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What is Labor?  

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I know on the surface that sounds like a dumb question.

I've been studying, as I'm sure many others on this site have, health, mind/body, naturopathy, nutrition and birth for a while. Based on my research about pregnancy and childbirth, I've got an idea (and not a very original one) about labor and I'd like to know what other folks think.

The problem with my thought, and therefore I ask you to be open minded about it, is that it smacks fully in the face of current modern, mainstream, western, middle class thinking about what labor means and what pain is involved. And I realize this forum isn't exactly mainstream.

Based on my reading of various sources, and in particular, Dr. Grantly Dick Read (this is the UK spelling of his name, the US adds a dash between Dick and Read, so a search should bring up either.) His book is entitled, Childbirth Without Fear. He attributes the pain of childbirth to fear instilled by technology, etc.

Extrapolating on this information, the woman who originally conceived Hypnobirthing(.com), Marie Mongan, stated that due to the fear instilled by the church attributed to "eve's curse" and certain laws making it illegal for anyone to help a birthing mother, because if she dies in childbirth, or shortly thereafter, it's god's will. And of course most women of the time weren't in control of their reproduction, anyway, so they lived in fear of childbirth.

Reading further Fredrick LeBoyer and Michael Odent, two more recent pioneers of natural childbirth, and the techniques they describe.

Donna Fahri's book on breathing includes breathing techniques for all sorts of occasions, including childbirth. One breath in particular was the moaning breath, in which you take air into your nose and breath it out with a low moan through your mouth during contractions.

Dr Dick Read suggests muscle relaxation, in which you totally release all your muscle resistance before and during labor to allow your uterus to do it's work. Like, if someone picks up your arm, you don't resist, and it flopps back on the bed, but with all your muscles.

Anyway, this into consideration, and the fact that the uterus is a large, multilayer bundle, not sack, of muscles whose job is to 1) pull open the cervix (which is very tough to do because it's been clamped shut for 9 months and it's a huge clamp) and 2) during the 2nd phase of labor constrict to move the baby into the birth canal.

My thought is that with all this muscle activity, labor is more like running a marathon than like the excrutiating ripping and pushing that we've been generally sold it is. For this reason I believe that normal pain killers aren't that effective at relieving the muscle strain, but epidurals are because they cut off all feelings.

Do you think if we weren't afraid and if we used proper relaxation and breathing (not the hyperventalation of lamaze, but deep breathing as utilized by a marathoner or yogi) that perhaps birthing wouldn't be as demonized as it is?

I can acknowledge that my research may be lacking, but so far, it seems right on, and the evidence from the mass media and allopathic institutions seems to differ. And it feels true to me, intuitively.

Personal experience bears me out. But I wanna know if anyone else feels this way or has any thoughts or experiences that would add to this theory?

Sorry it's so long, could have been longer, I left a lot of resources out to cut down on space...

thanks.
post #2 of 25
My first birthing experience was a horror - I did lamaze, it was horribly painful and I ended out having a c-section. I read Grantly Dick Read during my second pregnancy and took some Hypnobirthing classes. My second birthing experience was wonderful! It was not painful - there was pressure, but no pain. I had one surge that was very intense, but that was the last one before pushing. My experience supports the theories of Grantley Dick Read and Maria Mongon.
post #3 of 25
I agree with you (and Dick Read, and Mongan, and others) that a large portion of the pain of labor is based on fear--but I think it's important to acknowledge that there are also definite physiological causes of labor pain, a baby presenting in a less than optimal position comes immediately to mind.

There may be many physiological causes of pain that we don't even know about, since we're so conditioned to experience birth as a "horror," we (the Western world) haven't looked for underlying conditions that cause pain.

I had a painless labor and nearly painless birth, but I attribute it more to my body and my baby's body working well together, rather than an enlightened state of mind.
post #4 of 25
You should read Dr Bradley. This is not new, it's just taking a long time to get out... there is a lot of disinformation and a lot of it comes from the docs.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 

bradley

i read dr bradley. i found him to be somewhat arrogant and not saying anything new. he actually trained with dr dick read, and took a lot of credit for his work.

to qualify, i read his husband coached childbirth book, which is intended for men, this may explain my bias, but only insofar as his arrogance.

but as far as current information that's available goes, he does provide good info on natural childbirth.

cheers,
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 

orgasm angle...

here is something interresting i'd picked up.

some women actually orgasm during labor.

and there's a reason for that. oxytocin, the hormone which contracts the uterus in labor, also is released during orgasm. so this may be why they suggest sex to jump start labor. they should be more specific and say "orgasm", everyone knows sex isn't necessarily going to lead to orgasm...

also, oxytocin is released when the baby nurses or by stimulating the nipples. hence the suggestion to get the baby to nurse after birth or stimulate nipples to start labor. and it also explains that funny look some nursing mothers get...

i can't imagine being all stressed and in pain while orgasming, but it might be nice to have a little pleasure when the little tyke makes an appearance.

one caveat, it has been mentioned to avoid strong orgasms during earlier pregnancy, this is probably also why.

Just thinking overtime...
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 

pain free

I came across this site, probably from another post, and thought it was applicable here:

http://lauriemorgan.com/fsbook1.html

She talks about unattended birth, which is a personal choice, and I realize this thread is in the midwives/doulas forum. (wonder if it should be moved to Homebirth...) but I think her sentiments about birth without pain are very good.

Another thought: I was reminded of some statements I'd read from natural childbirth advocates who glorified in the "pain". As if it's some sort of right of passage. As if if there wasn't pain, it wasn't birth. I think this is an older idea, perhaps from the 80's. At the time, I thought that type of talk just makes epidurals sound that much nicer. Why should there be pain? I wouldn't expect it to be comfortable the whole time, but pain throughout?

Another thing is the lame science angle that we as a species can't evolve further because birthing is just so much more intense for our species than for others. I think that sentiment is narrow minded on so many levels. And I keep seeing it on Discovery and other places. Gar.

I think as the author of the above site states, we should all be able to become better informed and take an active part in making birthing what it should be. and not what anyone else has in mind.

peace
post #8 of 25
yes, i think that there is something to your thoughts definitely. have you checked out laura shanley's site (www.ucbirth.com) or jeannine parvati baker's (www.freestone.org)? both have many great revolutionary ideas for birthing.

we did a freebirth/lotus birth w/our second baby. it was an amazing contrast to our first attended homebirth (though definitely not pain-free). we did lots of work on "untraining" ourselves on what our cultures ideas of birth may be. I think the fear/pain cycle and the work/reward cycle you are refering to all come into play of course. i think this issue is very multi-faceted though. there were many issues i came up against during this process called pregnancy. i think each person must also investigate what inner wounds/truths they hold that may prevent them from giving spontaneous, estatic birth.

i think many of our accepted hegemonic ideas are suspect and need to carefully examined. JMHO
anyway,
post #9 of 25
I don't get the whole Bradley thing either. In the Bradley classes they must not make "Husband Coached Childbirth" required reading? Or have all the offensive parts been edited out in recent editions?

Like mamallama, I think it's important to acknowledge the purely physiological causes of pain in labor so that we can address those causes. You can be completely free from fear and it's not going to make one whit of difference if that posterior baby is pressing on your sacrum!

Re: your thoughts on glorifying in the pain and the lame science angle, this is something that really bugs me about Birthing From Within, which is a decent book in other respects, but anyway she talks about pain not only as if it is a given, but as if it is a necessity. :

I'll be back tomorrow with my thoughts about labor rather than just complaining about other's thoughts about labor.
post #10 of 25

labor is a workout!

I
post #11 of 25
Of course, the healthier the mind and body, the smoother the functioning of the body, no matter what it's doing.

What I got out of mystichealermom's marathon analogy was that in a marathon (as opposed, say, to a sprint) endurance is key. And endurance is something that women are biologically good at. That's what the fat is for. Normal physiological birth is of course *not* like a marathon in that a marathon is an athletic event that requires much training, extreme physical exertion, and will to start, maintain, and finish the action.
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Agreed, a marathon is a whole different undertaking, birth happens. I was referring to the marathon when you're "in" it.

I found this article after following another thread on unassisted birth, sort of embarassing considering the source, I hadn't read this one, but I thought it was applicable to my rant:

http://mothering.com/11-0-0/html/11-...ic-birth.shtml

Thanks for listening.

MHM

edit: it's not just the endurance, a marathon is run in the mind as well. it's not like running just one mile.
post #13 of 25
I am always aghast at the horrible painful births depicted on tv. A friend of mine who had a c-section asked what labor was like and I said it was just that: HARD WORK. Yes, some pain, but more from the hard work--the putting your allness into it. I have to acknowledge of course there will most likely be pain--after all there are a zillion nerve endings down there all being squeeze pinched, pulled and irritated to heck. Back labor is back labor..I don't care what anyone says.
post #14 of 25
I can agree with that. The more I think about my labor almost two years ago, the more I think the only time I was truly in *pain* was when I should have been pushing, but didn't because the nurse said "hours to go". I told dh I felt like I needed to push and finally the nurse checked me... sure enough I was 10cm and I was 'allowed' to push shortly thereafter.

The contractions were showing on the monitor I was tied to, but I wasn't feeling them like pain.

I'm looking forward to this birth experience- it's a rite of passage, not to be endured with medications and epidurals. NO ONE is going to stick things near my spine!

PS- this time I am working out (1/2 aerobics, 1/2 strength training) three times/week and I have had a wonderful time! No m/s, no nausea. Just tired at the beginnning, but that's gone now!

2nd trimester here I come!
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
The thing that bugs me the most about discussing your impressions of how birth will be is that people TELL you how it's going to be, as if there's no changing things. When I told people I thought it could be like this or that and even if it wasn't for them, I thought they could share their views with me, that perhaps they knew, inside, even if their actual experiences differed, and the usual reply was - no, it hurts. it hurt me, it'll hurt you. I don't know if they thought they were sparing me hurt feelings by having my impressions shattered, but I just got the feeling that they wanted it to hurt me because they were hurt and that's the way it goes. I don't know if that makes sense. But, it seemed to me that that kind of negative attitude perpetuates the fear and aversion to birth. And it supports the invasive technology that (potentially) causes bad outcomes.
post #16 of 25
I had about 7 hours of labor with DS #1. I cannot tell you exactly when it began because I wasn't aware of pain so much as "work" going on. I can tell that the parts of labor that were painful to me is when I was trying to figure out what was going on and what I should do next instead of letting my body lead me. When I relaxed and lost myself in "labor land" it was incredibally intense, but not painful. When I was "working at" making the next thing happen, it hurt like hell. I never took a class or practiced ant pain coping technique, which I think was very useful since I didn't have someone else's perceptions and experiences dictating my own. I have a feeling that #2 is is gonna go alot faster ans smoother as I let go of even more of my baggage regarding what will happen when...blah blah blah. It will happen.

As a side note: I fully agree that improperly positioned pelvis, uterus and baby will create a more painful outcome regardless of the mom's attitude. I have seen this first hand when adjusting a woman (I am a chiropractor) during labor and removing the interference to the natural process.
post #17 of 25
I certainly agree with what you've written. I think if you keep in mind that the pain involved is for a good reason-sort of like when you get a deep tissue massage and it hurts at the time but then your muscle aches & pains are gone for awhile afterwards-that it will help you cope and not be so afraid. I always kept in mind during my labor that this pain was a GOOD thing: it was helping my beloved son into the world. It wasn't the pain of injury or illness. My midwife's husband is an Oriental Medicine Man-he says, "pain is the great teacher" and I thoroughly believe that statement. Going thru childbirth with my beautiful son naturally and listening to my body and keeping things in perspective taught me a lot about how strong I really am, physically and emotionally.
Women ARE taught to fear childbirth, taught to believe it's the worst pain they'll ever experience (it's not), taught that it's dangerous and they may die, taught that they have no control over what happens to their bodies during it and they're better off in a hospital as if they're sick.
Every woman perceives pain differently, and some have more painful expereinces than others during childbirth. My own labor came on hard and fast from the beginning and never let up-it only accelerated and yes, it was painful. Did I ever feel like I would DIE? No. I was lucky enough to have done plenty of research and questioning, I had a wonderful supportive partner with me, a gentle, experienced midwife and 2 lovely doulas to support me and help me stay focused and amazed with what my body was doing. I think education makes a big difference.
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
When I asked my mom, she said, yup, it hurt, it hurt like heck.

And I was disheartened. And then I thought to ask, was it the worst pain ever?

And she said - no, when I broke my arm that was much worse.
post #19 of 25
Well, childbirth was by far the worst pain I've ever experienced, but then I had back labor, which I don't believe is normal. Aside from that, it wasn't a big deal at all; at the worst, the contractions were like strong menstrual cramps.

Part of the problem is that women are taught that the pain is necessary to the process -- Pam English perpetuates this myth in the popular "alternative" birth book Birthing From Within. So when a woman is expecting pain, afraid, flat on her back, treated like a child, not allowed privacy, kept "in her head", and subjected to interference and intervention, the unreasonable and unnecessary pain that results from this is deemed "normal", "just the way it is." It's not just the way it is. Pain is nature's way of alerting us to a problem. Sometimes, pain occurs in the process of fixing a pre-existing problematic situation -- as with deep tissue massage. There is no situation in nature that I can think of in which pain is considered part of a normal non-problematic process -- except birth. This seems completely illogical to me.

In certain periods of history and in certain cultures, sex has been nearly universally considered by women to be a miserable duty. And sex can indeed be excrutiatingly painful given the right mind-set and environment. There is no logical scientific reason that
physiologically normal birth should be inherently painful, any more than sex is. It is an assumption based only the fact that so many do experience pain.

Of course, many women experience painless birth. This is clearly not a malfunction of their bodies, because their babies are born normally and healthily; nor is it "just the way they are" because these same women experience pain when their bodies are injured or in ill health, just like everybody else. So how do they do it? I think this is an important issue to examine, rather than just writing these women off as "flukes of nature" or some such thing. They have discovered something that other women could benefit from -- if only the latter were not so indoctrinated in the belief that pain is a normal and necessary part of the process and therefore to be accepted and even welcomed.
post #20 of 25
Aloha,
I just wanted to add that it's good to study birth and to try and understand it so that you are prepared... BUT...
I think it's really important not to be too much in your head! Labor requires trust in your body's ability to birth your child- you can think all you want about what's going on and how you want to birth and what it will be like, but when it comes down to it, it's all about trust and working with your body- in that moment.
I know that I was way in my head for my first birth and it was looong and hard. I ended up transporting to the hospital (though it was a beautiful birth still). It took a lot of time to learn to have that faith in my body. My second birth then was a nice 4 hours of active labor and a beautiful waterbirth.

Good luck to you!
Karen
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