Neglect??

[party_of_seven]

I have a huge issue weighing on my mind, and I don't know what to do about it.

My BIL was reported to CPS about 1.5 years ago for neglect. My MIL reported him because of several things. For starters, 3 of his 5 children needed medical care that BIL refused to provide for them. One child had chronic UTIs and constantly wet her pants, at least one child had pin worms, and the 2 boys are borderline autisic and need therapy. Oh, and the oldest needed glasses terribly. All of these things my MIL pointed out to them numerous times, and BIL just turned a blind eye to it all.

To top all of that off, their living conditions were deplorable. Filth, and trash several inches deep.

The final straw was when the children started claiming that their mother was hitting them. They had burises etc. MIL reported, and the children were removed from their home and placed in MIL's care for about 2 months. The children's medical issues were taken care of, BIL cleaned up the house, got therapy, and the kids were returned to him. Now, MIL is totally cut out of their lives and she sees the kids maybe 3 times a year....she knew that would happen, but she was very concerned for the kids.

Now its 1.5 years later. BIL went out of town for the week, and asked dh to feed his dog and the fish while they are gone. Dh suggested that maybe we could be nice for them and tidy up and do the laundry....BIL's wife is expecting their 6th child in a few months too, so I thought she might appreciate it.

I went in to access the situation and see if I might need to bring some laundery det. What I saw made me want to throw up. The whole house smelled like urine. The kids didn't even have sheets or covers on their beds. The entire upstairs (where the kids rooms are) was covered in several inches of garbage....seriously, it was all garbage....food wrappers and garbage. You couldn't even walk into the bathrooms because of the garbage, and there was feces smeared on the walls and the door frame. It was just totally indescribable. I was horrified. This wasn't just messy.....my ANIMALS live better than these kids do. If my animals were living in these conditions, Animal Rescue would come and take them from me ane I would be on the 10:00 news.

The thing that scared me the most is the thought that they are bringing another baby into that mess. I don't know how a toddler that picks things up and puts them in its mouth is going to survive in that house. Their youngest is 5 right now, and the oldest is 14. All of them are left alone for several hours until the parents get home. I don't know what they are going to do with the baby.

This wasn't just messy and cluttered, so don't jump on me. I am not bothered by people's messy and cluttered houses. This was UNSANITARY plain and simple....this is how disease gets spread. This was neglectful....no doubt about it.

I just don't know what to do. I feel like I should DO something. I want to go and clean it all up for them, but I know it won't make them change. I don't want them to have to deal with CPS again. I just want them to see that this just isn't right to let kids live like that, but I don't know how to teach them that. They are not stupid people. His wife is a nurse, and he does some pretty technical stuff....they live in a $150,000+ house. I just don't get it. I feel like I should just forget it and let them live the way they want to, but the momma in me says that its not right for kids to live in a situation like that. What should I do?

[mamalisa]

Is it possible that they are overwhelmed? Can your dh talk to his brother, man to man? Maybe saying if they don't pull it together he will have to do something about it? I would hate to call CPS on a family member but kids don't deserve to live in filth.

[Vermillion]

I’m usually a mind your own business type person, but if I knew children were living in this kind of situation-

The whole house smelled like urine. The kids didn't even have sheets or covers on their beds. The entire upstairs (where the kids rooms are) was covered in several inches of garbage....seriously, it was all garbage....food wrappers and garbage. You couldn't even walk into the bathrooms because of the garbage, and there was feces smeared on the walls and the door frame.

I’d call CPS in a heartbeat. They should know better since they have already had CPS called on them once for their history of neglect.

I’m not the best housekeep in the world. You can visit my house on a day that I’ve cleaned and there will still be some clutter, but what you described above is foul and is no way for kids to live, especially a baby!!!

[LongLiveLife]

People who live like this have a mental disorder, and I don't mean that as a figure of speach. People who cannot throw anything away, who are content to live in filth and just don't SEE what it looks like to other people have a mental disorder. Your BIL thought nothing of having you over to the house to witness this horror, so obviously he doesn't understand how vile and detrimental it is. I would not bother with the whole heart-to-heart thing. Honestly, that sounds like a joke to me. If there was any understanding on his part, if he was even capable of understanding, it never would have gotten to that point in he first place. Pointing it out to him would be like pointing out to somebody that their foot is rotting off; if they don't see it on their own it's because something is so screwed up in them that you're not ever going to make them "get it". A guy like that is going to need to be forced into compliance. Call CPS.

[sleet76]

I agree with LongLiveLife, I think they aren't likely to change and probably don't understand that their filth is abnormal. Especially since BIL allowed you into his home. I'd call CPS and hope for the best.

[AmyAngel]

Yikes.

I would have a really hard time calling CPS on a family member, but I think this definitely warrants it. I personally would give the home a good walk-through with a video camera documenting the filth, especially if you decide to do the heart-to-heart route first. I'd probably anonymously call and ask what you should do - I would want to clean the house for them but I'd ask the CPS people and document the situation first.

I'm a really bad housekeeper, but clutter is different than garbage. I'm just not bothered by a little dirt or clutter - I DON'T always see it unless it's pointed out to me - but FILTH is entirely different and nobody should have to live in that.

Maybe some basic life skills and parenting classes are in order for them? Though I would think a nurse would understand about basic cleanliness.

[ryleeee]

wow. that makes my stomach churn.
your heart must have stopped...

i would DEFINITELY call CPS.
in a heartbeat.
no child deserves to live in those conditions...

[poppyqwn]

I think you should call. Really momma. You can do it anonamsly if you don't want you name invovled. Just think about how much worse it will get with a new baby there. If they have already gone through the CPS ordel before and haven't changed, then they really need to be made aware that it isn't a minor incovience, it is a HUGE deal. If it were me, I would get the kids safe first then worry about the backlash. Would MIL be willing to take them again if she needed to? I think she may be a big supporter of you helping them. Stay strong. I think your first instincts are correct.

[philomom]

Call NOW! Any child deserves better than that!

[WonderWild]

I totally agree with LongLive. This sounds a lot like how my OWN brother and SIL live. My SIL is an alcoholic. They have had CPS called on them several times. By teachers, neighbors, and even me. We have tried everything with my brother. Trying to help him, yelled at him, etc. It's obvious what's wrong with my SIL but I think my brother is just so depressed from it all that he has given up. Is this a possibility with your BIL? Hugs to your family.

[girlzmommy00]

I'd definately call as well. That goes so far beyond just being messy. I'm surprised the children aren't ill now living like that. I think this goes way beyond letting them live as they like. There is obviously something wrong with the parents that they'd live like that. Please call.

[TiredX2]

Oh, I am so sorry.

Another vote, though, for call CPS. Do not pass go. Do not have a heart-to-heart. Call CPS and get them HELP before they have another baby in that mess.

[party_of_seven]

I was really hoping that you guys would come up with something I hadn't thought of.

I am afraid that all of you are right. I do think that there is some mental illness involved here. Their boys definately have some issues, and SIL's dad has aspergers(sp?). SIL seems to have things pulled together though...from the outside anyway. She seems very normal if you were to meet her on the street. BIL is just plain lazy I think.....there are WAY too many hours spent playing the PS2 at that house.

I will let dh read your responses and ask him what he thinks. I think that an anonymous phone call to CPS might be warranted. They would probably stop by just to check up on them since they have had issues in the past.

I called and spoke with MIL and she reminded me that she didn't even report them....the school did. CPS contacted her, and all she told them was to talk to the kids. Its not like MIL was out to get them or something....which is what BIL makes it out to be.

I do think that the WHOLE family needs therapy....kids AND parents. The parents definately need parenting classes.

I just worry that the only thing that will make them see the light is the death of one of their children due to their neglect.

Keep the replies coming. I want more input on this.

[captain optimism]

I just read a website about squalor:

definitions:
http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/index.shtml

causes:
http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/causes.shtml

It sounds like this is pretty extreme, and like your ILs need to get professional help.

I guess yeah, call CPS.

[party_of_seven]

Thanks for the link. I think that from reading that they are probably at about stage 3....except that stage 4 is having human urine and feces present. The garbage wasn't piled quite as high as it was in the pictures that were posted on that site, but it was a pile none the less....there wasn't even a path through it. The only other thing that was different was that they seem to have no problem inviting people into their home. They don't entertain, but if you show up they let you in.

The link did say that cleaning the mess for them will not solve the problem.

[party_of_seven]

Oh, someone asked if it is possible that they are overwhelmed.

I would say that it is possible, but I don't think that it is the cause of their problem. They have lived like this ever since they were married, and it has progressively gotten worse as the kids came along. They just don't pick up after them, and they don't teach the kids to pick up after themselves. They just neglect to do anything at all....to the point that the kids govern themselves. I think that it has gotten worse in the last several years that they have lived in their new house. Its 5 bedrooms. All of the kids bedrooms are upstairs and the master is downstairs. The kids are sent upstairs and left to destroy it. I don't know if the parents even go up there. The living room and main living area was kinda OK....less garbage, but still filthy. I don't know what the parents room looked like it was locked with a key so no one could go in there.

[sparkprincess]

That sounds just foul. I grew up in squalor and no child should have to do that. Another vote to call CPS.

[Nature]

IMO calling CPS isn't going to help them either. If anything it would only cause more stress. Living that way *is* stressful to them, and I suspect that they just got used to it after awhile.

I am always in favor of talking to them first. Let them know that people are concerned. Tell them that CPS is in danger of being called. Give them a chance to act first. Its possible that after living that way they just don't see it themselves.

As a child I grew up in a house like that. We had no running water, no electricity, and no indoor plumbing. If anyone would have called CPS on us and gotten me removed from the home, I would have been crushed because I had a wonderful childhood and grew up happy and secure. Just because things look bad doesn't always mean they *are* bad. KWIM? Sure, cleaning up would be the first thing they should do... but calling in CPS that will always result in the possibility of removing the child, is very very harsh. No one deserves that, especially not just for a dirty house.

Extend yourself, not in cleaning for them.. but in talking with them. Stressing the importance of the situation.

Anyway, just my 2 cent.

[janerose]

I'm right there with you. My parents have some close friends who live like this. Worse really cause neither of them work. We just figure they live off handouts and whatever they can collect from the government. Both the parents have major psych issues to boot.

They have a little girl who I think is about 4?? She's so sad. Always dressed in rags, filthy dirty, my parents have never even heard her talk. I'm really tempted to call CPS myself. My parents will never do it and it breaks my heart to think of that little girl being raised in that filth by those two nut jobs. :

Anyway, you're not alone in comtemplating this. I can't even imagine how hard it is to make this decision about a family member. I'm struggling a lot with it and they're just friends of my parents.



Holly

[party_of_seven]

Ugh! I don't know what to do.

I called CPS just to ask questions. I did not leave my name and number. I didn't give their name out either.

I described the situation, and they strongly urged me to go ahead and file a report, but I didn't. They said that what I described warranted follow-up.

I just don't want to be in the middle of it. I want to help. I want them to fix this. I don't want their kids to be removed from them. This is agonizing.