Another Food Control Issue: Urban living?

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I was reading the other food control thread and have lurked on many here at MDC. Often I don’t feel I can relate to the advice because of our lifestyle. I’d love some help!

We shop daily and stop to eat at bakeries almost every day. I feel like this kind of sets us up for more control over food than if we just ate whatever was at home and I shopped 2x/week.

Right now, I do not allow her to buy food from the checkout isle. I think it’s completely rude that stores do this and don’t want to participate in this sales tactic. DC is *okay* with this but I am definitely controlling it as she does ask from time to time. Also, in the stores she finds foods that she likes. I’m happy to let her choose some things but not all things that interest her.

In the bakeries we get bread, rolls, pretzels and, less often, croissants and pastries. It seems like an okay situation but she does ask for something occasionally that, again, I don’t want to get at that time.

So, I’m curious about how you all feel about this? I strive to be non-controlling with food and, I must admit, I’m a touch jealous of those of you who are able provide an environment where control is not an issue.

I’d love some advice, thanks.

[annettemarie]

Maybe I am a mean mama, but I just say no, that's not what we came for today. I mean really, she could ask for a pony if she happened to see one on the street, and I bet you wouldn't feel strange saying no to that.

I would let her choose some things within limits (today you can choose what kind of rolls we get; would you like to choose something yummy for dessert?). Most stores around here have a candy-free aisle, but it still has books and toys, so it's the same sort of thing. Honestly- I shop once a week or less, and not with kids in tow.

[maya44]

Why don't you make a list before you go and explain that everyone will stick to the list. That way you are setting expectations before you walk in.

And, you can give your dc's as much voice in the list making as you are comfortable with.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Yea, AM. I just don’t know how I feel about it. I really admire people who don’t have to say no so often when it comes to this. And, yea, if I only shopped 1x/week without my child and we ate most of our meals at home things would seem easy breezy in the food control department.

Maybe I’m looking for a little validation because I admire a control free environment and I know that food control is considered a huge trouble area.

And, if nothing else, I wanted to discuss this from my lifestyle because so much of the advice I’ve read doesn’t seem to apply to me, yk?


One more trouble area:

We often walk by ice-cream stores (there are like 10 between my home and downtown), candy shops, French fry joints, patisseries, soda machines and etc. How do I limit not walking into every one of these without controlling food being an issue? Also, we are often given candies from the general public.

More thoughts?

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by maya44

Why don't you make a list before you go and explain that everyone will stick to the list. That way you are setting expectations before you walk in.

And, you can give your dc's as much voice in the list making as you are comfortable with.

We don’t usually make lists, shopping everyday and all, but maybe I’ll ask her if there is anything she would like before we go rather than having her ‘shop’.

Also, maybe I’m misinterpreting control (wouldn’t be the first time). Aya is pretty okay in the stores but there’s just a lot of ‘no, we’re not getting those’ going on and I always thought that was kind of a problem. You know, like how you said you allow your child to order from the menu.

That’s my ideal but it doesn’t seem to be going well with our lifestyle. Yea, if we went to the bakery once/week, I’d let her pick anything she wanted, yk?

[annettemarie]

I feel for you- I can't even imagine having to go through that every single day, and it would be hard to say no that often.

I like the list idea. Maybe you could also give her her own string bag or basket to hold things in? Keep her busy!

Could you also save the bakery for last and say something like, we're not getting candy, because we are having our snack at the bakery this morning. And then remind her later too- we already had snack at the bakery, remember? What did you have? How do you think they made that?

One more idea would be to give her a couple bucks and let her choose her own snack. You could have veto power, or not, whatever makes you comfortable.

When you say candies from the general public, do you mean on the street or in shops? We actually don't accept candies (again, I am mean I guess) but our shops give out things like cheese and bread and cookies, and those are fine. But I wouldn't take anything from someone who was just walking along.

She is probably just testing limits- hold firm, mama!!!

[lilyka]

We have a pop machine in our store. well not a machine. a cooler. You just open and get one out. We occaionally let the girls have one. occaisionally came more and more often. So we had to put a stop to it. Well of course the balked. What helped was saying "not today. you may have one *****" we then decided every two weeks was plenty. And since two weeks is a long time to wait and we aren't always at the shop right on that 2 week smark and then themachine gets put away during the winter blah blah blah they often go 3-4 weeks without having one. But it still helps them to know that a time is coming where the answer will be yes. In the last few months we have really talked about how bad pop is for you and rotting the teeth and making you too chubby to run and play well. and they aren't as intrested. Your dd may still be pretty young but she may be old enough to get that some of that stuff has a lot of junk in it and what that junk will do to you if you eat too much of it. It was my 4 year old who told me "mom, put that bottle of pop right back where you got it. That has, like, 136 scoops of sugar in it" out of the mouth of babes. :LOL

Another direction to take would be to indulge her until her tummy hurts and she can't stand another bite of sugar. of course I can't imagine anyone getting sick of crosoints . . .

[cmb123]

For my family I think some of the not having to control is because of I DID control earlier in thier lives. For instance,I breastfed my children for a few years each and I avoided eccess sugar/candy/junk food with my kids until they were about 3 or so. They didn't ask (so that made it easier!) because they had no clue what it was.I felt that delaying introduction to things that I really didn't want them to have as long as i could, helped them to get a taste for some healthier options. I feel that it worked, becasuse they now of course have experienced all kinds of foods, and although they do love junk food, they all are very good at having it in moderation (with the acception of my littlest one... : )Now that I'm thinking about it though, I guess I DO controll it in that we don't have much of it in our house. Same as meat. We have a vegetarian house. My children are "allowed" to eat meat if they choose to, but I won't have it in my home.
I think we all have to have some sort of control at the store. Kids and adults. Most of us don't go to the store and get everything we WANT. My reasons for saying "no" to an item at the store often has more to do with price, or with maybe having too much of that type of food already (i.e. "we can get that kind of crackers after we finish the ones we have at home).
Anyway, my point isn't to say what kinds of foods your family should or shouldn't eat...my point is that the lack of control over food I have now, is because I did use control initially.

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

One more trouble area:

We often walk by ice-cream stores (there are like 10 between my home and downtown), candy shops, French fry joints, patisseries, soda machines and etc. How do I limit not walking into every one of these without controlling food being an issue? Also, we are often given candies from the general public.

More thoughts?

Does your child want to stop at every one? I would imagine that she's probably used to them by now, or soon will be. The novelty has gotta wear off after a while yes?

[UUMom]

We live in a town, but in an area of many shops, zoo, librairies and we walk all the time. I do marketing a few times a week. Bread once place, olive oil another, the HFS for produce, herbs somewhere else. We don't eat out a lot however. Two of my children are hs'd and two go to school. I take my hs'd children everywhere with me. Kindergarten age & 12.

One thing that helps in our family is to explain money issues, health issues, global crap issues. I don't know how old your children are, but my children all know I won't be spending much of my money on little trinkets made by children in China. They also know that organic, whole foods are very important both for their bodies and for the environment. Which is not to say we don't eat crapola sometimes, or that we have never set foot into Made-in China-by-Children-Target.

I don't have any problem sharing my values with my children. I don't have any problem saying I am not going to waste my money on things we don't need, or spend money on items that go completely against my values, or on a steady supply of food that isn't healthy for the earth or our bodies. My children still tease me about the time I went through a Taco Bell drive through on a crazy day. It was bribe --all bribe. They were all cranky and we needed refeuling pronto. There was sudden dead silence in the car as I approached the menu board. My oldest was like, "What are you *doing*???"

But there is no way, and they know it- that I could do something like that every day. Ice cream is fine, but it's an occassional thing. Gooey oooey pastries are not evil, but a steady diet of them are not helping your body to grow and be healthy. I liken our lifestyle to keeping Kosher. A child raised in a Kosher home knows he's not getting a cheesebuger from the kiosk he passes by everyday after school, and doesn't ask. It's a non issue. McDonald's, BK etc are non -issues for my kids. If you have certain things you just won't do- like buy things in a checkout line, state that and then when your child asks remind him again that "I never buy things in the checkout". When your child has his/her own pocket money, he'll either agree with continuing your values or not. it might work out- my 16 yr old doesn't eat Mcdonald's, even when given the opportunity. He's read Fast Food Nation.


Maybe you could plan these things into your week. Arrange with your children that every Friday, or every Monday, we'll go into such and such's shop and have one of his wonderful calzones or baclavas. Set up guidelines for restaurant food. Talk about needing a little protein, some greens, some whole carbs--whatever is important to you. Decide which is most important to you, talk to your child about it. Get to where you feel comfortable with certain 'No's" and then just stick with those for as long as it feels appropriate.

If you don't feel comfortable with saying no or setting limits, that's ok, too. Every family is different. You deal with things as you go, and as best you can.

[cmb123]

Momma4

That's EXACTLY the way we live too. You were much better at getting all of the thoughts out than I am when I write!

[Dal]

This thread almost makes me feel that raising Simon as a vegan will be easier than the alternative. Wishful thinking, to be sure, but in a way it's nice that so much of the crapola available -- I'd say most of it -- simply is not an option for us. No amount of begging would get it for him; he won't be frequently confronted by his absolute favourite snacks in public and have to walk past them. I don't think it's a bad thing that Simon won't have the option of going into a restaurant or store and choosing absolutely anything he'd like. Just thinking as I type. I'll end my hijacking now.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

No, you’re right, Dal. There is some different way of thinking about food control issues with families who have moral or spiritual reasons for controlling food.

This conversation has helped me. Many of the reasons I’m tempted to restrict food are rooted in my own values. I think I have to be clearer about that with DC and with myself.

There’s lots of good stuff in these posts. I’ll post again soon.

[IncaMama]

ok maybe i'm a moron...but why do you have to shop every day, ICM? i just don't know your situation...if it's bothering you so much, can you cut it back to twice a week instead?

[sphinx]

I also shop every day (because I live in a city and carry a baby on my body so I can't carry much stuff, and unless I want to go to big grocery shops, I have to go to several places to stock up). I have had similar issues with my dd who is now 5, and I hear you on the bon-bons (hard candies) thing. Every grandma on the street offers my kid a bon bon and the shops have them at the cash register "for good boys and girls" - it is considered rude not to take it. I often say no because I don't mind being considered rude - but it's the message my child gets that she is somehow being deprived if I don't load her up with sugar and chemicals that really bothers me.

About control - I delayed dd's introduction to sugar to about age 2 1/2 or 3 (which I would definitely do again and hope I will be able to accomplish with 5 month old ds) but she was always hearing "no" to everything her friends had. I was just way too controlling and I am paying for it now because she is obsessed with sugar and all "treats". So I have had to loosen the reins - but I don't want to just relinquish all control and let her eat crap all day either. So basically I am saying I have no answers, but acknowledge that it is really difficult to find a moderate path.

Dal - we are vegetarians living in a place where everyone eats meat. My dd now wants to eat meat to be like others (an extension of the "deprived child" concept). It also a hard situation because I will not let her make that decision until I think she can really understand what meat is - I figure about age 13 or so. But on the other thand I don't want to restrict her right to make decisions for herself, or to trust herself.

I will be interested to see where this thread goes.

[lilyka]

Muy oldest didn't get any refinded sugar until her second birthday. She is totally obsessed now. it sucks. My second who was allowed whatever anyone offered her could take it or leave it and often leaves it. live and learn.

I am only popping in to say you child should have no problem understanding what meat is at a much younger age than her teen years. My dd is 8 and knows full well what meat is. She will ask "Is this cow or pig?" I would think a child who is raised with awareness (we never made a big deal out of it, just answered questions) would have it figured out much earlier. Whether or not you let her decide soner is a nother issue but you don't have to worry about having to be on gaurd all the time. Kids get that sort of thing earlier than we may think they do.

[sphinx]

i myself chose to become vegetarian at age 8, for animal rights reasons. But in my teen years I was better able to mull over the question with more depth and perspective. Which is why I want to leave the decision to that age (over 13, anyway) though I realize she'll have an understanding before that.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Well, it’s a little late to not introduce this stuff ~ the battery in my time travel machine is dead :LOL

Originally Posted by cmb123

Does your child want to stop at every one?

With the ice cream shops, it she does seem to ask more often than you would expect considering we go by so often. Part of that is that the shops are seasonal so she notices when they close an open, yk?

What helps is to only get ice cream at one shop, which we only go by once/week and I don’t even get ice cream every time.



Momma4 ~ I really got a lot from your post. Something that has confused me from time to time is the difference between, say, being a vegetarian for environmental or anti-cruelty reasons and how that is often easily understood from a control perspective. I posted about this on another thread a while back but no one touched it.

See, some of what I don’t allow are simple money, nutrition issues but often it’s more about not buying a chocolate with a stupid, do doubt made by children toy inside. Or issues with marketing crap to young children in a necessity shop like a food store.

Aya is capable of understanding these things. Maybe I need to move away from this goal of not being controlling and focus more *why* I’m controlling these things

Also, (to answer your question MM) it’s a pretty major value issue for me to decide to live my life in a way that happens to necessitate shopping every day. Not only does it mean I don’t need a car and gas but it also means I’m directly in my local community every day. These things are really important to me, yk?



I guess another thing that’s going on for me is that I may not completely understand what people mean by control. Perhaps I’m applying my rather broad definition to we discuss this when actually others mean something slightly different.

[mamaduck]

I shop once a week and I always take my 4 yo. with me. He does ask for things. I try to at least consider what he suggests -- though usually I say, "Not today." What I will say is, "Does that look good to you? Okay -- we'll keep checking on it and sometime when its on sale, we'll try it for a treat." He's generally pretty satisfied with that response -- and agrees that we should not buy it if its not on sale.

For icecreams and snacks and such -- he knows that we go get a treat on Friday mornings. So I suggest to him that he remember whatever it is he noticed, and 'save it' for Friday morning treat. Funny thing is, when Friday rolls around, he generally asks for honey chicken from the chinese food place! :LOL

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

I guess another thing that’s going on for me is that I may not completely understand what people mean by control. Perhaps I’m applying my rather broad definition to we discuss this when actually others mean something slightly different.

I've noticed that people food habits and food beliefs are so individual, and so personal, it would be difficult to find any 2 people who do things the same way. Food is funny like that YK? What one person see's as "control" another see's as essential to thier childs health. People have such different oppinions and standards when it comes to what/ how much food their kids should/nt have.
I do like hearing what other people do though, I think it's interesting...for instance, I said delaying the sweets with my kids helped them not over-do them, another mom said delaying made them sweet crazy.
Ya just never know.
I think food issues are fascinating...