Do you plan on GDing your children for the rest of their lives? - Page 2

[maya44]

[QUOTE=our veggie baby]use redirection in our everyday lives with almost EVERYONE in different situations whether we know it or not!!

Some examples:

or say even with your partner....who has their work-related papers, folders, documents, laptop strewn all over the kitchen table where you plan on setting it for dinner in about 10 minutes..."Sweetheart, dinner is almost ready and we were planning on eating at the table tonight...I see you are working but would you mind moving your things temporarily to your desk? I'll help you if you like..." ...oh however you want to phrase it....THAT is redirection, QUOTE]

How is this "redirection" what are you redirecting? You are simply telling him in a nice way that he needs to move his stuff. You can call it what you want but I just don't get how you can call it redirection at all.

As for your other examples, I don't really see that as redirection either.
To me the redirection of GD involves trying to get someone to forget about the behavior they wanted to engage in and do something else. While your store manager exmple would get them to stop just standing around doing nothing to me that is not redirection. You are specifically adressing the problem HEAD ON (as opposed to making the person even forget about what they wanted to do) by saying in effect, you can talk but you need to do something else also.

The "redirecting" a conversation to me does not involve the redirection of GD, but I guess this is a matter of semantics.

[our veggie baby]

hmm, redirecting just means to change the course of an action or conversation...you don't have to completely stop the action...like, hubby doesn't have to stop doing his work at all in the example I gave for me to gently redirect the activity to another location that is agreeable and respectful for and to everyone involved....weird...

Or in terms of a child, if they are kicking the chair and you say something like "chairs are not for kicking, here you can kick this ball instead"...yes, you've redirected them away from kicking the chair, but not from kicking...you just offered an acceptable, respectful solution and redirected them towards it, but they don't have to stop the action dead in its tracks...

People are just arguing semantics now and it is getting ridiculous...lets just agree that some of us disagree...

[nicole lisa]

ICM, how can we make this a safe place for you to work through your thoughts and for us to cntribute? Cause I think it's a discussion worth having.

The minute I started reading the thread I kept thinking of the book Hold Onto Your Kids: Why Parents Matter by Gordon Neufield and Gabor Mate. The book is all about how to stay attached to our kids as they grow; that parenting books that are attachment based or promote a strong parent-child bond, for the most part, all seem to taper off at 4-6 years. There aren't that many that see children past toddler and pre-schooler and fewer still that see children through to adolesence. And what happens to a child who has been attachment parented and then had her parents encouraged to lessen that attachment, often in the name of allowing that child independence and room to be her own person (like attachment prevents that)? They find it through their peers, who, for the most part, don't have the life experience or knowledge to safely guide someone the same age as them through a difficult or dangerous situation. I saw this first hand at a private school I was house parenting at: because kids were dropped off at 14 and stayed until 18 their peers became their family and they took direction and guidance from each other, rather than from adults.

What does this have to do with GD? Well I think of GD as mindful parentingand part and parcel with attachment parenting so I don't see the need for it decreasing as DS grows. In fact, I see it as increasing. I think, despite how tough the infant, toddler and pre-schooler years can be I haven't seen anything yet and that the teen years are when I'm really going to need GD/mindful parenting. As a mama of a boy I'm consious of how quick society encourages him to turn off his emotions, to stifle his fears or hurts and to take unnecessary risks. I see GD and mindful parenting as a way to keep my son connected to his feelings and as a natural outcome of our attachment as a family (DP belongs in this discussion as well) so I don't forsee the need to stop that. I do know that, even though I'm an adult with my own child my father is still there to discipline (guide, lead, give advice) when I need it. Because of his parenting philosophy I feel free to make late night calls when I am worried about something or I don't know what I should do and am looking for help sorting it out. And he still calls me on my stuff when I need to be called on it - like when my brother and I are getting jerky to each other during a visit. I like that, for the most part, we converse as peers, but when I need a sense of place or roots he is able to give that. That's GD to me. It changes as our child's needs change and grows with them.

Does that make sense?

[IdentityCrisisMama]

This is a spin off from something that is not healthy for me and I have trust issues at this point. I don’t want to participate.

[Dechen]

ICM:

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Thanks, Dechen.

Carry on everyone! I'll lurk...

[UnschoolnMa]

Well as my kids turn into adults they would have no reason for me to act as a disciplinarian, gentle or otherwise. (I hate the word discipline anyway, I know it can mean a variety of things, but it always makes me think of harshness.. ick) I guide them gently, discuss things with them, and help them to make their own choices. My job should be to gently ease myself out of that position as they become older and more mature, KWIM?

Gentle, respectful parenting changes as the kids age... and as they become older people I just hope to be close friends that respect one another.

[nicole lisa]

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa

Well as my kids turn into adults they would have no reason for me to act as a disciplinarian, gentle or otherwise. (I hate the word discipline anyway, I know it can mean a variety of things, but it always makes me think of harshness.. ick) I guide them gently, discuss things with them, and help them to make their own choices. My job should be to gently ease myself out of that position as they become older and more mature, KWIM?

Gentle, respectful parenting changes as the kids age... and as they become older people I just hope to be close friends that respect one another.

I like your post. And I think I feel similarly, especially when I read the word "disciplinarian." That made me shudder and that's not what I want to be. So maybe I need to re-think my first post, in light of that reaction.

I guess I want the same things as you and was reading discipline as guidance so when I mentioned my father still offering that to me as an adult what I really think I meant was guidance, active listening and mostly nuturing. But that's all a part of how I'm raising my son and I hope to always be able to provide that.

And you're right, gentle, respectful parenting is always changing as the kids grow.

I need to think some more about the posts here.

[coopnwhitsmommy]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

So, do you not expect to be using GD with your child at some point? Is 18 around that time for you?
So, to you, it’s GD with children and mutual respect between adults?

It's different for everyone every child. I would hope that my child would need less guidance/discipline once they are graduated from highschool in college I hope to have instilled in them the confidence to make their own informed choices, and the humility to deal with situations that may not pan out the way that they had hoped. Personally I was more of an adult than my Mother when I was 15 and didn't need to be "disciplined" but her form of discipline was about control not about teaching. My brother in law was still in need of teaching and guidance on nearly a daily basis until he was in his late 20's. I think it comes down to maturity as to when the relationship changes from "gd" Teacher :Student, Leader: Follower. I hate the word discipline by the way in talking about Gentle Guidance...when I think Discipline I think violence : As to the second part there. As I said above I was more of an adult at 15 than my Mother was at 34...we were not able to have a mutually respectful relationship because I feared her and she did not recognize me as a person. Now that I am married with Children we are able to have a somewhat mutually respectful relationship...although she still struggles seeing me as a person.

I don't know if this is making any sense whatsoever...but let me paraphrase and sum up.

At some point I expect my children to be able to make their own informed decisions without my help or guidance, at some point I expect them to be able to deal with the consequences of said decisions. At some point I expect us to be able to have a conversation as adults with care concern and respect for one another. When that time is I don't know...will it be all of a sudden probably not...it's a gradual shift from parent child to adult equals...it could happen at 13 it could happen at 33 I don't know, but until they are ready to test their wings I will continue to guide them.

[lilyka]

When I think of Discipling, regardless of how it is done, I think of it as helping someone develope self discipline so that they can interact withthe world in a suitable fashion. So hopefully if I do my job right I will have less and less disciplining to do as my children's self deicipline starts to take over. As the learn to be disciplined in each area of life.

I will always be there to help them if they ask but there comes a point where my obligation to see that they have learned how to function and interact with self discipline and are ready to care for themselves has ended and they can take over for themselves. Hopefully there will come a point where they have become disciplined. And unsolicted advice is only going to tell them I didn't do my job well enough or they were too dumb to get it. I fully trust that I am parenting my children in such a way that they will be able to know when they are stuck and come to me if they need help figuring something out knowing that I will help them and not try to fix them. Fixing them is thier thier job. If they need more discipling in a specific area they can seek out someone to help them. if it is me fine if it is someone else fine. But until they ask me (barring something that requires an atourity to act on thier behalf such as law enforcement or mental behavioral helth professionals) I will not step in to teach them discipline.

Ok people like to compare the way Jesus was with the deisciples when applying Discipline. fine, lets. He asked first if they wanted to walk with him and learn from him. they said yes. he wasn't always gentle for that matter ("get thee behind me satan", "oh ye of little faith", "couldn't stay awake for one hour to pray with me?" ) so be careful using this as an example to justify GD but he had thier permission, they were adults and they could take it. they signed up for a schooling and he was teaching them to be disciplined in thier faith. he was sifting and weeding out and refining them for the mission that lay ahead. It would require a lot of discipline! But once more as adults, he had to ask thier permission.

I don't wait for my children to ask my permission beofore I teach them discipline in any area of thier lives. It is my job because I am thier mother. It is the mission of childhood to become a disciplined adult. Discipline is the lesson. not the way it is taught. If I failed to teach them discipline in thier youth I highly doubt they would come to me and ask for my lousy advice in thier adult years. It is not my job to teach my adult children. It is my job to teach my young children. And in the end whatever the lesson looks like it probably comes back to teaching them to be disciplined in some area of thier life.

[UUMom]

I never thought about GD as protecing my children from anything. I am not even sure of the word 'discipline'. I help my kids negotiate the world. We don't punish, but I have my standards of behavior. I guess I just go back to respect. I think GD is just about repecting the child's needs, abilities and emotions. I don't discipline my 16 yr old. He doesn't do anything (yet lol) that would require that. Sometimes I crab at him about organizing his time, but crabbing isn't a good thing. But I do talk with him a lot about that, and ask if he needs his father or me to help him stay on target. Is that what you mean?

FI, I might ask him on a Saturday morning if he needs certain supplies for a project, but I won't go alone to get them for him, and i wouldn't go out at 11 pm on a Sunday night (I don't think, although it would depend on the circumstances. I can't say I always have every single thing i need for any given project at all times. I did ask my daughter to walk to the neighbor's for an onion the other night. You'd think i would know we were out of onions, right. ). I guess i don't expect anything near perfection from my partner or my spouse-- i mean since I am sooooo far from that...). I try to work from the knowledge that we are all simply human and need help at times.

I suppose I am in a way protecting him from natural consequences of not planning his time perfectly, but then my dh and I often ask each other to remind the other of some appointment or another. We also check in often to ask, "What's going on this week/this day?" so we can help each other plan who is doing what/when. Who is taking who to what music lessons, who is picking up the dry cleaning etc.

I am seriously trying to think of what's not good about a family helping each other stay focused and get things done.

If I think about GD as repsecting the particular emotions of an individual, I suppose that is something i will do with my children and those I love until the day I die. Doing things for my children when they are adults, like paying their rent so they can ski all winter, might be where I'd draw the line. i prob would not protect them from eviction if they were bums. :LOL

I would 'protect' my 5 yr old from a meltdown, however. If, fi, I know we are going to be out late, I pack some protein, or I make a plan to stop somewhere for something to eat. I might not go out of my way for my 12 yr old, but I might. I might think she can wait a few hours to eat, but then i would not ask that of myself. If i were hungry, i'd get myself something to eat. On second thought, i def would plan ahead for a 12 yr old. I'd do it for me, so why not for a child? I would also avoid places if i knew she would be so hungry she'd want that creamy crap of something in the deli shop window that would only give her a momentary blood sugar buzz and then a hangover later. I also admit i am nit sure when i would stop doing that. If I am trying to avoid garbage, i don't let myself be tempted. I try not to go to the market when I'm hungry, fi. I don't make the best choices for myself when that happens. Hunger gives me a headache and dulls my intelligence.

I am throwing out ideas/thoughts. I am nit sure this even addresses your question at all.

I'm so flawed. Nah, not flawed...just a total work-in-progess.

[lilyka]

Your examples are good. because you have an older and younger at differnt stages of developing self discipline and aquirering knowledge. You would defintiely plan for your 5 year old because they won't see it coming. You would plan for yourself because you would see it coming but your 12 year old fits somewhere in the mix. Maybe she has been out late often enough to get it. maybe she hasn't had enough experiance in this area to see it coming. BUt you think ahead because you love her and say "well I am packing snacks, better pack one for her too just in case" and perhaps nexttime she will think onher own - "gonna be out past supper, better grab some trail mix just in case I need a boost" In our family as I gave her the snack I would give her a short casual lecture about planning ahead for such things and how protien is your best best for a snack and because she is getting older and if she doesn't think of these things it is time for her to start. And I don't mean that in a "yousilly child you should have known way" but more in a "here is the perfect place to bring this up" kind of way.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I’m finding it difficult to discuss this not because I disagree with anyone but that the way I categorize parenting ‘arenas’ is maybe a little different.

I respect my child, I love her too. I think she is an individual human with equal rights. I accept her for who she is. This is also what I strive to offer the other people in my life.

The thing is this that these things are not GD for me. I always thought of GD as a noun that describes a discipline style which includes guidance and teaching which strives to be gentle and respectful of children. For me, GD also includes a focus on getting through life with children, which is gentle and respectful but also that allows the parent to navigate parenthood by providing ways to teach and guide our children through childhood into adulthood.

I always assumed that I would stop GDing. I have no idea if this is ‘good’ but it’s just the way that feels right to me. I just always assumed that there would be a day that I was no longer my child’s teacher. It has a romantic feeling to me, like a right of passage into adulthood.

I have enjoyed reading what you all have written and would love to see more. Thanks.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Incidentally, I love the idea of a right of passage into adulthood. We have several in our family…actually they are passages into new stages on up until adulthood. I’d love to tell you about them but, honestly, they’re not for everyone…a little out there :LOL

I’ll post in Parenting Issues about it.

[UUMom]

That's so true, Sandra. My 12 yr old is really at the point where she knows herself. Quite a few times she has asked me how long we'll be out so she can plan (not just about food). She has blood sugar issues and knows it. Just now she came into the kitchen (where the computer is) and took out the frozen strawberries for a smootie in a few minutes. "I'm almost done with this chapter and I'm going to need a snack". It's very cool watching them grow.

[lilyka]

See that is exactly my point. And in a few years you will know she doesn't need you to remind her. in a few more years if you do remind her it will just feel condesending to her. She won't need your helpd developing discipline because you have watched carefully stepping in and helping her learn and she has it and she has developed inner discipline in this area through instruction and experiance. To step in when you know she has it, when she has demonstrated she has a grip on this would be to say "I know far more than you and I don't trust you to handle this" That may not be your intent but that is the way people interpret that sort of interference and inplying that educated mature people lack the self discipline to handle themselves apprpriately and respectfully.

i agree with you ICM. I don't consider loving my children and respecting them how I discipline them. It is how I treat them. to me disciplinning is how I teach and prepare them for life on thier own. How I address areas of thier life that they haven't developed enough self discipline to manage on thier own. I only have a right to do this until they are adults. And if I do my job well I shouldn't have any need to step in when they are grown. However if they have an area they are struggeling with and they ask me for help to work on that specific area then of course I would help them. If I could. But it wouldn't be as a parent teaching a child. More as a friend coming along side them to help them find it in themselves.

[maya44]

Originally Posted by lilyka

I don't consider loving my children and respecting them how I discipline them. It is how I treat them. to me disciplinning is how I teach and prepare them for life on thier own. How I address areas of thier life that they haven't developed enough self discipline to manage on thier own. I only have a right to do this until they are adults. And if I do my job well I shouldn't have any need to step in when they are grown. However if they have an area they are struggeling with and they ask me for help to work on that specific area then of course I would help them. If I could. But it wouldn't be as a parent teaching a child. More as a friend coming along side them to help them find it in themselves.

PERFECTLY SAID!!!!!

[bamamom]

I guess this is the whole reason I let my dd learn things for herself and I don't sheild her from natural consequences. She learns about gravity the hard way, she learns about hot and cold(within reason) the hard way.

We do tell her in a normal voice about things, and we talk about falling, hot and cold, but I think these are just moments of teaching that arise during everyday life. So i guess the answer is no, I don't plan on GDing forever.

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa

Well as my kids turn into adults they would have no reason for me to act as a disciplinarian, gentle or otherwise. (I hate the word discipline anyway, I know it can mean a variety of things, but it always makes me think of harshness.. ick) I guide them gently, discuss things with them, and help them to make their own choices. My job should be to gently ease myself out of that position as they become older and more mature, KWIM?

Gentle, respectful parenting changes as the kids age... and as they become older people I just hope to be close friends that respect one another.

i agree with you ICM. I don't consider loving my children and respecting them how I discipline them. It is how I treat them. to me disciplinning is how I teach and prepare them for life on thier own. How I address areas of thier life that they haven't developed enough self discipline to manage on thier own. I only have a right to do this until they are adults. And if I do my job well I shouldn't have any need to step in when they are grown. However if they have an area they are struggeling with and they ask me for help to work on that specific area then of course I would help them. If I could. But it wouldn't be as a parent teaching a child. More as a friend coming along side them to help them find it in themselves.

Yes very well said. I guess I tend to cringe a bit when I even consider the concept of continuing to parent my child as an adult. I am hoping to rear a child that is able to make her own choices when she reaches adulthood. My parents were not APers/GDers and to this day they tend to display an alarming tendancy to to step in where they aren't wanted because they still feel the responsibility to control my behavior and make it what they think it should be. Annoys the hell out of me. I don't want to be that parent. I want to raise confident young women who can make their own choices but feel free to come to me if they think they need some help or advice. I will not force it upon them (or I'll try my damnedest not to. All bets are off if they start talking about FFing or scheduled c-sections! ).

[maya44]

Originally Posted by wasabi

All bets are off if they start talking about FFing or scheduled c-sections! ).

That's funny though actually this is a problem for my MIL who was crunchy before anyone knew from crunchy (like 50 years ago).

She used natural childbirth, bf, co-slept, etc....

Two of her dd's are AP/NFL but one is really really mainstream. I think it is her way of rebelling!

She only ff, used sposies, CIO, planned c-sections for 2 of 3. (She does GD though).

It drives my MIL crazy. Sometimes she seems torn over the fact that this SIL's kids are awesome. Kind of keeps the "I told you so's" on ice.