Surprised at wanting meds!

[sarahariz]

I just took a look at this forum for the first time yesterday as one of the threads was suggested in the Mothering.com weekly email. I am surprised at the number of people wanting to take, taking, or weaning off of medication. I am a psychologist and have an 8 mo old dd. I certainly have a history of depression in my family and I have frequently been depressed during my life. I've never taken medication, but I've been to lots of therapists-some of whom were helpful and some not. I also went through lots of intense emotions after dd was born-but I would never dream of taking psych meds-I'll tell you why.

I feel that persons should be able to choose to take medications if they so desire, but only after having been fully informed of all the risks. During my clinical training, I became quite suspicious of the claims made about the effectiveness of psych drugs, since often people had been on meds for years with little change, but would change as a result of a being in a good therapeutic relationship. As I began doing more reading and research, I found that all psych meds are overrated at best and damaging at worst.

Yesterday I posted a lot of info about SSRI'S on this thread, post # 14 http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=257942

I also posted some info here, #3: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=264532

I realize many people feel they have benefitted from medication. I just want to make sure people understand how the medication changes your brain and body before making the decision to use it. Put "brain damage ssris" in Google and see what you find. Here's one http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/...ain-damage.htm

My disenchantment with psychiatry and the "mental health" field resulted in my becoming informed about the problems within the field of medicine in general-including the traditional hospital birth practices in this country. This led me to choose a home birth with a midwife. I encourage all of you to become similarly informed about "mental illness" and the politics and money behind it. Remember those saying the ssri's are safe are essentially the same people who are saying that hospital births w/ a doctor are safer than births with a midwife-those that benefit monetarily from you doing it their way!

[Unreal]

I'm not on anti-depressants, nor have I ever been--but only because I lucked out with my last therapist and he really saved medication for when it was either an emergency or nothing else was helping lead to happy conclusion....

But I was REALLY close to going to see someone after ds2 was born...not just after...no I mean more like a year later...I just wasn't right, and I knew it (the only way I can describe it is to say the world goes gray....)
but I didn't 'cause I didn't know any good dr's around here
and it was just getting noticeable (my temper was bad tho....but rescue remedy helped that, thankfully)

Your post worries me because I'm sure mamas here want to be educated and make educated decisions...
most of the time that is what this place it about for me, at least....
but being able to function as a parent is more important.
way more.
I wouldn't want a mama here to go off meds that were helping, in hopes of finding a dr that was good..
you have to find the good dr first....and that isn't always easy
especially when all you want is for the world to stop so you can get off for a break, kwim?

I *do* think a LOT of people are overmedicated tho...my brother is one of them. He is bi-polar...but his meds, all 4 of them, have done nothing to improve his life....they just keep him from the swings.
But none of his drs will talk to him about improving his life, his health, his diet to help him deal with his mental illness....ya know?


anyhow..just my .02

[UUMom]

OK Well. I know at least two excellent homebirth midwives on SSRI's. I think it's 'better' not to take meds, but some meds really do help.

Be very careful when going off meds, and be very careful who you see when deciding to take meds. There is some really tremendous research on SSRI's -- and these meds really can help. Sure-- they are probably over-prescribed, but they can help.

Birthing babies at home, or having homebirths, or even seeing a homeopath etc does not mean some alternative type folks are not benefitting from certain meds.

Even crunchy folk (ime of 20 yrs of knowing crunchies) have taken meds under loving, insightful, and even alternative medical supervision.

[BabyOsMommy]

Sarah,
I appreciate all the time you are taking to attempt to inform people about antidepressants. My concern, however is that this forum may not be the place for this post. I know the struggle that a person goes through to try to come to the decision to get help for any type of depression, and postpartum depression is the hardest. The mamas here are all trying to reach the other side of their depression while taking care of babies and small children, and the guilt that goes along with ppd is enormous by itself. At least it is to me. I chose not to take meds this time around for my own reasons. I've been on them before, however at a different time in my life. 3 different meds (Zoloft, Paxil and Effexor) over 3years, and they saved my life from becoming something very dark. Counselling was also a large part of my recovery, as well as a support system of family and friends.

I agree that antidepressants are overprescribed. It's part of our culture's belief that there is a magic pill for anything. But I also don't want anyone here who is struggling and found relief from an SSRI to feel that they made a bad decision. It's like Carol said in my previous post:

If you find yourself thinking glumly, "I know I'd feel better if I..." (exercised, got more sleep, did whatever), but you CAN'T motivate yourself to do so, then meds can help provide the jump up to the level where you CAN start doing those long-term mood elevators. I speak from experience as someone who got so bummed when people said "you should exercise, then you'd feel better" b/c I was just happy if I made it through anything resemling a somewhat normal day. I didn't have nearly enough strength at the time to overcome depression enough to do that.

Again, I don't disagree with you on wanting people to become fully informed regarding risk with any drug that they are taking. But I also know that there are women here struggling with their decision to start taking meds. Most have agonized over it. It was a decision that they came to because they knew they needed help and they didn't want to miss the most important time of their babies lives because they were in a fog. PPD is an experience that is different for everyone. Because I chose to overcome it without meds this time does not mean that that is the right decision for someone else.

I think that the information that you posted is very useful and has a place here in MDC, but not in this forum.

Respectfully,
Annette

[JesseMomme]

I'm gathering from your title that 'you' the OP is surprised that people who frequent a NFL board like MDC (ie. "granola hippie crunchy etc") would be on meds for post partum depression.


I'm glad for you taking the time to put more balanced information out there about SRRIs and the like. I"m ITA that meds are overprescribed, that they mostly come from Dr's who'd also tell you hospital birth is the safest birth. Sometimes in my happy little bubble I get surprised that women want hospital births. I try to remind myself to not be so shocked and surprised.

I've been through PPD and Anxiety three times prior to my fourth baby. With no meds. I survived, and did more natural things, although I had no recources for any sort of therapy. I resisted meds for the longest time. In the meantime my parenting and my emotions seemed to just be on a subsistance level.

Can I add that most mothers who have PPD have no practical outside support, like good friends or family to oh tidy up their house for them, let them vent and be a shoulder to cry on? I feel I'm in that boat, and I'd rather have the shoulder to cry on. But meds is the sub par replacement.

After my third was a year old I sought out therapy and was literally turned away due to my insurance coverage. I didn't have the heart to keep looking and pursue it further. In tears I started finally taking zoloft. In a matter of days despite every side effect listed kicking my butt, I literally felt a vice grip loosen from my very brain. It was unreal.

SOrry my post is very disjointed, have an unhappy baby I'm typing around lol.

Is meds the end all be all answer? definately not. It was my last resort and I feel in my gut I'm sacrificing something I can't put my finger on for the sake of my kids. I do feel it was an informed choice.

[EllasMama]

I felt for a long time that meds were a bad solution to a problem I *should* have been able to overcome some other way. I tried and tried, but only slid further into depression. I had, and still have, an excellent therapist who is very knowledgeable about post-partum depression and referred me to numerous resources AND strongly supported my decision to take antidepressants.

I do not for one minute regret my choice to take meds. I suffered for well over a year with no improvement, fighting against the notion of taking antidepressants. It's all well and good to criticize a choice you've not had to make, but I'm not willing to feel bad and miss out on my life - and my daughter's life - because I'm unwilling to accept a medical solution to my problem.

I'm a very strong person and very informed about alternative ways of life, but they just did not work for me. Lexapro does.

BTW, I had a direct-entry midwife assist my waterbirth, teach childbirth ed classes based on "Birthing From Within", eat organic foods, etc.

I think your post is very distressing to the women in this forum who (like me) have truly struggled with the decision to take meds for their depression. Trust me, we feel bad enough already that we have an illness that leaves us needing antidepressants. It's really upsetting to have that hard choice criticized by someone who clearly hasn't been through all we had to go through to be able to find peace with that decision.

But that is how it often happens with this sort of thing...I certainly was anti-antidepressants before I experienced the depth of despair that I now am familiar with. I hope these responses will help you to find greater understanding for antidepressant medication and the women who need it.

Carol

[sarahariz]

Happy for the chance to dialogue

I realize that my post was distressing to many people. It wasn't my intention to upset people. It must be very hard to feel criticized for an agonizing decision and/or a decision made that you felt really benefitted you (the decision to take medication).

In my experience, feelings of depression are connected with shame, guilt, plus thoughts of I should/shouldn't have done something, I'm a bad person for doing x, y, or z, etc, and I can see how what I posted could be interpreted in that light. I've been there!

It isn't about people being "bad" for choosing to take anti-depressants, or whatever. It is about taking responsibility for the choice, whatever it is. If a choice meets your needs and values, that is what is most important. As we change, our choices change.

I feel that recovery from depression is a process, and all of us are at different places in that process. Within that process, I think there is room for exploring the pros and cons of medication.

It is really sad that the society we are living in has so few options for people who need more support, such that medication becomes the "only" option. There is a film I really like called, "We Don't Live Under Normal Conditions," about what causes depression http://www.aperiofilms.com/wdlunc.html. It is a thought provoking encounter between six people who have been diagnosed with depression, and challenges the notion that the cause of depression is intrapsychic or the result of abnormal brain chemistry. It is suggested that depression is a normal result of the stresses of our society. Medication certainly can be helpful at times, but I feel saddened that this has become our answer for personal and collective distress. Given the realities of a given situation, medication could be the best answer for a person seraching for relief. Again, though, I do think persons considering medication are best served by having a full range of information about it.

I think if one is trying to go off of medication, or not get on it in the first place, it is easier if one has support from a health care professional who is knowledgeable about such and will support the client's wishes. I agree that it is best not to stop medication without assistance, and that it must be done very slowly. It can be hard to find a professional who is experienced and willing to help someone get off of medication. There is a list of practitioners at
http://www.alternativementalhealth.c...ory/search.asp

Also, members of the International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology are mental health professionals who have knowledge in this area. http://icspp.org/component/option,co...page/Itemid,1/

Well, I have lots of other resources but I won't take up more space/time with them here, but if anyone is interested, PM me.

Thank you for the opportunity for discussing this!

[magemom]

FIL is type 1 diabetic. I do not fault him at all for taking a drug to replace what his body is missing.

I take Zoloft. I was very interested in my family's medical tree. I can trace the non functioning and functioning with meds family members back 4 generations. Obviously it is only the last 2 that have had any luck with meds.

The risks to my children (from me unmedicated) are greater than the risks to me from my med.

But I appreciate the links. Some docs give them out like candy.

[EllasMama]

I agree that it would be nice if there were more options besides meds available. I didn't have PPD early on and hadn't burned myself out completely when my DD was an infant...so it was surprising to find that depression can get worse AFTER the child is older for some people.

Back to the other options, in hindsight I would like to have had a near full-time nanny to live with me to wake up several times a night with my child until she was 3 years old. Of course, the nanny wouldn't have been able to nurse all night until her nipples were bleeding and infected, so that wouldn't really work, but at least maybe she could have done all the baby care in the day while I rested, exercised, and cooked myself nutritious foods. Except of course my child wouldn't accept anyone else's care and I'd have felt like a failure as an AP mom, but that's a minor point. The nanny could at least have cooked that nutritious food I needed. I could do without the nanny more often these days, though she would come in handy every morning this week when my daughter (who's 4) has woken up at 6:20 at the latest, after going to bed at 9 or later. And there are the business trips my husband takes every other week - I would need her to come live with me then, of course. I DO use a babysitter sometimes when DH is on a trip, just to have a sanity break, but of course that is a financial drain.

I'm among the very lucky ones b/c my parents moved 2 hours away when my daughter was a year old. I DO have good help from them sometimes, and I can afford preschool and have made some good friends who nurture my spirit. I can afford consultations with my naturopath about my depression (and have done over the past 2+ years); I get an occasional massage; I have a wonderful therapist I have been seeing for 2 years who gives me all sorts of suggestions for homeopathic remedies, vitamin supplements, and reading resources; and my husband is one of those good guys who actually does more than his part around the house and feels that childcare should be shared.

My old naturopath generally felt that prescription antidepressants were unnecessary. She gave me vitamin B shots, vitamin supplements, herbal antidepressants, suggested I send DD to preschool (I did), told me to get more breaks, eat more protein, etc. I did all that. It didn't help. I only sought a more Western medicine approach after I exhausted all those possibilities. In retrospect, I wish I had done so sooner.

So yes, I wish there were more resources for our society in general...but I feel like I had access to almost every resource short of someone on site to help me do my job as a mother.

If I want to be totally honest (and I know we are here at MDC, so smite me if you wish), I feel like striving for attachment parenting ideals was the single WORST thing I could have done to my health (physical and mental). I wasn't lucky enough to get a child who willingly slept, or who was "easy." It wore me out. It still does. But in some way I am glad of that, because had I had a child who was not spirited, or who took naps beyond the age of 1 year, or who wasn't always a couple hours below the "average sleep" level per age, I would likely think *I* had done something special (all that glorious attachment parenting) to make it so. Now I know that you get what you get, and you deal as best you can. I also know that the purist's approach to attachment parenting is not something that necessarily leaves the whole family better off in the end, just like eschewing medication doesn't always leave the family better off in the end.

Carol

[Oh the Irony]

Originally Posted by sarahariz

It isn't about people being "bad" for choosing to take anti-depressants, or whatever. It is about taking responsibility for the choice, whatever it is. If a choice meets your needs and values, that is what is most important. As we change, our choices change.

i've been on zoloft for about 6 months for ppd. you know, it does not meet my values, but at the moment it meets my needs. my needs, and those of my children, are more important right now than my values. i tried alternative treatments that did not work consistently. i could have spent thousands more dollars trying to make them work, but alas i did not have it to spend.

i guess what is perturbing about your post is that you *seem* a bit condenscending. the women here are extremely educated and tend to make informed decisions. you'd be surprised at what you will do if things get bad enough.

[ddandme]

There is so much I want to say...but I will leave it at, thank you for the references. There comes a point when you have to trust that what is being prescribed by a doc, midwife, therapist, even though in the long run is not the best option, in the NOW it is, and it works, and is needed. I applaud those of us on meds for admitting we need help, even if it is medicinal. A lot of moms don't ask for help in the first place, and that is what this forum is for. An outlet to begin the process of healing.

[annettemarie]

I am a little confused as to what you are hoping to accomplish here.
Do you want to share your own personal point of view of the questionable value of antidepressants?
Are you confused about why a site for natural family living would host discussions supporting the use of allopathic medicine?
Do you want to dazzle us with your clinical training and self control in not taking medication?
Do you just want us to feel bad?

You are starting out with a faulty premise. I don't think any of us want to take meds. I know I didn't want to spend the first six months of my daughter's life in a crying rage, wither, but it happened. And the medicines help. They do not, on their own, heal me, but together with self-care, diet, exercise, and therapy, they certainly play their part.

[laralou]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I am a little confused as to what you are hoping to accomplish here.
Do you want to share your own personal point of view of the questionable value of antidepressants?
Are you confused about why a site for natural family living would host discussions supporting the use of allopathic medicine?
Do you want to dazzle us with your clinical training and self control in not taking medication?
Do you just want us to feel bad?

You are starting out with a faulty premise. I don't think any of us want to take meds. I know I didn't want to spend the first six months of my daughter's life in a crying rage, wither, but it happened. And the medicines help. They do not, on their own, heal me, but together with self-care, diet, exercise, and therapy, they certainly play their part.

You aren't obligate to justify your choices to anyone, AM. Nor am I.

[JessicaS]

Of course no one *wants* to take medication.

I am currently on anti-depressants. I have a chronic illness which involves chronic pain. Anti-depressants are used to help with nerve pain as well as coping with being in constant pain.

I am not so sure one should make assumptions without at least walking in someone else's shoes.

I doubt you would want to try mine. They are rather uncomfortable.

[gilnikche]

Originally Posted by sarahariz

I just took a look at this forum for the first time yesterday as one of the threads was suggested in the Mothering.com weekly email. I am surprised at the number of people wanting to take, taking, or weaning off of medication. I am a psychologist and have an 8 mo old dd. I certainly have a history of depression in my family and I have frequently been depressed during my life. I've never taken medication, but I've been to lots of therapists-some of whom were helpful and some not. I also went through lots of intense emotions after dd was born-but I would never dream of taking psych meds-I'll tell you why.

Sarah,

While you have prefaced your remarks by stating that you have suffered from depression; I have to wonder if you have experienced such debilitating depression that you feel that it would just be better if you died.

I do not make such a statement lightly. This is how convoluted my thinking had gotten before starting on meds. I am now able to understand how someone can feel such despair that they would rather not continue to live.

I have spoken to many well meaning people in real life that have very righteously gone on (in length) about how If only I had tried hard enough, prayed hard enough, talked with a therapist, etc... that I would not need medication. I used to just try to ignore it or say something noncommital like "Oh, that's one way of looking at it." Well, no more. The day that I was nearly in tears from listening to such "well meaning" commentary; I decided to stop trying to "play nice & not ruffle feathers".

I will now tell folks that unless you have experienced passive suicidal thoughts, have been unable to do the simplest tasks (shower, brush teeth, get out of bed, sleep) then you simply have no idea what you are talking about. The same myths keep being told & it has to be stopped somewhere!

[sarahariz]

Yes, I have been suicidal in the past. Also, my maternal grandfather committed suicide and his father did as well. My mother was an alcoholic and died at age 53 of lung cancer caused by smoking. Because her liver was damaged by drinking, she could not receive the full dose of chemotherapy, so in a way, this was a self induced suicide. She did stop smoking when the cancer was diagnosed, but it was too late.

I apologize for coming across as condescending and re-reading my post I can see how I sounded that way.

I apologize for the use of the word "wanting" in the thread title.

I hope that the information I shared doesn't get lost in anger at the way I presented it. Yes, I could have done it differently and the responses I have recieved have taught me a lot.

[JesseMomme]

I'm glad you came back, really I am

I internally understand how my experiences and ever changing beliefs affect how I react to other people's experiences. My wording is bad, I sound a tad zelot-ish. I only hope I am better at it and a bit wiser now.

There are a lot of mommas here who seek to heal from PPD with out medication. If they do, that is wonderful, if they turn to meds, I do not hold it against them or think less of them or think they aren't 'as strong'. I'm not saying you were saying that, but you realize that your post was percieved that way by some so I won't babble on


Beautiful pictures of your dd by the way!!

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by sarahariz

Yes, I have been suicidal in the past. Also, my maternal grandfather committed suicide and his father did as well. My mother was an alcoholic and died at age 53 of lung cancer caused by smoking. Because her liver was damaged by drinking, she could not receive the full dose of chemotherapy, so in a way, this was a self induced suicide. She did stop smoking when the cancer was diagnosed, but it was too late.

I apologize for coming across as condescending and re-reading my post I can see how I sounded that way.

I apologize for the use of the word "wanting" in the thread title.

I hope that the information I shared doesn't get lost in anger at the way I presented it. Yes, I could have done it differently and the responses I have recieved have taught me a lot.

That was really big of you. Thanks.

[EllasMama]

Yes, thanks!!

I definitely don't want to need an antidpressant, but boy am I grateful I have that option available. It's much like cesarean birth - I sure don't want any woman to need one, but if that's the only way the baby can safely come out, then I'm so glad the option is available. You mentioned balance in an earlier post. Depression sucks, but it has been the single biggest teacher about balance for me. I realize that there is little to no black, white, right, or wrong. It's pretty much all grey! Also, I learned there are things you can't "tough out." I always thought I would be strong enough to overcome depression by sheer will. Whoops! The universe decided it was time to re-teach me that lesson. Now I get to chat with some amazing women and learn all about accepting things I cannot control. A mighty good lesson for a control freak like myself!

s Carol