My goodness, I am really starting to hate the word...

[our veggie baby]

DISCIPLINE!!!!

I seriously am. I am seriously am thinking about removing it from my vocabulary, because no matter how you cut it, it almost ALWAYS has a negative connotation and there is no way to change that really.

I guess you can't win for losing sometimes. It is negative with some of the GD *crowd* because as crunchy as some people seem, it seems they still feel deep down that discipline means control over someone else and that children are the only ones who need or benefit from discipline and it is an insult to use that word towards anyone else but children...
...similarly, I HATE to use it around *mainstream* people too, because of what immediately comes to mind when they hear the word (spanking, yelling, punishing) etc...
..so seriously, I am lost. Now I have NO idea what to say to people who ask me "how I plan on disciplining" my daughter---if I explain my opinion and view of GD, I am too soft, I am too permissive, my children won't know their "place", etc....

...if I explain it as it relates to me as a way of communicating with people in general, gently, exserting self *discipline* as well as possibly even being able to teach someone else a thing or two (I learn new things all the time, how would I do that without teachers???)...I get the old, "you are treating people like children" bits...implying to me that children are not deserving, (or are they the only ones deserving??) of understanding and kind words...I can't figure it out!!!

So, I am removing that word from my vocabulary because it is SO freaking troublesome it seems...so what do I replace it with???

How will I answer if someone says: How do you plan on DISCIPLININGGGGG your child??? Without of course, saying, Oh, I don't plan to...which is a whole new arguement where I am pounded into the ground for being too *soft* or *crunchy* or whatever...

I know I am sounding martyrous and I am sorry...that whole word is just becoming more trouble than it is worth!!!

[UnschoolnMa]

I almost never use the word discipline. I prefer to use the phrase "gentle guidance". Discipline is associated with punishment and control whether it should be or not, and punishment and control are not what my family is about. It's my goal as a parent. I pulled this definition from an online dictionary:

dis·ci·pline (ds-pln)
n.
1. Training expected to produce a specific character or pattern of behavior, especially training that produces moral or mental improvement.
2. Controlled behavior resulting from disciplinary training; self-control.
3.
a. Control obtained by enforcing compliance or order.
b. A systematic method to obtain obedience: a military discipline.
c. A state of order based on submission to rules and authority: a teacher who demanded discipline in the classroom.4. Punishment intended to correct or train.5. A set of rules or methods, as those regulating the practice of a church or monastic order.
6. A branch of knowledge or teaching.
tr.v. dis·ci·plined, dis·ci·plin·ing, dis·ci·plines
1. To train by instruction and practice, especially to teach self-control to.
2. To teach to obey rules or accept authority. See Synonyms at teach.
3. To punish in order to gain control or enforce obedience. See Synonyms at punish.
4. To impose order on: needed to discipline their study habits.

Ughh.

[our veggie baby]

*shudders* I know what you mean.

It is so weird how it has gotten so far from what it meant in the Bible from the word disciple...or student....kind of along the lines of "spare the rod..." ...to my knowledge, no shepherd has ever beaten his flock, but we all know what people mean when they toss out the spare the rod bit...

gentle guidance is cool...I guess I will never get anywhere with the mainstreamers so I should give up anyway lol...I am more looking for something to shut people up when they ask in their haughty tones "how are you planning on DISCIPLININGGGGGG"...

grrr...

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I agree with your frustrations. It seems that even in the GD forum we have to clarify that we’re using discipline to refer to teaching.

It is sad and I’m all for another label but, to be honest, the only time I use the label GD is here on MDC.

Other than that I have friends and family and we discus theories and ideas, strategies and goals, mistakes and successes but not really in terms of labels.

Maybe it would be nice to do that here for a while. Rather than talk about what’s GD and what isn’t, yk?

[UnschoolnMa]

Originally Posted by our veggie baby

gentle guidance is cool...I guess I will never get anywhere with the mainstreamers so I should give up anyway lol...I am more looking for something to shut people up when they ask in their haughty tones "how are you planning on DISCIPLININGGGGGG"...

grrr...

I would answer them by saying "We aren't planning on it at all actually. Discipline isn't really our thing. We prefer gentle guidance, and helping them make their own decisions." But depending on who you are talking to that might not shut them up LOL! :LOL I totally hear you....

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by our veggie baby

I am more looking for something to shut people up when they ask in their haughty tones "how are you planning on DISCIPLININGGGGGG"...

People just come right out and ask you that? Weird, no? No one has ever asked me that question.

I’d probably just say, “With love and respect.” That would satisfy almost everyone I know.

[UnschoolnMa]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

People just come right out and ask you that? Weird, no? No one has ever asked me that question.

I’d probably just say, “With love and respect.” That would satisfy almost everyone I know.

Terrific answer

[our veggie baby]

People dn't out of the blue ask it like, hi, I am so an so, how are you going to discipline lol

It is usually in the context of talking about children etc (I am pregnant) and inevitably it will turn to the fact that we aren't going to spank or have time outs etc...then I get it...

I like your answer though!

[cmb123]

[QUOTE=our veggie baby]
How will I answer if someone says: How do you plan on DISCIPLININGGGGG your child??? QUOTE]

I'm far to obnoxious...if someone were to actually ASK me that, I'd give some ridiculous answer like.." lock 'em in the closet, beat 'em with a stick, I dunno..."
I know not everyone would find that amusing, but I think it's so obnoxious to ask a question like that, they should get an obnoxious answer.

( although that " love and respect " one was kinda nice too! )

[Ellien C]

My DOCTOR asked me that (who I generally like). She was kind of trying to guide me to time-outs instead of hitting (I think.) And then I was all like - we don't do time-outs. There are no time-outs in my house. And then she asked what I did. It was the first time that had been asked. I stumbled around and said I viewed behavioral problems as pleas for greater connection so I stammered out something about disciplining through greater connection. She seemed to think this was "wonderful," but I'm not sure how well she thinks it's going to work.

As for discipline, since I work in an office I always contrast the ideas of children and workers. In pre WWII management style, workers were viewed as lazy good-for-nothings who would take a mile if you gave them an inch, so a lot of management was about how to discipline workers. But we really don't talk that way much anymore. Now management is about empowering workers. It says if you give them good tools they will make good decisions. Honda put the US auto industry upside down when it gave assembly line workers THEIR OWN ability to stop the line. US plants thought this would lead to chaos - they'd pull that stop switch all day and you'd have thousands of workers idling by while production stopped. But actually the defect rate went down and productivity soared. It's all about empowering workers. So I'd like to get to the same point with children where we don't talk about disciplining them.

I've just recently come to terms with the term when someone pointed out the discipline means to teach and comes from the root disciple. So I'm OK with it now, but I know what you mean.

[darsmama]

lol Cmb! I've said "with dog shock collars, duct tape, cattle prods - typical stuff you need"


Glad I'm not the only smart ass.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by our veggie baby

People dn't out of the blue ask it like, hi, I am so an so, how are you going to discipline lol

It is usually in the context of talking about children etc (I am pregnant) and inevitably it will turn to the fact that we aren't going to spank or have time outs etc...then I get it...

I like your answer though!

I generally try to avoid those kinds of discussions with people who don't share my philosophies on child rearing!! I especially did that when I was pregnant with my first child- I was unsure enough of myself, I didn't need to open myself up to criticism, YKWIM?

Now that I've got 3 kids and 10 years of parenting under my belt (well, the lump in my middle where a belt would have gone when I had a waist) I'm a lot more confident about my parenting style. I'm still not one for confrontation though- I usually won't mention anything about parenting/discipline until somebody comments to me on how well behaved my children are

[abac]

Originally Posted by Unschoolnma

"We aren't planning on it at all actually. Discipline isn't really our thing. We prefer gentle guidance, and helping them make their own decisions."

This would have been a great response for me last week. I was at my parent's house and my father said if he saw my 11 mo. ds was about to touch an electrical outlet, he would move him away and tell him "no." If he went towards it again my father said he would slap his hand!!!
I let him know immediately that he was way out of line even suggesting such a thing and that neither he nor anyone else is to ever lay a FINGER on my child. He looked embarassed and I think he got the point. My mother agreed that this would be out of line an dtold my father that he could give ds a time-out or something. I replied, "Well, actually, I'm really not crazy about time-outs either." My mother then asked , "Well, how are you planning on disciplining him? There have to be consequences if he does something wrong." I said that we'll wait and see. Couldn't think of anything better in the moment. I found it interesting that she asked how we plan on disciplining, then described punishment (imposed consequences.)
It's for reasons like this that I also hate the word. I think from now on, I'll use the above response.

Just want to add...my parents would never discipline my child if I was there. They were talking about what they would do if they were babysitting ds, (which they won't be anytime soon.)