really upset by ds's shooting noises, play weapon games

[stirringleaf]

i am trying really hard to play with my son but it always degenerates into shooting games and bad guys. even crayons turn into weapons. thanks mainly to a little boy who is a bad influence who i never want ds to play with again. ( he has learned about swordfighing, saying "ill kill you" guns, and so on from this kid--but then, WHY is that boy, who he rarely sees, such a powerful influence compared to me and DH?)

i really really cant stand watching him running around shooting stuff, turning everything into a weapon. i just told him i refuse to play with him until he is ready to play a different game. but hey i am really stupid myself, i sat down and watched the Incredibles with him yesterday. DH says its normal ,that the other day he brought ds to play at the mall and all the other boys his age were acting like that too. hearing MY BABY making those terrble shooting noises all day long is breaking my heart and i am literally crying right now i just cant stand it.

is there any way to make it stop? has anyone had the experience of getting thier child to stop doing it? to me it is going hand in hand with other violence, like his new one of spitting in my face when he is mad.

i have freinds with mellower boys , and girls who are just so sweet and gentle, and i am so sad and jealous and i feel like a terrible mother because honestly i love him, but i really dont like what his personality is becoming, and that is a horrible feeling. its like i am failing as a parent already. i am sick right now and dont have the energy to redirect redirect redirect when i have to do it every 2 seconds. he is 3. it just feels so hopeless to me right now. please tell me he isnt going to be a monster.

he used to be so sweet. then he turned 3.

[Magella]

My 3.5 year old ds is the sweetest, gentlest, kindest, most thoughtful little boy I have ever met (no, I'm not biased ). BUT he loves swords and guns and superheroes. He likes to shoot bad guys and rescue people. He makes his dolls and spiderman dolls fight. He was doing this before he ever saw a toy gun or a toy sword-he just started pointing his finger and saying "I'm gonna gun you." (yes, he must've seen it somewhere-but it wasn't from our home).

So I let him play his gun and sword games? Yes. Do I join in sometimes? Yes. I think he'll outgrow it, and I don't think he's doomed to be violent when he's older. He is extremely patient and gentle, never hits his sister even when she's hitting him. I don't want to react to his interest in this kind of play in a way that makes him think something's wrong with him. He's so little still that he doesn't understand what violence really is, it's innocent (meaning his intentions are innocent) play. So I let him play it, knowing that I can teach him, now and as he grows, about how to treat people and about being gentle and about being peaceful.

Just my $.02.

BTW, my oldest daughter has never had any interest in toy guns or swords or play that involves those things or any other kind of violence, and she hits her brother and occasionally me-it started at around age 3. She also throws a mean tantrum and likes to throw toys. So really, I don't think toy guns necessarily have anything to do with whether a child becomes violent at some point. Again, that is merely my opinion.

[mamaduck]

I do think its normal, and I know of girls who went through this phase too. Around the same age. I try to remind myself that our children work through difficult concepts by means of play and pretend. It doesn't mean he wants to be violent or that he is trivializing violence -- it means that he is thinking hard about it and working out what it means. He is using play as a tool for doing this. Kids are so concrete -- many of them can't stop at just thinking something -- they have to act it out too. My 2 cents is that he *needs* to be doing this right now, and that he'll outgrow it and be fine.

[mountain]

I think children need to act out what they fear.

Obviously, they live in a crazy world that includes guns and violence. I shelter them and create a haven in our home from it. I've said, "I don't like guns, because they hurt people."

I grew up without TV in a really secluded house, hardly any friends at all. My mom was not into guns, and never bought us plastic toys. Our favorite game? Shoot & freeze, of course, like tag only with guns. I have many fond memories of being outside with my brother like this.

I didn't go to see Incredibles in the theatre b/c I heard it was full of gun/violence. The gps bought it for them, and I watched it with them. The only thing I can figure out: Make sure they have a firm grasp of what's "real" and what's "pretend" (movies, etc: "Do you think that person got hurt by that gun?" and my son would say, "No, mom, it's a cartoon movie")

It's a topic close to my heart, I worry too. There's already too much violence in the world without encouraging our kids to it. But if we stifle their role playing, will they get the impression that "this must be cool because my mom won't let me do it?" I fear that too.

[L.J.]

My boys very rarely play like that, but they do sometimes. If I am playing with them and they switch to play where it involves violence or killing, I tell them I'm done playing. They both know that I just simply don't like pretending that they die or are hurting or anything like it. When they do play, my oldest knows & has acknowledged that he knows I won't participate. We have discussed the why's of it & they seem okay with it.

[DebraBaker]

I never allowed guns into the house but my kids will turn anything into a gun. They've used tree branches and legos to make weapons, both my girls and boys.

I think there's a big difference between them making guns out of legos and making shooting sounds and the parent buying guns and encouraging gun play.

DB

[stirringleaf]

thank you very much for your perspectives, it makes me feel a little better.

he is also throwing huge tantrums, hits me really often, and throws toys, and as said above , now spits. he wont listen to me if i ask him to do something , he instead pushes it to the farthest limit he can. not just when he is tired, but all day long is a battle. i just feel it is so unfair to him to have a sick mother all the time, and i think it is starting to really show in his behavior. for those who dont already know..i hit my head in december and it took me 2 months to recover. in those 2 months is when all these behaviors intensified.

i am hoping when i recover from this flu (this is day 6) i will be able to tackle these problems with alot of love and good energy. anyway so i was lumping it al together cuz it seems that the violent play escelated at the same time as all the tantrums did.

i am sure i will work it out eventually, but MDC is where i always turn when things get this hard.

i have one question: what do you say to other parents? i have a friend who is very opposed to gun play as well and her son doesnt do it at all. so now MY son will be the "bad influence" and i really dont know what to do about that.

[Alkenny]

I totally agree with DebraBaker. I don't allow guns in my home niether, no violent movies or anything... and yet when my older two were smaller they turned everything into guns too.

It's pretty normal behavior, BUT you don't have to agree with it niether. If you're playing with him and he turns to "gunplay" you can do as a PP said and refuse to play with him that way.

[annethcz]

I agree with the PPs. My DS is almost 5, and has been in a shooting phase for several years now. We don't have guns in the house, but he'll make one out of another toy, or just pretend that he's holding one.

If DS shoots at me, I ask him to stop. I do not engage in gun play with him. I tell him I don't like playing that way. But I don't prevent him from engaging in pretend gun play. I do draw the line when he starts harassing one of his sisters, but that's only common courtesy.

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by stirringleaf

i have one question: what do you say to other parents? i have a friend who is very opposed to gun play as well and her son doesnt do it at all. so now MY son will be the "bad influence" and i really dont know what to do about that.

Maybe you should just be honest, and say...listen, this is what is going on right now with ds, we're having a tough time etc... Then maybe you two can talk about it.

I'm sorry you've been sick. It just makes it so hard for everyone. I hope you feel better soon

[water]

Oooh spitting, I have an idea for that, my 3yo ds has been doing that for awhile now.

Identify a couple of places where it's ok for him to spit (for us it's outside, in the sink, or he can get a washcloth and spit in the washcloth) and then everytime he spits, say as neutrally as you can :LOL (hard for me as I HATE spitting) "oh you need to spit? Let me get you a cloth/here let's go in the bathroom/outside" and then let him spit as much as he wants in the acceptable locations without making ANY reaction.

This really worked for me and the major spitting phase only lasted a couple of months. He still spits now but its less often and I react automatically to direct him and it pisses me off WAAYYY less now....

gunplay I haven't figured out myself yet, sigh, we are still in the middle of that one.

[stirringleaf]

say as neutrally as you can (hard for me as I HATE spitting) "oh you need to spit? Let me get you a cloth/here let's go in the bathroom/outside" and then let him spit as much as he wants in the acceptable locations without making ANY reaction.

so ignoring the fact that he is spitting on my face...thats OK to do? i will try it, but worry that he will see through it?

anyway i just wanted to let everyone know that your responses helped put this in perspective for me. i really needed ( and still need) to be more accepting of him. my own feelings about how i *want* him to be are getting in the way of me seeing him for who he is and appreciating that. i quit trying to talk him out of gun play 2 days ago. but i still wont engage in it with him, either.

the other thing i was doing was i was thinking he is alot more grown up than he is. i stopped doing some of the parenting "tricks" i used to do---i just thought they were beneath him , and inneffectual , for some reason. but in the last two days instead of tellihng him "shooting hurts people" etc i just start playing something different myself and he eagerly follows my lead when he is ready! DUH! it of course helped that my fever finally went down yesterday and i can function! but believe it or not this was really shocking to me to see it work, and i feel : i was being so lazy about doing it before.

and finally, the best part is today we went to target and bought him a baby doll. dh and i were talking about it and we have shocked ourselves with how boy-centric ds's toys have become. we just cater to the car obsessions and stuff without thinking. .--he played with the doll for an HOUR, giving it a bottle, putting it to sleep, having me dress and undress it, pretending it was crying, comforting it, etc...all this nurturing play was just waiting to come out of him! he even SANG the baby to sleep! OMG! SO SWEET! so i am definatly going to listen to that, and ask my sister the next time she sends a box of hand-me down toys from my nieces, to go ahead and include dolls and accessories! ( OK so the doll did spend a short amount of time flying around the room like a spaceship, but hey, thats alright )

[Marsupialmom]

I think you need to read Playful parenting. Help curb his behaviors.

I also think there are different temperaments of children. Your “peaceful” friends whose kids don’t do this has a completely different child. He most likely does something that horrifies her and she hopes you never find out.

I would also encourage you to read “The Wonder of Boys” by Michael Gurain. One of the things I did with my own son was I got caught up in ideology that was not “reality”. I use to believe everything “bad” in boys was taught. If you learn about the differences in boys and girls brains and how they work you can better understand and mold him to be a better person.

I am still amazed at how different my children are. I have purses and all three children use them differently. The play dolls together. I have heard my son (10) go from “death and destruction” to asking his sister to express milk so he can take their baby out, since he has killed all the monsters and made the play ground safe. LOL Then my dd going into “death and destruction mode” that her milk will explode if not eaten????????? Her milk is explosive . I just sit and listen. Hope they don’t ask me to play. LOL!!!

All my children are very gentle and loving in the real world. It is in their play they get out aggression and negative emotions. It is were they work things out.

I do tell my kids from time to time that they are getting rough, mean, et. I will clarify the situation. If it was 3 year old I would be more likely to guide the play into something nice or lesson/moral teaching or state I do not like playing that way because shooting is hurtful.

[Flor]

I agree you should read "Playful Parenting" the author talks a lot about how he deals with guns and violent play. I am 2/3 through the book, but so far I think he would say play with your son but redirect the focus of the play. He says kids get stuck in certain kinds of play when they are working things out. You might play guns with him, but show empathy for the victims of your "rampage" or something like that and see what happens.
Also, if it makes you feel better, my dss is always going through the house karate chopping and battling things. He is into swords and though he has never had more than a water gun, is into shooting. I used to hate this but now that he is nine and has never had a real violent moment in his life, I am coming to terms with it. He has never hit anyone or gotten in a fight. He is polite and sweet so it must not be too damaging to his spirit.

[stirringleaf]

for what its worth, my son doesnt own any toy guns or swords, either. i dont know if i gave the impression he does...

ok my concern today is that he hits me, and when he is mad about something he also says things like " i am going to kill you!"

is that within the range of normal for his age? yesterday we went to an easter party and some older boys got ds all riled up , chasing, throwing pinecones at kids, and play hitting. i had the hardest time getting him to settle down and play something else. he would say " But HE threw a pinecone!" and would pick one up and throw it.

he also does this thing where i say " dont throw any more pinecones" and he will pick them up and throw it and go "HA HA i just DID!!!!"

is this normal too? i just dont feel he respects me at all, and it is beyond frusterating.

[stirringleaf]

ok, i had to print out a paper for school, which meant getting on the computer for 10 minutes. ds the entire time was getting into things he shoulndt so i had to tell him to leave the room i am in. but he wouldnt go, so then i told him to go finish his cereal or else go to his room. he wouldnt do either, so then i picked him up cuz he started charging at me, and when i picked him up he started hitting me.

i put him in his room and shut the door " time out" for that.

DH will not work with me on another consequence for hitting.

i have raising your spirited child and positive dicipline. i havent read them fully yet but like the premise. DH wont read them. he uses alot of threats and coersion to get ds to listen to him. it works to a degree because ds doesnt hit dh as much, nor doesd he say " HA HA I DID IT ANYWAY" kind of thing.

anyway so all we have right now is to put ds in time out. over and over and over and over in a day he has to go to his room. but it is the only way i can get him to stop hitting me. if i try to talk to him he hits me while i am talking to him. or else he looks up at the ceiling and twuists his body all around and does everythign he can to not make eye contact. it makes me feel really awful! why deosnt he respond to talking like the books say kids will? what is wrong with my son?

i am posting again cuz i am feeling at my wits end again today, and really want to know if this is normal! it doenst seem right to me!

right now i can post this cuz of course now that i am not doing something important ds is happily playing by himself. a few minutes ago he was pulling my school essay out of the printer and scattering it everywhere , and trying to turn the printer off mid job.

[MPJJJ]

I think it is normal. I jokingly tell my friends sometimes that my boys are a bad influence on her son, because they got him into gun and sword playing. I hope she doesn't get upset about it, because we don't own any toy guns, and never condoned that type of playing. It started young, with them going so far as to nibble their toast into the shape of guns and shooting each other from across the table. It's just something that boys do, I think that it is a different energy that they need to get out. I can't explain it, I just accept it. That doesn't mean that they'll be getting toy guns for their birthdays, just that I don't get mad and make them stop when they are turning their legos into little rifles.

[water]

Originally Posted by stirringleaf

so ignoring the fact that he is spitting on my face...thats OK to do? i will try it, but worry that he will see through it?

I think I explained it badly, so not like pretending to be surprised "oh you need to spit?" but more like "oh, if you are going to spit, we do it in the bathroom, or in this cloth" so not like there is anything to see through, but giving you a tool to use instead of getting into a power struggle over it. good luck!

[stirringleaf]

gotchya. i have been doing that and its really working! wow! he is still doing it, but likes being sent to the bathroom to spit, lol

ok and the other thing. yesterday was rough for a while. but i read almost all of "raising your spirited child" last night and i feel alot better from that. for those of you who have it, chapter 6 about Intensity is really good for my situation. i think i am afraid of intensity, being an intense person myself. very insightful book. i also have realised that i just have a horrible self - esteem when it comes to parenting. working on that as well. thanks for being here and helping me to see how normal this all is. my ds has always been a little fiesty but i havent had to deal with this INTENSITY before, lol, its all new, and a difficult process for me.

as for DH not really wanting to try GD, i am for now just going to work really hard at prevention so that DH has fewer moments of neg interaction with DS. ( and me too) so yes, wish me luck! i wish i could be around some of you and your kids so i could see first hand how nrmal people deal with this stuff. i come from an abusive background , so its hard for me to know what is normal!

[dharmamama]

I agree with some of what people have already written, so I'll just add my "I second that"s.

--If you don't want to play violent games with your son, that's certainly your right, and you can tell him you won't play that way. You probably can't force him not to play that way, but you can set parameters on it.

--If your son spits in your face, he needs to know that that is disrespectful, rude, and won't be tolerated. Yes, it might be an age-appropriate expression of anger, but he's old enough to learn some other way to express his anger and to know that spitting in your face won't be tolerated.

--My son and my daughter have both hit me a few times. Each time I have carried them straight to their rooms and deposited them there until I felt calm enough to talk to them. I have then explained that we do NOT allow hitting in our family and that every time they hit they will be sent to their room until they feel the can be around us without hitting. Probably not a popular strategy here at MDC, but each of my kids learned very quickly that hitting is NOT tolerated. I WON'T tolerate it, whether it's age appropriate or not. I think that a 3 year old absolutely is old enough to learn a more acceptable way to express himself.


Namaste!