Should this be legal? - Page 4

[PaganScribe]

I'm one of those folks y'all don't like

I went into this saying I'm going to "TRY" to breastfeed. As I've posted about before, I did a lot of reading and research and talking to people about breastfeeding before I had my baby, and the overwhelming message I got was "It's very hard and most people can't do it" -- either because of physical hurdles or because of undermining hospitals and doctors or because of lack of support. I heard over and over and over again "It's worth trying but it's VERY HARD and most folks can't do it, but if you (by some miracle) can, it's worth how terrible it is." I'd have been insane to go into it thinking that I was going to DO it, rather than TRY it, because my body's never done anything I've asked it to before in my life, why would it start now?

So I said "I'm going to TRY, but I don't think I'm going to be able to." And it was easy, and it worked, and I'm thrilled. And I did have thrush, and they gave my baby a pacifier while he was in the hospital, and I had an unplanned C-section and didn't get to see him for more than an hour after birth, and no two nurses who were "teaching" me how to bf said the same thing, and my milk didn't come in for five days, and I had one nurse tell me "He's screaming like he's starving to death -- I gave him a pacifier, but what he really needs is something to eat." My doctor prescribed formula supplements because of his jaundice (we just smiled and nodded and didn't give him any formula). But it was easy -- and it didn't occur to me to give up, even though I was only "trying."

Maybe I was just lucky that it was so easy for me. But now y'all can say that you've "known" someone who was going to "just try" to bf that did succeed -- Nate was exclusively bf for his first six months.

NOW, to be more on-topic, about the ABM:

I'm of the opinion that we don't need anymore government regulation of private business, but I think consumers (patients!) have the power to change these practices if we'd just take that power. That would require an educated populace, though. If the consumers aren't educated, they aren't going to be able to take that power for themselves.

Actually, I was glad to have the samples -- not at the beginning, but just recently. In the middle of May, we had a crisis in my family -- my grandfather very unexpectedly decided he was ready to die and refused any treatment, after being in ICU for six weeks. Over the next several days, I sat with him and after he died, did anything I could to help my mom. What I didn't do was pump. And then I got really sick.

So the last two weeks he was at daycare before summer, I couldn't keep up with him. He had two bottles of formula that first day we were back, and then a bottle on several other days when I just didn't pump enough.

I was really, really disappointed about having to give up my "He never had a drop of formula!" badge -- the fact that I went into such a long explanation kind of indicates I'm defensive, doesn't it? -- but the simple fact is, I didn't have another viable alternative, at least not in my very addled brain over that time period. Looking back, it was still the best choice for me in that situation -- if the formula samples hadn't been in the house, I'd have had to go out and buy some at six o'clock that first morning back -- but the situation did make me very aware of how having formula in the house could make it easy for someone struggling to say "well, I'll just give him this one bottle of formula . . . " because it was very easy, since the formula was just right there.

But I didn't even come close to going through the free formula they gave me at the hospital, so I took advantage of their "generosity" even though they have NO chance of ever getting me as a customer.

I am rambling; sorry; I'm still sick and very out of it right now. I'll quit after I ask one more (off topic again) question:

Our hospital had some kind of designation as a "breastfeeding friendly" hospital -- I don't remember the exact term -- and had a list of ten "commandments" they had to follow to get that title. (I'll spare my rant about the fact that NO PACIFIERS was part of that checklist and I saw how much good that did!) Nothing about formula was listed, and they did in fact give me formula samples. Does this mean they are doing something fraudulent (claiming this designation when they don't deserve it) or are there different guidelines for different "baby-friendly"-type designations?

[dentente]

Well, I like you already and I don't even know you. You are honest about your experience. Always cool.

Denny

[Viola]

Carrie, that's an interesting story because I also said I was going to try and breastfeed. Actually, I think I always said that I was planning on breastfeeding. I read up about it in books like the Baby Book and The Nursing Mother's Companion. I had a doula and my plan was not to let the hospital give any formula. It didn't work out that way, after all, and for some reason I was just thinking of this when I woke up at 4 am today and couldn't get back to sleep.

In the hospital the nurse told me that my daughter's blood sugar was low and I could either nurse some more or give some formula. I said nurse. After nursing, she still decided that her blood sugar was low and told me she'd like me to give her some formula, and here's why: if her blood sugar stays low, she will get sluggish and won't want to breastfeed and that will get your breastfeeding relationship off to a poor start. I said that I was worried about nipple confusion, and the nurse told me that nipple confusion wouldn't be a problem as long as I always nursed first before offering the formula. Well, I tried to feed the formula, a little pissed off at it all, and she didn't like it and wouldn't drink it. So I gave up. My doula offered to feed her the formula for me, so I let her. Apparently she drank an ounce, but it seemed like she was letting it all run out of her mouth so I don't know how much she ingested.

Then once we were in our room together, I was supposed to keep offering her formula until they told me her blood sugar level was fine. Well, I did try, but she wouldn't drink it and I said to heck with it and just nursed her. Later they told me her blood sugar was fine and I could discontinue the formula. I already had.

Thinking about it, sheesh, I was educated I thought, but it seems like such a stupid thing to have done. To force a baby out of the womb less than an hour to drink an ounce of formula?

I don't know if it was the formula use that caused the next situation, or if this is just normal. But about 2 days after she was born and my milk hadn't come in, she kept latching on, nursing for a bit, and screaming as if there was nothing there. This was around midnight or so. I was in pain and she was screaming, and she didn't want to keep trying to nurse. So I told my husband to go down and get the formula sample and mix it up. He fed the bottle, she gulped down an ounce and then refused anymore. My milk came in the next day and I never used formula again. So I can't claim exclusive breastfeeding, but I always do anyway. Heck, she nursed for 4 years and didn't really eat solids until she was a year old, so I figure my milk is what grew her. It just happened that on that one night she seemed really hungry and wasn't getting anything from me. It's possible that the extra formula she got in the hospital messed things up, and that I should have just gotten through the night and let her scream instead of giving her the abm, but I'm not sorry that I let her have it.

I still think that the initial formula at the hospital was uneccessary, and I don't plan on repeating that scenario again. She didn't have low blood sugar anyway, just a little lower than they liked to see. :

I always knew in the back of my mind that even though I was using the formula, I was going to breastfeed, doggone it, so I must have made up my mind that I wasn't going to just try. The funny thing is that my daughter definitely developed nipple preference. I could never get her to take a bottle of ebm even though there were times when that really would have come in handy. I guess I was lucky in that regard, though, because it could have gone the other way.

[DaryLLL]

Pagan Scribe-

Thanks for sharing your story. I am glad you had a successful bfing experience. It really makes me see red tho, that your hospital went against its guidelines for establishing lactation! Hospitals have to work very hard to become designated "Baby Friendly." Here is the list of do's and don't's established by WHO ansd UNICEF.

http://home.onemain.com/~ct1008688/bfusa.htm


The Ten Steps to Successful Breastfeeding are

1. Have a written breastfeeding policy that is routinely communicated to all health care staff.
2. Train all health care staff in skills necessary to implement this policy.
3. Inform all pregnant women about the benefits and management of breastfeeding.
4. Help mothers initiate breastfeeding within an hour of birth.
5. Show mothers how to breastfeed and how to maintain lactation, even if they should be separated from their infants.
6. Give newborn infants no food or drink other than breastmilk, unless medically indicated.
7. Practice "rooming in" by allowing mothers and infants to remain together 24 hours a day.
8. Encourage breastfeeding on demand.
9. Give no artificial teats, pacifiers, dummies, or soothers to breastfeeding infants.
10. Foster the establishment of breastfeeding support groups and refer mothers to them on discharge from the hospital or birthing center.

As you said no two nurses told you the same bfing info, obviously they have violated #s 1 and 2. If the nurse was giving a pacifier without telling you first, it seems you weren't rooming in. Violating #s 7 and 9. What else did they violate? I would urge you to write a letter to the LC at the hospital, to the OB head of maternity, the director of the hospital and the Baby Friendly organization itself. This hosp is operating under false pretenses!

I am so sorry for the loss of your grandfather, and the stress involved probably causing you to get sick. Feel better soon! I hope, when you feel better, you want to take action on your hospital's fallacious claim of being Baby Friendly.

Amywillo--

Your exp with the "low blood sugar" also makes me angry. I can so relate, I had a similar exp with my first daughter. After a c-sec and a couple more days in the hosp, they told me my (born at 10 lbs 2 oz) baby had lost too much weight. As if she couldn't afford it. I often think her weight was artifically raised b/c of all the IV fluids I had (well, I think that now, not at the time of course). So, as my milk was not in, I was told to give her a bottle of sugar water. She choked and spuutered and had an oz, mostly down her front. Of course, giving a bottle to a newborn, who had been latching well, ran a great risk of causing nipple confusion.

Later in the day, she "gained" 8 oz over what they had told me she had been in the morning. Obviously the drops of sugar water did not cause the "weight gain." I'm thinking she was weighed just after a poop or something. Also, I had sent her to the nursery so I could take my first shower, and I believe 3 hours had gone by between nursings.

OTOH, the prev night, she was fussing for me, I was walking the floor and told a nurse about her fussiness and she just calmly said, "Sounds like a baby to me. Just soothe her and keep encourging her to nurse."

Cut to baby#3. He ws born at home, and didn't get mad at the slow colostrum. He just nursed for 3 hours straight his first night. My milk came in in 24 hours. I would suggest, if your baby is said to have "low blood sugar," is too tired or frustratied to nurse, ask for a pump (instead of ABM) and stimulate your breasts yourself, to bring in your milk. If you are recovering from surgery, take very good care of yourself, eat and drink well, and take your pain meds if you need them, so you are as comfortable and non-stressed as possible. Limit visitors of course, so you can relax with your breasts out as you nurse.

[PaganScribe]

Originally posted by DaryLLL
[B]As you said no two nurses told you the same bfing info, obviously they have violated #s 1 and 2. If the nurse was giving a pacifier without telling you first, it seems you weren't rooming in. Violating #s 7 and 9. What else did they violate? I would urge you to write a letter to the LC at the hospital, to the OB head of maternity, the director of the hospital and the Baby Friendly organization itself. This hosp is operating under false pretenses!

Those seem similar to, but not exactly the same as, the "ten commandments" for breastfeeding they had posted all over the place. So maybe the designation they were claiming wasn't "baby friendly" -- I'll have to look through my paperwork and see -- they weren't on the list on the site you linked to.

I was "rooming in" but they took my baby away for about an hour in the mornings to examine and weigh and bathe him -- I feel terrible about that now, but I was soo drugged up from the C-section and kidney stone, and sooo exhausted, that I didn't protest it at the time. Ugh.

I am so sorry for the loss of your grandfather, and the stress involved probably causing you to get sick. Feel better soon! I hope, when you feel better, you want to take action on your hospital's fallacious claim of being Baby Friendly.

Thanks for the good thoughts. I have already filed one complaint with the hospital about the nurse who gave my child a pacifier without telling me about it (and accused me of starving my baby to death). As I do more thinking about my experience in the hospital, I am considering writing another letter of complaint about several aspects of my hospital experience. I don't think I will want to birth in that hospital again, even though I had heard great things about it from other women.

In fact, I had been told by one couple (who gave up bfing once they got home) that the nurses there were "bfing Nazis" (which made me see red!) and that bfing was all they cared about. Ha!

The funny thing is I do give Nate a paci now, and have since he was about 6 weeks old. I have no philosophical problems with pacis when not abused; I just didn't want anything preventable causing bfing problems (since it was going to be so hard anyway!).

[candiland]

Whoa. My baby did not eat for the first three days of her life, was extremely sluggish, then I had cracked, bleeding, pussing nipples for over a month, developed thrush for the next few months that was sooo painful I cried through every single nursing session... but there was no way my baby was going to have formula.
If I would have been in the hospital, I probably would have ended up formula feeding. Honestly, most people in the healthcare industry are so incredibly idiotic when it comes to this most basic function of the female body. My first, despite every single horrific breastfeeding circumstance I could have possibly imagined, was in the 95% on the growth charts for the first six months of life! If hospitals weren't so quick to give out those handy dandy free formula samples - which absolutely should only be used in a true emergency - I really think the majority of women could and would nurse their babies successfully. It just makes me ill that profit has no moral standards. You can screw up a child's system for the rest of its life by giving formula. But who cares, I guess, when we're talking about billions of dollars in revenue each year:
How ironic that in a patriarchal medical establishment, women's bodies are not trusted to perform their most basic evolutionary tasks.

[mama_kass]

Wow! What amazing stories. I love to read about women who have triumphed over difficult starts. Way to go ladies!

[Viola]

Originally posted by DaryLLL
I would suggest, if your baby is said to have "low blood sugar," is too tired or frustratied to nurse, ask for a pump (instead of ABM) and stimulate your breasts yourself, to bring in your milk.

The thing is that she was nursing fine and getting the colostrum. I even heard her swallowing with each suck. She never was too tired to nurse, they just told me that could happen. I don't think it would have, however. I mentioned this to a LLL leader and she wanted to know why they were testing her blood sugar anyway. I hadn't even thought of that. The tested it a number of times, but never cleared it with me. I really didn't know what was going on. Now I see why moms don't want to let their babies out of their sight.

[CortLong]

I don't think that free formula should be handed out, but I'm all for free samples....I didn't get any samples other than formula, but I sure did get a lot of coupons....

[miriam]

Yes, they can hand it out to you free....


...and you are free to toss it in the garbage where it belongs!