Meds - can this be done without them?

[BabyOsMommy]

I posted here a while back and then went into denial for a bit and then came back... repeat cycle a few times.

I went to a support group for PPD last night at the urging of my public health nurse. I thought I could just to feel it out. When they asked me to tell my story it seemed like my whole life just came pouring out with a lot of tears. I must have looked like such a nut case. This week has been so rough because my baby has been very sick with RSV and bronchiolitis, and I'm exhausted and drained as it is.

Anyhow, the first thing they wanted to know is if I was on meds, and if I'd been to my family doctor. No and No. I don't have a family doctor and the area I'm in has very few accepting patients and the ones who are aren't known for being very good. They really wanted me to get a family doctor and have a conversation about how I'm feeling. My question is what good will that do if I really don't want to go down the antidepressant route? Can I get well without antidepressants? Let me tell you that I've been on antidepressants before, as I've been in and out of depression for 13years. 3 of them for about a year each. Zoloft, Paxil and then Effexor. Either I didn't like how they made me feel, or they didn't do anything at all for me.

I was really hoping that going to a support group and accepting the help of the public health department nurse would help get me through this "bad phase" until I feel more adjusted to life with two kids. It's especially hard because the weather here is cold and we're housebound a lot. But I don't want to keep yelling at my 2year old and feeling like I'm looking for the next kid free break. I don't enjoy my kids right now and they will only be small for so long, and I feel like I'm missing it.

Do I just sound stubborn?

Thanks,
Annette

[tug]

annette - i may not be the right person to answer this since i'm not sure if i have baby blues, exhausted mama blues (my little one just had rsv too), or ppd. that said, i think trying to get a support community instead of meds first thing seems like a good idea. do you think the group will be supportive of you if you decide to try a med-less route first? could you maybe join a group that is mothers of young children but not specifically a ppd support group? maybe the interaction with other exhausted, overwhelmed mothers would be helpful even if they are not mothers with diagnosed (self- or phys-diagnosed) ppd?

[BabyOsMommy]

I was pretty much thinking the same thing... that having support and knowing that I'm not alone was going to help some and then I'd see what's next. There was one women who is at the almost 1year mark for her little one and she hasn't taken any meds. She is also exhausted, and very emotional and it seemed like people were pushing her to break down and take them. But I'm not sure how they were with her up until this point. Maybe they were very supportive and see something in her that they didn't before.

As far as this particular group being supportive, I'm not willing to say yet. I'm going to go at least twice more while I try to sort myself out and get a really good feel for the group before I make any decisions. One of the facilitators was annoying to me, but I really like the other one, so I'm just going to try to step back for a bit and reflect before I decide either way. Of course I'm having a not so bad mama day today, and had a really good talk with dh last night, and it's Friday so I'll have his help this weekend so I'm particularly optimistic.

[kaydee]

I think there are many things that mamas need to get through PPD. A good support system is key, I think, as is being able to get a complete REM sleep cycle (sleep deprivation can exacerbate PPD to a frightening degree). Most mamas I know benefited from the use of meds during that time; for some medication was less helpful, and I do know a few mamas who did not take meds. I honestly don't know if I would have survived without an SSRI. It helped me tremendously. But other things were critical, too--being able to nap, lots of support from dh and my mom, having people help prepare food for me (and insist that I eat some of it), counseling with a counselor experienced in treating PPD, time off work, allowing housekeeping to go by the wayside.

I hope that whatever path you choose, things start getting better soon.

[EllasMama]

Some people can get better without meds, some can't. You can start by making changes like you mentioned of going to a support group, trying to exercise, etc. You can assess yourself a few weeks after making a recurring change and see if there is any improvement. If you don't need meds, then you shouldn't take them. If you try to make changes but don't feel better, then don't rule them out. If you find yourself thinking glumly, "I know I'd feel better if I..." (exercised, got more sleep, did whatever), but you CAN'T motivate yourself to do so, then meds can help provide the jump up to the level where you CAN start doing those long-term mood elevators. I speak from experience as someone who got so bummed when people said "you should exercise, then you'd feel better" b/c I was just happy if I made it through anything resemling a somewhat normal day. I didn't have nearly enough strength at the time to overcome depression enough to do that.

I was ultra-stubborn and fought taking meds for about a year longer than I should have. In some ways, I "lost" all that time, because I got almost no enjoyment out of it. It hurts particularly to know I missed out on having fun with my daughter. I merely existed. Ironically, I didn't know how bad things had gotten until I decided to start meds. Then when I felt more like my old self again I had a "whoaaa" moment, realizing just how horrible I had been feeling. But like I say, if you can get back to that feeling without meds, then that is great.

Good luck finding what works for you!

Carol

[BabyOsMommy]

Whoa. Thank you Carol for giving me a lightbulb moment where I look at meds a little differently than I did before. Some days I can find the motivation on my own and others I can't so I'm still in the "reassess myself" stage, your thoughts gave my a totally different perspective.

I'm still in a holding pattern, with great days and not so great days. The part of me that's so resistant comes from past experience with them, and the fear that this isn't PPD so much as a life long issue. I've not been truly happy that I can remember for long stretches since I was 13. I know it's PPD because I'm post partum, but there has to be an end to that, then if it's true PPD and not my just being melancholy.

[Jish]

My cousin and his wife had two children. There were a couple years inbetween them. They are about ten years older than I so I was around 18 when he had this conversation with some of the family. It was thanksgiving and his wife wasn't in the room when he was talking about her. He was really concerned because she hadn't been herself in years. Their second child was an infant and he said that he wished that they hadn't had kids because ever since they did she hadn't been the same. She didn't seem to have any enthusiasm about life like she used to. She just seemed to go through her days with such apathy. He said that he really missed her. She had been like that since after their first was born about three years before. He never mentioned depression, nor did anyone else. This was back in the mid 80's and depression was very much still looked upon as a "mental illness." If you think that depression has a stigma now, it was much worse then. It also wasn't as frequently diagnosed and people would just have to suffer. It wasn't as easy to treat because Prozac was just beginning to be used.

It really scared me at the time. I was almost afraid to have kids after hearing him talk about her. She was still functional and could get through her days, but she wasn't herself.

Then, a couple of years later when their youngest was between two and three we were all together he confided that she had finally come out of her fog and was back to her old self. Unfortunately, she said that she felt like she had lost about six years of her life, six important years of her children's youth. It's obvious looking back that she had been suffering from PPD/depression that was never diagnosed or treated. They never had more children.

I tell you this not to scare you, but to note that for some, coming out of the depression isn't easy and it can last for years. Sometimes what starts as ppd just continues on.

As for people pushing meds, I have to be honest and say that I am often one of those people. I was on them two years ago and they changed my life. I didn't realize how bad I was until I was good again. Then, several weeks ago I had to decide whether to keep on like I was, or to admit that I wasn't getting better and things were only going to get worse (I too was cycling though bad days and good days.) It was the good times that made me think that perhaps if I just waited it out I would be fine. Even though I had been on them before, it was a really hard decision to make. Now, three weeks later, I am so glad that I dove in and took them again.

Remember that those who encourage meds have been there. They know what you are going through and how it affected their life in the long run. I hate to say that they can see the situation more clearly than you, but in a way, they can, iykwim. It's hard to know just how bad you are until you are better. For me, the meds make all the difference. It is an amazing change which leads me to believe that there really is a screwup somewhere in my brain when it comes to my seretonin levels. I know that it can get annoying to have people push meds at you, but if they are anything like me, if I can save someone from going through what I went through, you can bet I'm going to suggest meds to them. I know what a huge difference they have made for me, and consequently, my family. My kids deserve to have the best mom they can, and if I'm suffering from depression and anxiety, I'm not the mom they deserve.

Deal with your depression in a way that you feel comfortable, but please don't automatically dismiss meds. Many diabetics rely on insulin because their pancreas doesn't make it correctly in their body. I don't see how that is much different than me taking an ssri for a while because my brain/body isn't manufacturing or using seretonin correctly.

I wish you well and am jealous that you have a support group. There is one in my town, but they require that you be within a year of giving birth. My ds will be 1 yo tomorrow. My ppd is late onset starting at around 10 months. It bums me out that I'm excluded because of that.

[our veggie baby]

I think medication can be helpful and beneficial and of course, if you feel your situation is becoming desperate, there is no need to forego meds for principle's sake know what I mean?

That said, I am leary of drugs in a lot of cases---for children, mamas, people in general who are suffering from something, I think it has to be solidly diagnosed before it is treated first of all...I mean, even if I had cancer, I would get a second opinion/tests etc before I saught chemo or whatever....I am an advocate for trying other methods before going the med route, because if it is not biological, but rather, psychological, or any other outward factor, that will creep through the meds anyway and show itself..know what I mean?

Nutrition is medicine in itself and can help treat SO many things. As crunchy as I am, I kind of poo pooed the nutritionist my sister took me to who suggested that many of my problems could be helped with nutrition alone....but it worked for me....combinations of certain foods, and certain times, with relation to other foods, can do wonders seriously.

For instance, iron is a HUGE thing women lack in a lot of cases. Lack of adequate iron can totally mess with your whole system....psychologically too...so eating iron rich foods helped....
...in comination with protein rich foods, namely soy, which acts as a natural source of estrogen and levels out estrogen low estrogen levels which can lead to depression---don't listen to all the "evil soy" hype, it has not been proven and the benefits so far, FAR outweigh any "potential" "risks"...

...that of course, in combination with complex carbohydrates at every meal, sweet potatoes are like a miracle food for that, but like, whole wheat bread, brown rice, etc...because complex carbs release seratonin which fights depression and helps to keep you calm and less anxious...

...in addition, cutting out most sugar...ESPECIALLY refined sugar, high fructose corn syrup etc....natural sugar can be okay in moderation such as fruit etc, but the white sugars are almost TOXIC to people, especially those who suffer from depression etc....

...in addition, staying hydrated. Seriously, not drinking enough water can completely lead to minor depression because it shuts down a lot of your body's natural functions and your body has to work double hard to expell waste from your kidneys etc....

excersise, excersise, excersise!! You don't have to be climbing Mount Everest...lol but seriously, a nice brisk walk every day really does wonders, as does at least 5 minutes of sun on your hands and face per day to get your vitamin D...sunshine can also work as "light therapy" the idea being that the more exposure to light you get, your brain connects that with positive feelings and releases chemicals and hormones etc...that fight depression...
...that of course, with a STRONG, HEALTHY support group and people who understand you, validate your feelings, people who you trust to share with etc...that is key in my opinion..

Not to say people haven't tried all this and still have a need for medication, I am sure it is true and I am not suggesting that it is a cure-all, or that if you DO try it all and it doesn't seem to help that you are a failure or anything of the sort! I am just saying that things like that REALLY REALLY helped, to the point where I can almost say *cured* my depression which was moderate in my opinion, not severe, but not mild either...

good luck to you and whatever you choose, I hope you find relief and happiness!!

[heldt123]

Originally Posted by Jish

She didn't seem to have any enthusiasm about life like she used to. She just seemed to go through her days with such apathy. He said that he really missed her. She had been like that since after their first was born about three years before. He never mentioned depression, nor did anyone else.(

Oh my gosh, that's me...

I'm one of those people that doesn't even take asprin or Tylenol for a headache and I'm considering meds because I want my life back. It is really hard to get into that mental thinking to actually say that you need medication, I think I'm there now.

I feel soo bad as screamed my lungs out at nothing today because I was soo frustrated as my 2-1/2 year old cried and sobbed "mommy, mommy, mommy." My heart is broken that this is affecting my son, it isn't fair to him, me, the baby, or my husband. I am ashamed that I have let it slip this low...I'm so glad you all are talking about this. Thank you

[Jish]

Jamie, I'm glad that you finally made it to this forum. Depression not only affects us but our families, and in your case, your unborn child also. Keep coming here and let us know how you are doing. Depression is an illness, and not something to be ashamed of. Please talk to your doctor and let us know how it goes. Take the quiz in with you and show it to your doc.

[heldt123]

Thanks Beth, I did take the quiz and it kind of put things in perspective for me. Thanks for the support.

[7in7]

It is so encouraging to know that we are not alone in our journey through depression. I could have written all of your posts at one time or another in the past few years. I'm also a no meds kind of girl so it was very hard for me. I tried Omega3Joy by Greens Plus and it helps lots but not enough for me to be off my meds yet.

K

[water]

Hi Annette, I did get through my PPD without meds, but it took a LONG TIME to go away. I think I started to get better at around 18 months, and felt truly better at 2 years. I did it through exercise, no caffeine, therapy and more therapy, etc. I am glad it worked for me BUT...I decided that with this baby (4.5 months old now) if I got PPD again, I would take the meds. I agree with what EllasMama said, I feel like I lost so much of my ds's first year particularly, and I'll never get that back. I also never wanted to feel as bad again as I did then.

So far, I seem to be ok this time...good days and less good days, but I'm pretty sure I don't have it again.

Oh, I also agree with:
"I speak from experience as someone who got so bummed when people said "you should exercise, then you'd feel better" b/c I was just happy if I made it through anything resemling a somewhat normal day. I didn't have nearly enough strength at the time to overcome depression enough to do that."

No shit! If I had had the energy to truly do all the self care stuff all the time, then I wouldn't have been depressed, right? People really don't understand this if they haven't been there. It wasn't until my depression started letting up after enough time, I guess, that I could really take care of myself enough to pull out of it. Even more so with two kids, I mean I'm not even depressed this time and I still have no time/energy to exercise at this point...

[sarahariz]

Dangers of meds

If you do not want to take medication, that is your choice. You are not just being stubborn!! There are lots of good reasons not to take antidepressant medications (or any psychiatric med for that matter). If you want to just look at one internet site with lots of info about the dangers of SSRI's, try
http://www.ahrp.org/

Here are just a few reasons NOT to take SSRI's (prozac, paxil, zoloft, etc):

1. increased risk of suicide while taking the meds in adults
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
and children
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2004/NEW01124.html
The FDA recently mandated warning labels be put on SSRI's warning about the risk of suicide in children & teens

2. SSRI's are excreted in breastmilk
http://www.breastfeedingbasics.org/c...pressants.html

3. Infants can experience withdrawals from mom taking SSRI'S during pregnancy
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...K8H1g&refer=us

4. You can have severe withdrawal effects when getting off an SSRI
http://www.paxilprogress.org/

5. Studies have shown 80% of SSRI's antidepressant effect can be duplicated by a placebo
http://www.journals.apa.org/preventi...e0050023a.html

6. There are many natural ways to address issues of depression, like taking Omega 3 fatty acids. For ideas. see:
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/ and look at their article index. They also have a practitioner database.

With everything going on for you, I can see how you would be feeling overwhelmed and down. Support from others can be a really big help! Reach out to friends and ask them if they can come over and help you with chores or make a meal for you. As for your PPD group, maybe you can educate them by telling them these reasons why you have chosen not to take meds!

[nmm2112]

I want to further mention the other poster's suggestion of exercise!

I really think I feel much better on days I do something at least somewhat active - Heck, even just stretching and yoga type activity seems to make a difference.

[BabyOsMommy]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies and for sharing your experiences. I have decided to stop overthinking everything for now. I'm not convinced at this point if I'm even still depressed or just experiencing adjustment difficulties. I've have great days and not great days, in fact sometimes it feels like great hours and not so great hours. My previous experience with antidepressants put everything level... I didn't get excited, but at least I wasn't crying all the time. Right now I don't want to give up the joy I feel for at least part of the day.

I stopped going to the support group because I'd arrive feeling okay and leave crying. Mostly because I didn't feel like I belonged. I can function. Most of them can't even function and have people coming to support them daily just to do "normal" daily stuff. I can see where the place is for antidepressants in these women's lives, and I felt guilty because I can function, so why am I crying to them?

I just wanted to say that I definitely do not judge or fault those mama's who feel that the need to take meds for this. I just don't think that they have a place in my recovery. I've been in a place where I needed them to function normally before I had my babies, and I know all too well what that feels like. Having babies wreaks havoc (good havoc, but havoc none the same) on your body and your life.

I do feel like I'm struggling to stay on the edge of a cliff, rather than going over, but I have that fight in me still, and need to do this for me without meds this time. I have a network of close friends and my husband who know me very well, and where I am and will tell me if they think I've lost it. For know, I'm just going to live "as if" things are fine and see where it takes me. The weather is nicer here and I've walked with the kids two days in a row. Just for 45mins, but it felt good. Even when I felt overwhelmed chasing a two year old with an 18lb baby in a wrap. I've planned outings for all but 1day this week. Short 1-2 hour excursions, but if they're planned, I don't cancel because I'm not good a lying about why I'm cancelling and I don't want my IL's to know that I'm struggling. I'm going to get a yoga video from the library.

Well, that was a ramble... but it feels good to write my plan... like I'm committing myself to something so I'll stick with it.

Many s to all who are struggling right now. I wish you much peace and calm as you find ways to cope. I hope your journey with ppd is short and we can all come out of it stronger.

[jamaicamama]

Hi, just wanted to mention that progesterone cream is natural & wonderful for ppd...your hormones get so screwed up after pregnancy that we may feel like we should just bounce back but don't. I started feeling a bit bluesy @ 6 months postpardum & my integrative ob/gyn put me on fish oil & progesterone cream and let me tell you....It put me right back to normal completely naturally.

[mamamelia]

I am dealing with PPD without meds.

One strategy in helping myself deal with and overcome PPD is by allocating one task to myself and sticking to it for as long as neccesary. I would do nothing but that one task everyday. When I felt more comfortable, I would add another task. It has been working for me so far. I started with changing the toilet paper rolls in the bathroom and now I do that as well wash our clothes (my husband had been doing that previously). I was one of those unable to function mothers - never even got out of bed on most days.