not thrilled that I couldn't deliver vaginally, but there's nothing in this world that would make me put the process of getting my baby here before actually getting her here. If you don't feel that way--that's your perogative and I really don't care, I expressed my opinion that the phrase "At least your baby is healthy" doesn't bother me and why. You frankly have NO right to be offended by the fact that something doesn't offend ME.
post #176 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence
Of course it has been over 8 years for me, and I see there was a bigger plan (by god/goddess or design). I've also come to realize that what I want, may not be what I need. I needed a csection, and I need another one. *I* personally learned a lot of life lessons from the experience and about myself.
I have a lot of respect for that...the ability to find lessons in all this. My first section was 12 years ago, and I don't feel as though I've learned anything from my experiences. The whole thing just depresses me, enrages me and makes me feel like a failure.
post #177 of 424
Hi... I'm a 2 time c-section mom with a Mullerian Anomaly.
I'm just posting now so I can find the thread again later. I want to read the whole thread before adding my thoughts.
post #178 of 424

Hello all...

Hi,

First, let me apologize for breaking up the flow of the discussion here - I'm not sure where to introduce myself, so I guess I'll just do it here.

I have been lurking and reading these discussions for awhile, but was just finally able to register

I have had 2 c/s... the first in March 2002 and the second in February 2005. Thus, as you may figure, I have a 3 year old ds : and a ds that is about 8 weeks old now :

Both c/s came after very long labors (60 hours and 50 hours, respectively). I prepared to go naturally both times, and was fairly well-educated and well-prepared for natural birth (the first time) and a natural vbac (the second time). Despite my best-laid plans and efforts, things did not go as I'd planned either time. I'm sad, to the extent that I did not get to "meet" my babies as I'd hoped to at the moment of their births... However, despite my continued belief that natural birth is best, I am not - and never was - disappointed... I believe that for whatever reason - maybe one I'll never understand - my babies had to be born as they were, and for me, that is a happy thing. They were BIG and healthy, and I was also healthy, despite the extra recovery time necessitated by the c/s. Fortunately, I had great family support both times, so did not suffer greatly.

My care providers and hospital (cnms, same both times) were extremely professional and caring, and never did I feel rushed or railroaded; I felt in control of the situation both times - so there was never a question of having had a "bad" experience - that is to say, I never felt like things were done without my participation and consent. No restrictions or limitations were placed on me or my laboring either time. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, to the extent possible, I accept my c/s's as how I birthed my children. If I go forward to have one more child, it will be a planned c/s, because even if I were to find a provider who would assist me with a vba2c, there is NO WAY I am going through ONE OF MY labors again just to have another c/s!

Anyway, I hope to participate in the discussion, and get to know you!

SKK
post #179 of 424
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
I have a lot of respect for that...the ability to find lessons in all this. My first section was 12 years ago, and I don't feel as though I've learned anything from my experiences. The whole thing just depresses me, enrages me and makes me feel like a failure.
This is not directed at you Storm but I think this is something to discuss for some healthy dialogue. I know for me there was a time I didn't want to look to the reason and the what for -- I was more interested in the blame and why this happened to me. It wasn't until I decided that *for me* there was really no blame. I had a horrific experience -- and I could have had better medical care, but in the heat of it all, I think they were just trying to do their jobs. I made choices, like choosing a "green" doctor and by choosing to get an ECV, instead of trusting that my baby was breech for a reason. I could blame my mother or her OB from twenty something years ago at the time for giving her DES that made my uterus deformed.
For me the lesson was more spiritual. I had to get pass blame and accept my own responsibilty in what happened in that OR. I also had to see that everything is not black and white. My body can't birth babies. Its not that I don't trust birth, its that my body isn't equipped to do it out my vaginal walls. I used to be judgemental of women who had csections by my assessment of either ignorance or choice, or women who had epidurals by ignorance or choice. Then the unimaginable happen to myself. It was actually hypocritical that being pro-choice I would want to hinder or force women to birth the way I think is best.
I wouldn't be here on this thread had I had a vaginal birth, I would most likely be a lurker passing judgement on everyone who posted here and thinking what morons or uninformed you all were. I would be unsypathetic to mothers who had had traumatic birth experiences and would fake happiness for those who sang the praises of their epidural births or surgical births.
I don't think you have to be okay with having a csection. I think if it was necessary however there should be some type of acceptance that it happened and of yourself.
Hope I am making sense.

Kim
post #180 of 424
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiti
Hi... I'm a 2 time c-section mom with a Mullerian Anomaly.
I'm just posting now so I can find the thread again later. I want to read the whole thread before adding my thoughts.
What kind of Mullerian Anomaly do you have?

Welcome to our thread!

Kim
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