irritated at a new mother - Page 9

[boston]

Originally Posted by nycapmom

We all have our weak moments right?

Originally Posted by nycapmom

The bottom line is yes, we should stop and think every time we see something happen to a child that we think is *wrong* (yep I do think certain things are wrong for *any* child not just mine) that maybe there could be all kinds of extenuating circumstance BUT the fact is that I still have a gut reaction that is my heart breaking for that baby/child.

you made more sense in the first quote. life isn't perfect. we cannot be perfect mothers. sorry your heart breaks sometimes . I know that feeling because my heart breaks sometimes too. but you can't demand your idea of perfection from everyone else around you.

[heartmama]

lifetapestry~I am responding to the general issue of criticism towards those who vent. That is the most interesting issue to me in this thread, whether or not it is for you.

The point isn't that the woman in the OP is or is not comparable to CIO or spanking. The point is that strong feelings and the need to vent should be expected when you post in a forum for a marginalized lifestyle.

This isn't a christian forum, or taoist forum. Personally I find I am happier when I practice non judgement. But I don't impose or expect that value here.

[mamawanabe]

Originally Posted by thismama

I do not think our harsh judgement of non AP mamas is about AP being marginalized. I think a lot of it is about this culture's tendency to motherblame - to harshly critique mothers for everything and not offer support.

I am very pro AP. I am also anti mother blaming (altho I do it, and it is done to me). And in my own life I am trying to find a balance between both things.

true.

And this is going to be flamed, I'm sure (its OK, I can take it). But why exactly do we care so much about whether newborns are not left overnight thier mothers or whether mothers choose to ff so as not change thier breasts? Why exactly do I care how other people are raising their kids when I know that happy childhoods and happy adults emerge, the end goal right, emerge from so many differnt kinds of parenting practices. We do have a stake in making sure vulnerable members of our society are not abused - but a night at an aunt's as an infant or forumla-feeding because mom has a large physchological stake in her breasts does not sound abuse, even in its loosest definition.

[heartmama]

"But why exactly do we care so much about whether newborns are not left overnight thier mothers or whether mothers choose to ff so as not change thier breasts?"

You have a right to indifference, but it isn't likely to persuade or expand on a discussion begun by someone who does have strong feelings about an issue.

People have many reasons why they care. I wouldn't presume to lump them all together either.

Why do you care whether people care? That may answer your own question.

[mamawanabe]

Originally Posted by heartmama

"But why exactly do we care so much about whether newborns are not left overnight thier mothers or whether mothers choose to ff so as not change thier breasts?"

You have a right to indifference, but it isn't likely to persuade or expand on a discussion begun by someone who does have strong feelings about an issue.

People have many reasons why they care. I wouldn't presume to lump them all together either.

Would not characterize it as "indifference." I would characterize it "understanding" - understanding that different choices can lead to the same end goal - happy children.

[heartmama]

When it isn't clear to someone that the child is happy, that is often the cause for a vent.

What is happiness?

People who spank and demand rigid discipline will insist it makes their child happier, and free's them from guilt over their actions by having a "punishment" to wash away their sins.

To them that is happiness.

To me that would not be happiness.

So there is a forum for people who think that is happy and right to go talk, and there is a forum for people who do not think that is happy and right to come talk.

You can decide what happiness looks like to you, and find like minded people to share that with.

[mamawanabe]

Originally Posted by heartmama

When it isn't clear to someone that the child is happy, that is often the cause for a vent.

What is happiness?

People who spank and demand rigid discipline will insist it makes their child happier, and free's them from guilt over their actions by having a "punishment" to wash away their sins.

To them that is happiness.

To me that would not be happiness.

So there is a forum for people who think that is happy and right to go talk, and there is a forum for people who do not think that is happy and right to come talk.

You can decide what happiness looks like to you, and find like minded people to share that with.

Again, this is a thread about a mom who left her newborn with an aunt. We can create a strawman (saying that judging this mama is wrong is just like saying judging a mom who spanks is wrong), but not sure how pertinent it would be.

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by thismama

I think a lot of it is about this culture's tendency to motherblame - to harshly critique mothers for everything and not offer support.

I think it is about WOMEN's tendency to harshly critique each other. It's like we just can't wait to tear each other down. I don't know why that is, but it sure seems to be true.

[dharmamama]

I think there is a lot of conflict at MDC between those who have a very wide definition of what consititutes poor parenting (so wide that the majority of the parents in this country fall into it) and those who have a very wide definition of what constitutes good parenting (again, so wide that the majority of parents in this country fall into it).

There is also conflict between those who see a certain action as "a choice I wouldn't make" and those who see that action as "a choice that shouldn't be made."

Yes, the people who come to MDC tend to have a lot of common ground when it comes to theory. In actual practice, those theories are implemented in a wide variety of ways, and, once again, that doesn't make any one parent more right than another.

Namaste!

[IdentityCrisisMama]

: : :yawning:

[NYCVeg]

*gingerly sticking my toe into the fray*

I am feel incredibly blessed that I found MDC BEFORE ttc. If I hadn't, I feel certain I would have 1) gotten every test in the book when pregnant, under the exclusive care of an OB 2) expected to get any and all interventions during labor and maybe wanted a voluntary c-section 3) vaxed and circed w/o even questioning those decisions 4) attempted to breastfeed, certainly, but not with the dogged determination that I plan to approach it now Etc.

My point is: not everyone has the benefit of researching these things before having a child. In an ideal world, this would not be the case. But the mainsteam IS mainstream--it is what most people know. More than that, most people don't even know that there is more to know--i.e., that research into these things is actually necessary. I think many people truly believe they are doing the best for their children, even when they make choices that many of us wouldn't agree with.

That said, I respect the OPs right to vent (and I notice we haven't seen hide or tail of her since that original post, which suggests to me that she's been scared off), if not her apparently public distaste for the mother at her group. To me the helpful response would have been to invite the mother to bring her baby to the next group and to point out that she had a fantastic resource she could draw on if she felt overwhelmed or confused by her new role--a room full of experienced parents. That's just my opinion.

My sister has made many parenting choices that I personally disagree with. On the other hand, I know she is a loving mother who really feels like she is doing the best she can for her dd, and I expect her to have a wonderful relationship with her dd. So, yes, privately I might judge her a little--I can't help the way I feel. But I would never make her feel guilty about her choices (she knows that sometimes her choices are not ideal, but the best of several imperfect options) or accuse her of being a bad mom. I am not in her shoes--I don't know what it's like to negotiate her particular set of responsibilities and problems. If I felt I had something to offer that might help her, I would volunteer information--if I had known more about bf when her dd was weaned, for instance. But I don't think angry judging of anyone--the OP, the mother at her group, the posters who objected to the original post, my sister--is particularly helpful.

[Rainbowbird]

I agree, you really can't judge a person unless you know all the facts. And then there is that part about not judging others anyway...

I would bring my newborn along, but maybe she had her own good reasons for not doing so. Maybe she didn't want to expose him to germs. Maybe she really needed a break. Maybe she totally trusts her aunt and that is the norm in her family, as another PP said. Maybe she had PPD and just felt she had to get away. Maybe...there are lots of maybes...

I left my 4 week old son with my mother for the afternoon while I drove to a doctor's appt. that was an hour away. I felt more comfortable leaving him in my mom's capable hands than driving through city and highway traffic with a newborn. I had PPD and just felt like, I can't handle it. What if I get into an accident? What if my baby cries and cries and I can't comfort him? Etc. (Since I had been so sleep-deprived that I actually backed into my mother's car when I left the driveway that day, I think I was right to leave him with her!)

Now I look back and laugh, and think how silly I was. How could I have felt so inadequate and scared? But we are all at different places post-partum. We are not all prepared to be perfect mothers in the same way at the same time.

So I concur with the others who say, "Judge not..."

[soccerchic21]

Originally Posted by nycapmom

You are absolutely right but couldn't that also be the case with the mom in the grocery store walloping her kid? Maybe she just momentarily lost it? Maybe she skipped her meds that day? Maybe she just lost it but will cry later about it? We all have our weak moments right?

I am sorry I personally cannot group this particuar mother with a woman who hits her child in the grocery store. IMO leaving your child with a relative and spanking are two separate issues. We need to remember that we don't know her aunt....what if her aunt is a breastfeeding mother and breastfed that baby while the woman was away? Maybe she was too embarrased to say that because not too many people in the mainstream world wet nurse.

[Leilalu]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

No, I really don't think we need to set an example that people will follow. Because as this thread (and thousands of others like it) have shown, there is no one best way to do things, and saying that we need to set examples for others is just another way of saying that "our" way of doing things is the right way.

It simply isn't true, and it's not productive to filet other people who do things differently than you do.


Namaste!

Well, if our way isn't right than what the heck are any of us doing here?We obviously beleive it is the right way. I think in anything there is always truth, gray area, and things that don't really count either way. I think that this board has grasped alot of truth on serious parenting issues.
That said, there is always choice. People can choose to live however they want. Free will. We all have a right to it. But there are always consequences and if I can help someone to avoid negative consequences in their life and show them a better way-then I want to do that. If our only goal as NFL people is to watch our own backs than that is a very shallow goal.
And I am not nessecarily saying all the ways I do things are the "right way", but I do know a few things. And I don't want to fillet anybody.

[heartmama]

"Again, this is a thread about a mom who left her newborn with an aunt. We can create a strawman (saying that judging this mama is wrong is just like saying judging a mom who spanks is wrong), but not sure how pertinent it would be."

I think this thread is about more than the actions of the mother of the newborn. I think this thread has evolved into a discussion about the OP's reaction to that mother, and also, whether the OP will get support when she expresses that reaction here.

I think the OP was coming from a place of concern over attachment issues, and that is why she posted about this here. I support her posting here, whether or not I would have reacted the same way, because I recognize *why* she felt what she did, and I recognize why she chose to vent about it here.

[nycapmom]

Originally Posted by soccerchic21

I am sorry I personally cannot group this particuar mother with a woman who hits her child in the grocery store. IMO leaving your child with a relative and spanking are two separate issues. We need to remember that we don't know her aunt....what if her aunt is a breastfeeding mother and breastfed that baby while the woman was away? Maybe she was too embarrased to say that because not too many people in the mainstream world wet nurse.

I am not equating the OPs story with spanking at all. I am responding to the posts re leaving a newborn for a 2wk vacation. Some responded that we should not judge that... it's her choice, etc.

[Leilalu]

Originally Posted by thismama

Well nycapmom, I think this thread is about balancing a) the way "we" feel children ought to be parented, and b) examining how valid it is to spend our energy judging other parents. I know for myself I struggle between my parenting philosophy and my desire to refrain from judging particularly mothers in a society that is waaaay too heavy on the mother-blaming as it is.

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by BlueStateMama

We read it differently. I thought she was irritated and bit her tongue...I took the "mouth hanging open" part as figurative..I thought she was talking more about how she was feeling than *actually* staring at her aghast, mouth literally open in horror.

Well she said the other women started talking to the new woman and asking her routine type questions because they could tell she (the OP) was upset/angry. That's not doing a particularly good job of hiding it is it?

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

I think there is a lot of conflict at MDC between those who have a very wide definition of what consititutes poor parenting (so wide that the majority of the parents in this country fall into it) and those who have a very wide definition of what constitutes good parenting (again, so wide that the majority of parents in this country fall into it).

There is also conflict between those who see a certain action as "a choice I wouldn't make" and those who see that action as "a choice that shouldn't be made."

Yes, the people who come to MDC tend to have a lot of common ground when it comes to theory. In actual practice, those theories are implemented in a wide variety of ways, and, once again, that doesn't make any one parent more right than another.

Namaste!

I think you summed up the conflict that's happening in this thread (and across MDC) very nicely.

I just want to point something out to those who think MDC is going down the tubes and becoming some "mainstream" board - when people post here for support of their NFL or AP lifestyles, I think the support at MDC is just wonderful. Lots of great ideas and support from all corners. The real conflict happens when someone posts complaining about someone else's parenting style, IMO. Not when they're posting asking for support themselves (unless they're posting asking for support in complaining about another's parenting style, LOL).

I don't think MDC is becoming any less AP or NFL - but there are many here who want it to be less judging of those who AREN'T AP and NFL.

Just my $.02.

[mamawanabe]

why I am here and advocating

Originally Posted by Leilalu

Well, if our way isn't right than what the heck are any of us doing here?We obviously beleive it is the right way. I think in anything there is always truth, gray area, and things that don't really count either way. I think that this board has grasped alot of truth on serious parenting issues.
That said, there is always choice. People can choose to live however they want. Free will. We all have a right to it. But there are always consequences and if I can help someone to avoid negative consequences in their life and show them a better way-then I want to do that. If our only goal as NFL people is to watch our own backs than that is a very shallow goal.
And I am not nessecarily saying all the ways I do things are the "right way", but I do know a few things. And I don't want to fillet anybody.

I don't think AP (defined as a set or practices) is the right way for all families. It is right for me tempermentally, and I hope it fits withmy kids' personalities, but if not AP (defined as responding to your kids' needs) should help me adjust accordingly.

I was raised fairly non-ap, and I think I would have done better in an ap household. My brother, however, THRIVED in my household. My parents' parenting ideal of early independence was a good fit for him.


Re advocating AP. For me it is not about showing parents the best way to raise their kids, but about showing them ways they maybe hadn't thought of before. It might or might not not be the best way for them to go, but if they never met anyone who co-slept, than they wouldn't know the choice was there.