We've been invited to a Bris...

[burke-a-bee]

We've been invited to Bris by my husband's boss. I don't really feel comfortable going. We did not circumcise any of our sons and my husband is uncut as well. If we did go, what should we expect? I am not familiar with any of this so I need your help with what to do and how to handle it. My husband says that it is not that big of a deal and it is a long religious tradition. I am the one squirming at the idea. Sorry, now I am rambling. I just need some advice.

[Stevie]

Since DH is okay with it, send him
I personally couldn't go...

[kxsiven]

I agree with Stevie, send DH if he is OK with it. I could not go. I just couldn't.

[Mommiska]

Originally Posted by kxsiven

I agree with Stevie, send DH if he is OK with it. I could not go. I just couldn't.

Ditto.

[Jessviola]

same here. I couldn't watch that. Especially since it's dh's boss, I'd probably end up getting dh in trouble because I wouldn't be able to handle it. It's bad enough just knowing that this happens, but to be there while it's happening is too much for me.

[Mama2E&O]

I know it is a religious custom but I still would not go and watch. It would break my heart.

[lioralourie]

hi, burke-a-bee

yeah, your hubby could attend, and send your regards. Unless you're friendly with the boss's family, that is. Then I'd probably try to make an effort to attend. It's not an easy thing to be around--I empathize with you.

Speaking as one who has been to quite a few brisim, you could do what I do...eat the lox and bagels, make an appearance, give well wishes, mazal tov to the mother, hang out for the Hebrew prayers (there are lots) then step out of the building at the appropriate time if you need to. But it may not be as awful as you're expecting. Some babies hardly make a peep, and others, well, they do cry mightily. The trained hands of a Mohel (who may do several brisim per day) are much more skilled than most doctors. They apprentice with an older mohel for years. The actual preparation and slicing of the foreskin takes less than a minute, and the baby usually calms down in another 3 or 4 minutes.

It may not sound like it, but I'm conflicted about this, too. I'm speaking as someone raised AP, brother is uncut, etc. When I converted to Judaism (orthodox) I had to come to terms with the idea that circumcism, for Jews is a very special thing (I would never want a non-Jewish baby boy to have to be circumcised, of course). Even if most people on MDC don't believe this, to the Jews, the bris is a meaningful and important mitzvah (commandment) that they need to fulfill to be in keeping with Jewish tradition and Jewish law. It's the physical sign of the covenant between G-d and the Jews. Jewish men are reminded, their whole lives, that their whole selves, indeed their most private parts are consecrated to G-d: to goodness, procreation and to love (not to selfishness, or rape, or perversions or even to pure lust). Sorry to have expanded the topic a bit (a lot...) but I hope it's helpful to try to think of it from this point of view.

[2tadpoles]

Originally Posted by lioralourie

The trained hands of a Mohel (who may do several brisim per day) are much more skilled than most doctors.

And from what I gather, the circumcision they do during a Bris is much different from a medical circumcision. I don't think they remove the whole foreskin, but just sort of cut a small piece out of it? I'm not 100%, though.

[Frankly Speaking]

I can understand your internal conflict about this. You are strongly against circumcision but you also feel you must support your husband's career and maybe even feel some obligation to the boss if you know him well.

However, consider if the boss's daughter was having her genitals stripped and cut away, how would you feel and how would you react? I'm sure the same reaction would be detrimental to your husband's career and offensive to the boss. You should not compromise your ethics when the only difference is the sex of the victim. The best way to handle this is to just decline to attend. If your husband is not bothered by this or if he wants/feels he needs to attend, let him go. It may turn him into a rabid intactivist! :LOL

I have a Jewish woman friend who will not attend bris's. She has been to two and absolutely refuses to attend any more and she is not even an intactivist. I suspect she is not even aware of all of the controversy about this issue. She has a daughter who may bring this problem home. She is dating an Asian man and it appears they will eventually be married so it's a toss-up whose traditions will prevail but I have no doubt "M" will not be there should there be a bris. She gets a sour look on her face and kind of scrunches up her shoulders and a little shake every time the subject comes up.

If you don't want to go, just send your regrets with no other explanation. That's all that is required.




Frank

[Frankly Speaking]

Originally Posted by 2tadpoles

And from what I gather, the circumcision they do during a Bris is much different from a medical circumcision. I don't think they remove the whole foreskin, but just sort of cut a small piece out of it? I'm not 100%, though.

They do remove the entire foreskin. As much is removed as possible and in fact, more is removed than in many hospital circumcisions. There have been so many problems in adult men due to their hospital circumcisions that many in the medical profession have started doing loose circumcisions in an effort to prevent those problems. In reality, all they have done is trade one set of problems for another whole set of different problems.

There is some historical evidence that at one time, the only part that was cut away was the part that extended beyond the tip of the glans so there was no separation of the foreskin and glans. There is also evidence that this practice was ended about 800 AD and replaced with the more aggressive style of complete removal including stripping away the foreskin and removal of the frenulum. I won't speculate whether those stories are true or not. However, there is very little difference in a hospital circumcision and a bris as far as how it is technically performed and the end results.



Frank

[UUMom]

You don't have to watch, and you don't have to go for the ceremony. You can go for the party. I've been to a few brit malah ceremonies and they can be pretty powerful. Many times the baby is held in the lap by the godfather or grandfather etc. Its not a naked baby being strapped down as it screams it's little head off. Usually there are other women gathered around the mother, as it can be difficult for some moms. Some babies cry, some don't. The cutting itself is very fast. I agree with whoever posted that you can step out, or even come later.

But ok, if you can't you can't. A lot of people have a difficult time, even those who embrace the tradition. However, send good wishes and maybe a gift to welcome the baby. If your dh goes alone, I would hope he would say why you aren't, yk? (I'm sure he wouldn't but just throwing that out). It's a special day for them. My boys are not circ'd but some of the most loving AP parents I know have had a Bris for their sons.

[UUMom]

frank, I know you are the king of circ questions,a nd I do appreciate that. But it's not true (not that it matters) that 'more is cut than in the hospital'. It just depends.

[philomom]

No way would I go.

[calngavinsmom]

Not even if I was being chased by rabid dogs could you get me anywhere near that household. There is nothing "beautiful" to me about causing babies pain or harming them in this way. IMHO cutting the genitals of a baby is just wrong, no matter how you try to justify it.

Of course, it depends on how you feel about it whether you attend or not. Noone else can tell you how to feel, just consider your own convictions about it. Myself, I would feel hypocritical if I went based on my very strong feelings about cutting babies genitals.

Take care,
Tara

[loving-my-babies]

oh gosh, I coudln't go. I just couldn't "be invited" to see an innocent child suffer.

[UUMom]

Rabid dogs couldn't get you to share something important with , and/or give support to a Jewish friend? Or would one simply avoid, and not make friends with Jews because you might get invited to a bris?

[loving-my-babies]

Originally Posted by Momma4

Rabid dogs couldn't get you to share something important with , and/or give support to a Jewish friend? Or would one simply avoid, and not make friends with Jews because you might get invited to a bris?

I'm not going to support someone that is hurting an innocent child and cutting off part of his penis. Anyone that does this is not worthy of my support. If I am present, I am saying that what she is doing to her child is ok. IMO it is not, and I will not witness a child screaming and agonizing because of this.

[kxsiven]

I have both jewish and moslim friends(some of them are against circ, some are not).

For me there are two things involved.
1) I view any genital cutting of children as a violation of human rights. It doesn't matter if it is done by American doctor, religious person or mister X
2) I know that religious circumcision is a ceremony taken very seriously by those who believe in it. So I would also stay away out of respect. I know I would start to cry because of what is done to the baby and that would not be very respectful for those who believe in it.

[Kathryn]

Originally Posted by loving-my-babies

I'm not going to support someone that is hurting an innocent child and cutting off part of his penis. Anyone that does this is not worthy of my support. If I am present, I am saying that what she is doing to her child is ok. IMO it is not, and I will not witness a child screaming and agonizing because of this.

[paquerette]

Hmm, I wonder if this thread is crossing the line already, but I just have to wonder... if religion is an appropriate reason to harm a little baby by cutting his penis, is it also an appropriate reason to do other violent things to other humans? :