Is lying a big sin in your book?

[journeymom]

I'm posting this specifically in "Preteens and Teens" because I'm not thinking about the fantasy-inspired lying that little kids do when they're learning about the difference between fact and fiction.

I wonder if telling the truth, always, is what you expect from your kids. What are the consequences if your child does lie? Do you allow/expect some lying?

I guess I'm also not talking about extreme examples from philosophy class. Like, would you lie to the Nazis about hiding somebody. I'm talking about the day to day issues that we parents deal with: did you clean your room, did you finish your homework, what was your part in this arguement with your brother, why were you late getting home from the party, etc.

It depends on the example, too, I'm sure. Lying about cleaning your room is less consequential than lying about drugs in your bedroom drawer. Or is it? Some here might say that there isn't really a difference, it's the fact that your child lied that is the problem.

Also, is there a difference between your child lying to you and your mate lying to you?

I used the Ms.Cool Shades icon just for the fun of it.

[moondiapers]

we don't tollerate ANY lying. We'd rather have them say that they don't want to answer us. The consequences are loss of my trust. If I can't trust you to be honest, how do I know that you are telling the truth about where you are going? And since I can't trust you are telling me the truth, you can't go. Then trust has to be earned back. Now I don't equate my child telling me that she's cleaned her room, when she's really just shoved everything on the otherside of her bed so that I can't see it from the door, when she hasn't with her not being trustworthy about what she's going to go do with a friend. If she lies to me about her room, I quit trusting her to be honest about her room. The exception to that would be if she started just lying about EVERYTHING.


-Heather

[MarineWife]

I do not tolerate lying either. I expect the truth or some sort of statement along the lines of, "I don't want to answer." However, I do expect some lying. Everyone lies sometime in their lives. The example given above about cleaning the room I wouldn't consider a lie. I would consider that more of a difference of opinion. As far as the child is concerned, she cleaned her room. KWIM? My reaction to the lie depends on the importance of the issue at hand. If my ds lies about brushing his teeth, I tell him that I can tell he didn't brush his teeth and he's not going anywhere until he does. The best way for me to deal with this type of thing is to avoid it in the first place by telling him he has to brush his teeth before he goes out rather than asking him if he has. If he lies about using drugs or drinking or being somewhere dangerous that he wasn't supposed to be, then I would not be able to trust that he would be safe and I would probably have to limit his activities. So far, I haven't had to deal with any big lies like that.

I don't think I treat lies from my child the same as lies from my partner. I take lies from my partner much more seriously. Children are always pushing the boundaries and trying to see what they can and cannot do. They are still learning the rules, so to speak. My partner is an adult and should know by now that honesty is very important in a relationship.

[SagMom]

I do expect the truth, and fortunately this isn't a big issue at our house because I don't deal well with lying.

Ds1 will be 14 in a couple of days and I honestly can't remember him ever telling me a lie.

Dd did once--when she was 8 or 9 --about having cleaned out her pet's cage. When I came into her room later that day, it was apparent that the cage wasn't cleaned. I was VERY upset--not so much about the cage (although we did talk about pet responsibility, etc.)--but that she felt the need to lie to me. I was hurt. Her explanation was simple enough, she didn't feel like cleaning it, so just told me it was already done.

We talked about the options--agreeing to do it later, asking for help in doing it, thinking about how the pet would feel living in a dirty cage, etc. But we talked an awful lot more about how lying can damage a relationship--how once you're known to have a history of lying, people will wonder about everything you say. (I probably over-reacted.)

I have no tolerance for lying from people I'm close to--as I said, it really hurts me because I feel like it's an indication that there's something wrong with the relationship if someone feels they can't be honest with me.

I'm very interested in hearing how others respond.

Oh, and yeah, I'd flip-out if dh lied to me too.

[Coffee Mom]

My Hot Button

Good question because this has always been a hot button for me. I have always told my two daughters that the worst thing they could do is lie to me. I have stressed that the consequences for lying will always be worse than whatever it is they lied about. Kids and even adults make bad decisions in their lives and do stupid things, but I have said, talk to me and we'll talk about these issues, but don't ever lie. Sure my kids have lied about stupid things in the past such as homework being done, but there always have been consequences. My philosophy is, we will never be able to stop our kids from doing dumb things but we can teach them not to lie and be dishonest. Every bad decision is a learning experience. About a yr ago my now 14 yo came home and was acting strange. I asked her if shed been drinking or smoking anything. She came right out and said that shed had 2 beers. Well I wasnt happy about the drinking but I appreciated her honesty. We had a long talk about drinking etc. That doesnt mean she wont drink in the future but she understands better peer pressure and the risks associated with drinking at a party someplace. I did take her computer away for a week for making a bad decision but she knows it would have been alot worse if she had lied about it.
Sorry to ramble, but I think as you raise children, honesty is one of those core values that are so important. Hugs!

[journeymom]

Still thinking about my own answers to this. I hope more people chime in with their thoughts here.

[Marsupialmom]

I cannot say I don’t/won't tolerate lying. There is the motive behind the lie.

I agree about the bedroom issue it could be a difference of opinion.

My brother use to lie to my G-Ma, who he lived with. He would bring home these cakes and said they were free, the store was going to throw them away, et. He bought every single one of them. My G-ma loved them but would not have accepted them or allowed him to bring them home if she knew he was paying for them (they were on the expensive side). The motive behind this lie is far different than the motive behind drinking, drugs, et.

Also lying can be from the child’s/person’s own desperation. It can be that person’s way of saying they need help and understanding and some trust. Lying can be their way of trying not to loose your trust and faith in them. We often do the opposite thing we need to, to gain/get what we need emotionally. Lying could be their way of trying to gain control.

So I would evaluate it closely so we can better handle the situation.

I also do not think Honesty is always what it is suppose to be: When I was in HS I had a principle ask me why I had missed all these classes after lunch. I told the truth. Why ? Because I honestly did not care about what this person thought. I knew I was going to get away with it and there was nothing she could do. My honesty was my challenge to her authority (actually all authority but that is another story). My honesty was actually proof that I was the one in control of the situation. It mocked her and I knew it. So honesty is not always cracked up what it is suppose to be. It can be an F-you also.

[oldcrunchymom]

I have a "thing" about lying. I hate to lie and try not to do it even about stupid little stuff. However, I also realize that truth is often subjective, so I try not to hold my kids to standards that are too high. As far as I know they have not lied to me. If they don't want to tell me something they just say they don't want to tell me and I generally accept that. I think people (including kids) should be allowed some privacy--they shouldn't have to tell you every little thing that they do or think. The important thing is to understand when NOT to lie.

[UnschoolnMa]

It would really depend on why they were lying, but speaking generally our family has agreed that we think lying pretty much sucks. It's a trust/respect issue for me. Fortunately, the children have always been encouraged to speak openly with us even when they've done something they aren't proud of without fear of punishment. That means that they can always tell us anything without worrying about what will happen to them after they've told the truth. That sort of thing eliminates the reason many kids do lie IMO:fear. Even if it was drugs they know that they can tell us and expect help.

Lying just doesn't feel good in my opinion... on either end, be you the liar or the one being lied to. I am honest, and I expect others to be honest with me. I wouldn't be happy at all with a lie from my Dh either. Just ask my ex-Dh... he can tell ya all about it

[Alkenny]

I don't lie, DH doesn't lie, the kids don't lie. Period. We've always been open and honest about everything with our children, and they've never lied to us about anything (to my knowledge).

[Ruthla]

I don't tolerate lying. I've expressed to my kids numerous times that I'd rather hear the truth about something they did "wrong" than have them lie about it.

I really don't know what I'd do if a child lied to me because it hasn't happened- they know the importance of honesty and that God knows the truth no matter what.

[PikkuMyy]

IME, one can only expect honesty when it is rewarded with respect. I tried to be honest with my mother as a teenager but since she didn't believe me or respect my opinion or what I told her, I stopped telling her the truth. My father, OTOH, always treated what I said with respect and therefore I was always 100% honest with him. And I wasn't the world's saintliest teen.

[Red]

It's a matter of trust. If I catch anyone lying to me, I lose trust in them.

Two of mine can't always be trusted to tell the truth. They'll lie about silly things, just to avoid listening to any grief. I know better than to believe them.

[whatever]

this is an issue that I have had to think about in my own life a lot. as a teenager, I would lie all thew time to adults. Mainly because I was in an abusive situation at home, and under pressure to be a 'normal' kid, ie perform academically etc. The pressure of even going to class was too much for me.

I think I started lying as a kid because if I was just myself I would get in trouble at home. Lying became second nature to me.

I hope that my son will feel comfortable enough with himself to not feel like he has to lie all the time.

[journeymom]

Fortunately, the children have always been encouraged to speak openly with us even when they've done something they aren't proud of without fear of punishment. That means that they can always tell us anything without worrying about what will happen to them after they've told the truth. That sort of thing eliminates the reason many kids do lie IMO:fear.

IME, one can only expect honesty when it is rewarded with respect. I tried to be honest with my mother as a teenager but since she didn't believe me or respect my opinion or what I told her, I stopped telling her the truth. My father, OTOH, always treated what I said with respect and therefore I was always 100% honest with him. And I wasn't the world's saintliest teen.

Whatever, I got in trouble for my grades starting in grade school, so that was one more reason to lie to my parents. My situation wasn't as extream as yours, but it certainly hurt to be punished for doing poorly in school. When it would have been more effective to maybe find out why I was doing poorly and get me some help.

I think these thoughts hit the nail on the head. I felt like I had to lie to my mom, and I wasn't even that much trouble. I was relatively "good". But my mom's reactions to every infraction was anger and disappointment. And it wasn't balanced with affection on the other end.

She also expected us to be liers, right off the bat. So when she'd question us about something, it was always with the assumption that we were lying.

Something a lot of parents do, without really thinking about it, is try to catch their kids in a lie. It's more honest, if you think your kid did or didn't do whatever, to simply say, "It looks to me like you did this" or, "I think you didn't do what you were told to do". Don't ask "Did you put your clothes away" when you know they didn't.

I guess I agree that I'd rather my child tell me the truth than lie about having done something wrong. I try hard to maintain my child's trust in me and not abuse it. So that they can feel comfortable and safe being honest.

But I also have to smile at, and with the kids sometimes, when it's really clear they're lying about some silly thing. Then they get this sheepish grin and can't help but admit the truth. It feels so much better than being angry with them for lying once in a while, something I really do expect them to do.

I guess maybe I don't just assume it's all my kid's fault if she lies. I might wonder if I've done something to make it so she doesn't want to tell me the truth. Because that was my own experience.

So there it is. I expect them to lie sometimes and I try to respond calmly with humor. And I don't set them up to lie when I already know the truth. And I try hard to make it possible for them to tell me the truth when there's a problem.

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by journeymom

But I also have to smile at, and with the kids sometimes, when it's really clear they're lying about some silly thing. Then they get this sheepish grin and can't help but admit the truth. It feels so much better than being angry with them for lying once in a while, something I really do expect them to do.

My ds does the same thing. He gets the funny little grin that he's trying to hide whenever he's lying so that I can tell. It's too cute to stay mad at him about the lie (as long as it wasn't anything serious).

Originally Posted by journeymom

So there it is. I expect them to lie sometimes and I try to respond calmly with humor. And I don't set them up to lie when I already know the truth. And I try hard to make it possible for them to tell me the truth when there's a problem.

I don't think anyone is ever always completely honest. If anyone thinks their children or partner has never, ever lied to them about anything, I think they are kidding themselves. Not all lies warrant getting extremely upset. That does not mean that we should accept and condone lying either.

[threeforme2005]

We do not tolerate lies in our house either. My 11 year old doesn't lie to us and has never had a reason to. My 8 year old SD however lies all the time (thanks to her mom...ugh) and I let my DH deal with her when she does. He usually takes away her TV privileges or outdoor time but those punishments don't even begin to phase her. I really don't know how to stop her from lying to us since we only see her on the weekends. Our girls go to a private Christian school and they hear all about how lying is a sin...blah blah blah. My SD says she believes in God and yet sees nothing wrong with lying to us all the time. I feel at a loss most of the time when she does this continuously. Any advice on how to get her to start telling the truth?

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I don't have a teen so maybe my feelings will change but lying is not a big deal in my life. I draw a distinction between general truthfulness and telling a single untruth. I think one can be factual and be untruthful, iykwim.

[journeymom]

Traci, maybe re-read posts #9, #12 and #14. I think ICMama is right, there's a difference between the occasional lie and being a habitual lier. I can speak best about my own experience. I didn't lie for moral reasons, I lied because there was a problem and I needed to protect myself. It was kind of a way to have a little control in my life, when I didn't have much control.

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by threeforme2005

My 8 year old SD however lies all the time (thanks to her mom...ugh) and I let my DH deal with her when she does. He usually takes away her TV privileges or outdoor time but those punishments don't even begin to phase her. I really don't know how to stop her from lying to us since we only see her on the weekends.

It's really sad that you spend the very limited time you have with your SD punishing her. I hope you can find a way to turn things around so that you can all enjoy this precious time with her. One thing you could try is to avoid any situations that set up your SD for a lie. One example I can think of is to not ask questions about things to which you know the answer. For example, if I ask my ds if he's brushed his teeth when I know he hasn't, I will almost always get a "yes." Asking him is a habit I have as a gentle reminder but it doesn't work with my ds. So, rather than asking him if he's brushed his teeth, I have to just tell him that he needs to brush his teeth. HTH