Lets talk about "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline"

[harmonymama]

I've just started reading and practicing "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" by Becky Bailey. I love it. Any other fans out there? I have so many ideals about parenting and so often fall short. I think this book might be the answer to my prayers. I really want the Love and Composure she talks about to become integrated into my life. I have a long way to go, but I believe her tools might actually work for me. I just need to stick with it. I think a discussion forum would really help me.

Any others out there who've been working with the 7 powers who could share their experience? I would love for this to be a safe place where we could share our triumphs as well as our lose it moments, and we could gently encourage each other. Any takers? Other mamas who have tried to practice this, are interested, or have really made this a part of your life, I could really use your experiences and support!

[LoveBeads]

She's my hero. I'll post later when I have more time.

[harmonymama]

Thanks lovebeads. Looking forward to your post.

[Mizelenius]

I love her, too. I've heard that one should be wary of any "one" book that promises it all, but I have to say this book comes as close to perfect as I can imagine.

The only problem is that I need to DO what it says . . .to be mindful, to practice, practice, practice.

I have never done the actual practice part at the end, and I think that would help tremendously. As soon as I'm done with this master's portfolio! (I'm hoping next week!)

Anyway, I'd love more discussions on this!

[Nelybel]

I'd love to talk about this book as well. I'm just beginning to re-read it as we speak. I have to confess that when I read it the first time I was put off by her writing 'voice'. However, I did really like the concepts. Now that I'm reading it again I'm not sure what I objected to the first time. Maybe its because I'm finding the information so much more applicable now that my child is a toddler. Before it was just sort of hypothetical cause he was an infant when I read it the first time.

I think the emphasis on the parents behavior and choices is key. But, scary as well. That means I've actually got to do some work and not just parent reactively. !!

Looking forward to what others have to say.
J

[annettemarie]

I have been wondering about this book for a while, and you all have made me decide to reserve it from the library- thanks for the reviews, mamas!

[LoveBeads]

I just ordered "I love you rituals" by Bailey. I can't wait to get it, I'll let you know how it was. SHe also has done a bunch of children's books that I want to get next - I think the title character is Shubert.

When I started reading her book, I loved the analogy she used of being at a crossroads: you have to decide whether to discipline with fear or with love and cooperation. It was an obvious choice but I loved how she put it because I often think about how it separates positive discipline from traditional discipline.

"What you focus on you get more of". Those were definitely words that changed a whole lot of things I did in my life and not just discipline. I see that so clearly with so many other things. If you focus on negativity, you get more of it. If you focus on being judgmental, you get more of it. If you focus on peace and harmony, you get more of it. It makes so much sense but it has become my mantra. I remember how I used to say to my DD "please stop whining" and realized after reading this book that I was focusing on whining instead of focusing on changing the behavior.

I think the book was meaningful for me because it was so much more to me than a discipline book, it was very wholistic and made me take stock of myself and how I wanted to live, the temperament of my home and all of my other relationships.

[harmonymama]

I too love "What you focus on you get more of." I've been thinking about it a lot as I've started reading the book this week. And it really does seem to help. The other things that are helping a lot are trying to remember that every conflict moment is a teaching moment. I am also trying to own my own my own upset. This is a biggie for me. I don't generally use words like, "You make me...", but I do have that attitude sometimes. What I am really yearning for is Composure. I am trying to to breathe and remind myself, "You can choose to see this situation differently", but sometimes its really tough. Like this morning...

Getting ds to choose to get dressed in the morning is our biggest challenge at the moment. We always ask him to choose his own clothes and pretty much let him wear whatever he wants even if its not really appropriate to the weather (I just grab a sweater or something), but still he almost never wants to come and choose. Sometimes I'll say we can go to park when you can get dressed, and if he doesn't, we don't go. But sometimes, like this morning, we have an appointment and just have to go. So sometimes I'll say, You can choose or I'll choose. And if he still won't choose, I get some clothes and bring them over to him, but invariably he doesn't like what I've chosen. Sometimes at that point he'll go over and choose himself, but then I feel like I'm not sticking with the choices/consequences I've stated. Anyway to make a long story short, this morning he was really involved in a game about being a bear. I tried to acknowledge what he was doing, and engage in the game a little before asking him to get dressed. Then I told him to choose or I would choose. I tried to give him time to find completion. I suggested that after he got dressed he could be a Koala going down the steps. I asked him what we could do to make it fun. But he kept hiding. I tried to get him to come out. I asked if I could get him dressed when I found him. I basically tried every idea I could think of to avoid a power struggle, but he was intent on not getting dressed. And I felt it was time to go. I guess natural consequences would have been taking him out to the car naked on a cold, windy day, but I just wasn't willing to go with that. So when he didn't like the clothes I chose, he said he would choose his own, but I stuck to my word, and said that since he had been unwilling to choose, he had to wear what I had chosen (probably a bad idea). Basically a major power struggle ensued, and I ended up losing it, yelling, and basically forcing him to get his clothes on. We both were pretty upset. We made it out of the house, but then I had to stop the car to make up. Bad morning

I get the idea of shifting from getting your child to do something, to trying to make it more likely for them to choose it, but what happens when you've tried every creative positive discipline idea you can think of and they don't choose it, and something just has to be done. How do I maintain composure in these situations? Anybody else had the getting dressed issue? Aargh! Would love ideas or encouragement.

[Mizelenius]

Harmonymama, just remember that one of Bailey's thoughts on something like that is that there is NO such thing as complete cooperation/peace/whatever. For example, she says that with toddlers, if they cooperate even 50% of the time, it's a miracle.

I think a lot about this because it reminds me that sometimes, people (like me!) just get in a bad mood and nothing will change it. Sometimes, people (like me!) just don't want to do what they're supposed to do and get really frustrated because of it. I'm thisclose to finishing my final project for my master's and I DETEST every last minute of it. It's hard to get myself to do it, even though I know the light at the end of the tunnel is so close . . .and I'm supposedly an adult.

So, like you said, concentrate on what you want more of . . .but it doesn't mean bad days won't happen!

[LoveBeads]

harmony...in the words of Becky Bailey, "what you focus on you get more of." You are focusing on giving him a choice for putting on clothes, you are focusing on giving him the ability to decide what he is wearing and when he is going to put it on and how he is going to put it on. Too many choices I think, it might be time to pull back on them and let him make more benign choices.

Here's a way to start: first, how about he decides what he wants to wear the night before? Lillian Vernon sells these really cute clothes organizers. It hangs in the closet and has little compartments for each day of the week. You can help him plan his week (or just the next day).

Next, make a game out of getting dressed. DD's favorite was when I would say "do you think you can get dressed before I get out of the shower?" and she loved the challenge. If he's too young to get dressed by himself then challenge in other ways: Do you think mommy can get your shirt on before she counts to 10? Can you hold your socks while I put your pants on? We need to put this shirt on so we can dance across the floor and put on our pants - hurry! Can you sing "Twinkle Twinkle" while I put your pants on?

You get the idea, just try to make it as fun for him as possible and give him a "role" so that he is participating.

He sounds a bit overwhelmed with the idea of choosing his clothes so maybe you can let him choose one thing like the shirt and you choose the pants.

Another idea is to hold up two things that *you* might want to wear and say, "DS, I'm going to choose your clothes and you're going to choose mine. Which sweater should I wear?" and let him choose clothes for you.

I think that if he is showing reluctance to choose then you need to pare down his choices between two things. I found that my DD did not want to make choices - she is much more comfortable with me choosing for her. I really didn't start off with her this way but it became apparent that she just didn't want to make the decisions. I choose her clothes every day (she'll be 5 in two weeks) and almost all of her meals. I'd be happy to let her make choices but she isn't ready. Sometimes she'll do it if I offer her a choice of two different things but a lot of times even that will overwhelm her.

[harmonymama]

Thanks so much guys. Your support and ideas are really helpful. I'm going to try to get more proactive about the whole getting dressed problem, and work on some simple, creative routines. I'll also try to relax and accept the bad days. I really appreciate the encouragement.

Anybody want to share "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" success stories?

[nycapmom]

I read her I Love You Rituals book and it was ok. I just got a copy of Easy To Love..... and noticed she hasn't got children of her own (at least there isn't mention of any in the profile) Not saying folks without children can't give good advice but it does remind me of going to a male OB, yk?

I do hope Easy To Love is helpful

[hvl25]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/easytolove-group/

i joined this group hoping it would make me read the book. I still haven't i don't get much reading time, i really need to push myself to get this one read.

heather

[Mommay]

I just got this book, but have not started yet. I would love to talk about it though once I get started.

[harmonymama]

hvl25- thanks for the link!

[harmonymama]

An update, I really think the ELDD powers are beginning to work for me. Positive choices are working miraculously well. I'll feel myself readying for a major anticipated power struggle. Then I remind myself to give two positive choices and repeat them calmly and positively until he complies. It's amazing! I'm just sure he's not going to comply, and then he does! Maybe not quite as quick as i wanted him to, but then I realize how unrealistic my expectations sometimes are, and how often I initiate the power struggle LOL.

Also, trying to see conflicts as teaching moments is really helping me to stay calm and be creative. Good thing, because ds1 is going through a period of desequilibrium, not wanting anyone to be his boss phase.

I'm almost finished with the book, and I'm really working on "Noticing"/changing my praise language, and empathy. Anyone want to share practice stories? And what about those success stories? Come on guys!

Also, I've been thinking a lot about how she apparently doesn't have kids (as someone else on this post pointed out). I have some really mixed feelings about that, because I really don't think you know what its like until you've been through it. Teaching composure, when you've never done 24/7, or stayed awake 3 nights covered in vomit with a sick kid? But, miraculously, I'm still finding a lot of wisdom in her words, hmmm...

[Nelybel]

I'm also noticing some improvement as I attempt to apply what I'm learning from the book. I think a lot of it has to do with me feeling more calm and recognizing that I have a 'plan' of sorts for dealing with ds's various unpleasant behaviors.

One of the skills I'm finding most helpful is the assertive voice. As I use it, I'm quite surprised at how many times I start to use a passive voice (making a request instead of clearly stating what I want/need.) Interesting. I'm also much more aware of my husbands frequent use of the passive voice and am noticing how ineffective it seems to be. But if I make a clear, calm statement of what needs to happen, accompanied by hand motions...it usually works. It might take 5 repetitions....but it works. :->

I'm very struck by the chapter on appropriate praise and it makes more and more sense to me as I think about it. I'm someone who always tries to please (first child, etc.) and I do think that different ways of affirming me as a child might have helped. Its so hard not to say "good job" all the time though. I was also really struck by her suggestion that you should really affirm and appropriately praise a child when they cooperate...even if it took 16 tries and much difficulty to do it. (Something about if a toddler cooperates even 50 percent of the time its a big and good deal). Makes me realize how often I just take the helpful, pleasant behavior for granted.

The thing I'm having the most difficulty with is that whole 'what you pay attention to, you get the most of'. (sorry - really bad grammar there). When ds suddenly wallups the baby I don't have a clue what words to use. Somehow calmly stating "the baby needs to be safe and happy" doesn't quite seem to cut it. Any thoughts? However, I think the concept has real merit. Just am not sure (in a practical way) how to implement it.

Are we sure she doesn't have kids? Maybe she just wants to keep that info out of the mix. I meant to do a google search and see if I could find out but haven't had the time. I agree to feeling a little uncomfortable with advice that doesn't come from a been there-done that perspective. (Especially now that I have kids and realize how clueless I was before). On the other hand, I like the developmental stages information and that seems to be appropriate and useful whether or not she has had kids of her own.

Final thought/question. Its bugging me that I'm trying to respond to ds in this thoughtful, respectful, blah-blah manner and that my dh is more irritable sounding and wanting to use a punitive (time outs) approach. Am not sure how to approach him without him getting defensive. Am guessing I'll need to apply some of the skills the author talks about. (Seems like the info would be useful for dealing with any age group.) I'm just not feeling rested enough for any big discussion about this (and when would we have the time?). Anyone else struggling with this?

J

[Mizelenius]

Just want to respond to the part about the author possibly not having children . . .this doesn't bother me. Personally, I get a lot of reassurances that "every mom" loses it/isn't patient sometimes and it's OK.

However, I like the fact that while the author doesn't say I'm a horrible parent for doing so, ultimately it is MY RESPONSIBILITY to choose how I act, every time I act. I feel like it's a matter-of-fact, tough love approach. This helps me when I'm in the moment, remember that I'm the adult and no, it's actually NOT okay to behave how I'd "like" to behave (like a child!).

Again, I don't find the author's tone critical, but rather just telling it like it is . . .that I always have a choice in how I react. This is something I would love to pass on to my DD, and as the author says, it starts with me as a parent.

[Nelybel]

Originally Posted by Mizelenius

. . .that I always have a choice in how I react. This is something I would love to pass on to my DD, and as the author says, it starts with me as a parent.

I love this in what she says as well. My mom used to always say that we have the power to choose our reaction in any given situation. I thought I understood what she meant but it has only been in recent years that I've really begun to process what that concept is all about. And now that I have kids, I'm really starting to learn. :->

I agree. I want to pass this philosophy on to my kids and as the author says....I can't teach it unless I can live it. As helpful as the book is in dealing with children...I think its most significant contribution has to do with my own self-discipline.

J

[harmonymama]

I was also really struck by her suggestion that you should really affirm and appropriately praise a child when they cooperate...even if it took 16 tries and much difficulty to do it. (Something about if a toddler cooperates even 50 percent of the time its a big and good deal). Makes me realize how often I just take the helpful, pleasant behavior for granted.
\
J[/QUOTE]

I hear you, Nelybel! I'm amazed by how often I ignore/take for granted the helpful, pleasant behavior, now that I am trying to Notice it. I'm also not big on praise, so I didn't want to be praising him all the time, but I hadn't figured out the alternative. I had been you using, "Thank you for...", as that is what my husband and I say to each other, but I'm beginning to agree with Bailey's idea that this takes the focus off the child and onto pleasing ME. Thank you has a different connotation with kids than adults I guess. The last couple of days, I've been trying to really notice/see my son throughout the son, particularly for his helpful,pleasant, generous behaviors. I am amazed how much thought and practice it takes to use descriptive rather than judging language. I have to choose to summon some creative energy in order to do it, and sometimes it still sounds haulting/ artificial to my ears, but DS responds beautifully! I'm finding that it also helps me to remember all the times throughout that DS is pleasant and kind! Then when he does something really rude and nasty, I can keep it in perspective and not take it personally or overreact. She doesn't mention this benefit in the book, but I think its a biggie for me. Using her appropriate praise seems to be creating a more positive environment in our home, and helping us all feel happier and more at peace. I can see its really going to take a while for me to make these behaviors a habit for myself, so keep this thread coming