Personality Disorders - dealing - Page 2

[Potty Diva]

Shanti,
Thank you for ending your post like you did. It really saddens me when I read posts that tell of people completely shunning someone with BPD as if it something they have done to themselves, or caused themselves, through something like drug use, or unsafe sex practices. If what Witchymama says is true and that this disorder is brought on my abuse or neglect, how can you fully blame someone for it? I do believe we create our own future and that those with BPD need to take a firm grasp of it, seek counseling, and attempt to heal, I just find it saddening, and cruel that friends would dissolve relationships like this.

[Nature]

The mantra that we learned in DBT class was, "We may not have caused these problems, but we have to fix them anyway."

Though BPD is not our fault at all, we still have to take responsibility for our actions and try to fix our lives. Its hard work, and it takes a lot to be able to stick our necks out and admit that we need to change how we live our lives...but in the end, its worth every tear shed.

[Shantimama]

It's tricky, isn't it? I don't blame my mother for having the problems she does, I know that she wasn't any more responsible for the abuse in her childhood any more than I am responsible for the way she abused me. Where we have to be careful is in not using thae diagnosis of BPD as an excuse or a way of saying that those of us who are hurt by them have to accept it and stay with them since they aren't responsible for having BPD. They may not be responsible for their condition, but others are not obligated to stay in abusive relationships where the person cannot/won't change or when it is too damaging for us while they heal. The way I look at it is that if my mother had mental health, as a mother she would never want her child to stay in an abusive, harmful relationship. She cannot want that due to her mental illness so it is up to me to "mother myself" and find the best way to be and not be in relationship with her. Does that make any sense? We can't blame someone with Alzheimers for forgetting things and we can't blame people with personality disorders for having and creating the problems they do. On the other hand, we know we have to protect people with Alzheimers from the consequences of their memory loss and we also have to protect those who could be hurt by people with BPD. My mother tears strips off of me regularly because she sees my children so rarely and for very short periods of time - but I have a duty to protect my children from any kind of abuse, so I do. If their is a "communion of saints" in the next life and we have all been healed of our various wounds I have to trust that when we are both in that life she will understand and forgive me for the choices I am making today.

Good for you, those of you who have BPD and are working towards healing. What a gift you are giving your children. It is too late for any significant change for my mom (she also has Alzheimers) but you are young and loving enough to give your kids a chance at something wonderful. With all of the painful memories and issues you have to deal with, at least you won't have to live with the memories of not being good mamas to your children. Let that encourage you during the hard times!

[Nature]

Originally Posted by Shantimama

Good for you, those of you who have BPD and are working towards healing. What a gift you are giving your children. It is too late for any significant change for my mom (she also has Alzheimers) but you are young and loving enough to give your kids a chance at something wonderful. With all of the painful memories and issues you have to deal with, at least you won't have to live with the memories of not being good mamas to your children. Let that encourage you during the hard times!

Thank you! It is nice to hear encouraging words. And I will most definatly think of them during moments that I need some positive reassurance!

I'm so sorry that your mother is dealing with those illnesses, and sorrier still that its too late for any hope at much of a recovery. Protect yourself and your children, you are a good mama! You are absolutly right. Just because its not our fault, it doesnt give us any right to hurt those that we love. Though it might not be on purpose...it still happens. And facing that fact, and trying to change it to better our lives is the only way that things can move forward in a positive light.

I am sure that your mother will fully understand the choices that you make, if not now... later. You continue to do what you feel is nessasary. Just because you love someone, it doesn't mean you have to stand there and take whatever they throw at you. You have the right to duck.

Thank you for your post!

[Potty Diva]

I agree. I gues I was feeling poopy.

I am feeling pretty great about my parenting, and my marriage- right now. We just purchased "The Discipline Book" by the Sears and really enjoy it. It talks about respectfully and gently disciplining your child, I need reminders of that sometimes. I am working on recognizing unhealthy behavior and getting out of a situation pronto, if possible. if not I distance myself until I can talk my way down, or out, however you like.

I in no way have EVER believed or thought this was a way to get away with things, and perhaps it is my guilty nature, but it seems like this is what you all (above) are saying in response to my post. Uh..ok, now I feel like I am trying to be the center of attention- UGH!! With the over analying already! Speaking of...anyone heard of the new bookcalled "Wicked"? It's told through the perspective of the Wicked Witch of the West. Just bought it tonight from Waldens. Along with the Discipline Book and The Red Tent.

[girlzmommy00]

Any suggestions on dealing with someone with on-going BPD who is not aware that this is going on with in themself?

I highly suspect that this is what is going on with someone I'm close to. In conversations with a good friend who is a therapist, she's said that this is what she suspects & after reading all of these descriptions, it sounds just like him. Basically, I get the brunt of the anger while he comes across as Mr nice guy to everyone else. It's very frustrating since in their eyes everything is my fault & they can find a way to make anything appear to be my fault.

[The Duchess]

Narcissistic Personality Disorder - long

Hi girlzmommy 00
I saw your earlier post before your editing when you gave more specific examples of this person's behavior, from that it sounded as if you could be dealing with a classic Narcissist. I would encourage you to find out all your can about this PD and see if it fits your experience.

Narcissists are not obsessed with themselves because they literally have no idea who they are, they are obsessed with their self image. Therefore they look to others to reflect back at them who they are. "They direct their energy to other people's impressions of them. By only loving impressions they are incapable of loving other humans, themselves included. But the narcissist does possess the in-bred desire to love and to be loved. If he cannot love himself - he must love his reflection. But to love his reflection it has to be lovable. To a narcissist, love is interchangeable with other emotions, such as awe, respect, admiration, or even more attention (collectively known as Narcissistic Supply). " *

When other people tell the Narcissist all the things he needs to hear, or give him the attention he wants (Narcissistic Supply) he sticks around. Once you start to question or try and delve behind the constant image building he will usually begin a pattern of extremely negative behavior and/or leave to pursue his next source of Narcissistic Supply. Most Narcissists are men (75% according tot he DSM-IV-TR). NPD is one of a family of personality disorders known as Cluster B. Other members of cluster B are Borderline PD, Antisocial PD and Histrionic PD.

The DSM-IV-TR and American Psychiatric Association give nine diagnostic criteria for NPD. For NPD to be diagnosed five (or more) of thse criteria must be met: Feels grandiose and self-important, is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power and omnipotence, firmly convinced that he/she is unique and being special, can only be understood by other special or unique people, requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation - or failing that, wishes to be feared and notorious (Narcissistic Supply), Feels entitled, is interpersonally exploitative - uses others, devoid of empathy, constantly envious of others and seeks to hurt or destroy the objects of his or her frustration, Behaves arrogantly and haughty.*

* I quote from Sam Vaknin's book "Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited" I find it a fascinating read and you may find it helpful. However, I would just caution you that Mr Vaknin was diagnosed with NPD himself and has made himself the "expert" on this condition without any medical training whatsoever (he is all over the internet). The book ends with his resume which is all extremely inflated. He was imprisoned for three years while he claims he was innocent, putting it all down to a conspiracy theory - in other words all kinda classic NPD. However he really gives you incredible insight into the world of a NPD personality.

I have not read this book "Why is it always about You?" but other people have found it helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

[The Duchess]

S'cuse me for adding more - just wanted to say Narcissists are very often bred by Narcissistic parents, therefore this may explain why the whole family are functioning in an alternative reality - and other people are always to blame. Once again NPD seems to caused by parental abuse/neglect - however not much research has been done.

[Kiyomi]

Hi mamas,

I just wanted to say I'm grateful for this thread. Looks like a might be a BPD myself.

WitchyMama, how did you go about your recovery? Can you please share a little? I'm really bewildered about where to begin.

Also, I am wondering if people find that their BPD changes after motherhood. I find my anger stuff has gone insane since my kiddo turned 2.

I fel very broken lately and just want to hear how others have gotten better, so that I might follow their lead.

TIA!!!

[Potty Diva]

I'm on an up and down cycle. Feeling better, doing better, then having a slip. I get physically tired of being so aware of things and watching my P's and Q's. I want to be more consistant so I think I need to bite off a little less in regards to life changes. Anyone else feel this?

[Shantimama]

Any tips for being in relationship with someone with BPD? It is exhausting. My mother has been going into full blown rages lately, telling everyone who will listen (she lives in a nursing home) how much she hates me and what a victim she is. My dh visits her and listens to all of this, then when I visit her she is as calm, rational and sweet as can be - then the next day she is back to despising me. She wonders why we don't visit her more, then goes into a rant about what lying, abusive people we are and how much she hates me............why exactly would I want to spend time there???????? I cannot win. She has no self-awareness or insight and forgets anything I say or do. I have compassion for the sufering of her life but I cannot take much more of her abuse. It is not my fault she was abused as a child. It is not my fault she has Alzheimers, although she will tell you first that it is my fault and then that she doesn't actually have it, I am just making it up. She ignores any bit of truth or observation from others, demands groveling apologies for every slight and can never, ever apologize for anything she does - because apparently, she is perfect and a victim and has never done any wrong. It is infuriating and exhausting and feels impossible to be in relationship with someone like this.

Please help me figure out how to handle this. My therapist encourages me to keep distance in the relationship, but my mom makes me feel so guilty for that - if I take care of myself I am punished for it, if I do what she wants, I am punished for it. Knowing it is classic BPD doesn't really make it any easier to cope with - a little to have a name and reason for it, but oesn't help me with the emotional baggage.

[Greaseball]

Isn't the core of BPD abandonment issues? And the person with BPD goes to great lengths to avoid real or imagined abandonment?

When I worked in mental health, we had a lot of borderline clients and all their backgrounds were the same - they had all been sexually abused, and important people in their lives had left them. Their greatest fear was being alone. They clung to lovers, friends, their children, and their therapists.

One unfortunate detail is that therapists who see borderline clients often do leave them. They cannot tolerate the client's instability, so they terminate therapy. Then the client is left with the feeling of being abandoned again.

[Shantimama]

Greaseball, thanks for the reminder - isn't there a book about BPD called "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me"?? that would sum my mom up these days. She hates me when she feels like it, depends on me when she feels like it, "loves" me when she feels like it, and just doesn't get it why I can't be fine with whatever mood she is in. The memory loss actually helps sometimes - just hard to know what is dementia and what is the personality disorder.

How do you explain this to children??

[alicia622]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

Shanti,
Thank you for ending your post like you did. It really saddens me when I read posts that tell of people completely shunning someone with BPD as if it something they have done to themselves, or caused themselves, through something like drug use, or unsafe sex practices. If what Witchymama says is true and that this disorder is brought on my abuse or neglect, how can you fully blame someone for it? I do believe we create our own future and that those with BPD need to take a firm grasp of it, seek counseling, and attempt to heal, I just find it saddening, and cruel that friends would dissolve relationships like this.

Interacting with BPD people is very draining and if it's not a close relationship- why would someone stay in it? My sister has a different mental illness and NOBODY wants to be her friend because it is so difficult to have a normal give take relationship with her. I have a relationship with her because she is related to me and I feel responsibility toward her. Would I if she wasn't my sister. NO WAY!!

I don't think it's that people actually blame someoen with BPD (although it is easy to think...oh just stop acting/thinking that way) but why put yourself through the drama if you don't have to?

[Juliwan]

I recently stopped contact with my BPD mother after decades of torture. Although there are some BPDers out there who may take responsibility for their disorder and try to do something about it, my mom will never change.

When I first ended contact, I felt so good, like a burden had been lifted. I still felt guilty, but as time has passed (it's been about a month) I feel GREAT. I am also seeing a therapist, and she's helped me tremendously. I am now understanding that for all those years, it wasn't ME, it was HER.

Ending relationships with BPDers isn't for everyone, but it was what I had to do. Like a previous poster said, why would you keep going back into an abusive relationship? I know that we are supposed to honor our parents, but how can I honor someone who isn't honorable?

I wish those of you with the disorder much luck in finding peace, and kudos to you for taking responsibility and doing what you need to do to help yourselves. It's got to be really hard.