I'm a semi-reformed "slob" (I really don't like that word), Pajamamama. Unfortunately, my parents didn't/couldn't teach me out to clean - the cleaning person came once a week to do the dishes (they did get done inbetweentimes, but only the stuff that could go in the dishwasher), clean the bathroom, change the bedding, pick up around the house, put things away, etc. So I didn't have people to model off of once I did decide I wanted less mess - so that part has been a struggle for me. (Certain amounts of clutter I still don't really mind, and am pretty good at putting away when I want to - it's the actual cleaning I'm not really good at yet.)
That said, I did eventually decide I wanted to be cleaner and neater, and set to work at it. I guess I'm just an unschoolar at heart - I really don't learn anything until I want to, and I really believe most kids don't. I've seen what happens to clothes and toys and - worst of all! - books when they aren't taken care of, so I have great motivation to keep that from happening to the things I've paid for and care about.
I also experienced violations of my space, when the cleaningperson would decide to tackle my room, and I'd come home and my room wouldn't be the way I left it, and I didn't know where to find anything, and I didn't know how (and didn't want to) keep it looking like that. I think those violations encouraged me to reassert myself and my autonomy by making it look the way I wanted it to look again. So my suggestion from that experience is that if you really are going to insist that your child's room look a certain way, at least let (make!) them do it. I still think it's a violation, but one they have slightly more control over.
I also really like the suggestions of keeping your child company while they do a big cleanup (even a daily one) - but I also think it's great that those of you who would get too stressed out by it can recognize that and see that it wouldn't be best for either of you.
Here's are a couple ways to guage if your child's messiness is adversely affecting them (and therefore whether you really need to help them change for their own sake, as opposed to - legitimately, you certainly have that right - making them change to suit you/their family):
1) How do they feel about having friends over/spend the night? Are they willing to clean - voluntarily - before that happens? Are they willing to have the friends see/stay in their rooms? Or are they unwilling to have friends over, or get very stressed about the thought of others knowing what their rooms look like?
2) How do they feel about their clothing? Does it embarrass them to wear dirty/mismatched clothing? Do they insist you buy new things for them because they can't find (or have ruined) their old ones? Or are they fine with/oblivious to all that?
3) Do they seem to navigate their room all right? Do they mostly know which pile of junk their favorite toy is under, or are they as lost and as horrified as you? Do they avoid that space in favor of the neater family areas, or do they seem to prefer the mess?
4) When confronted - gently and lovingly - by you about the way their room is, do they act defensive, angry, flustered, or do they really not see it as a problem the way you do? Are they just exasperated that you're on their case again, or do they have an extreme emotional reaction? (This may be hard to distinguish, given all the baggage and undertones that go along with anything family members say to each other, especially to pre/teens, but how they react is a good indication of how they feel.)
Anyway, you may decide that living in your house/with your family incurs certain obligations of cleanliness whether they like it or not, but it might help if you know that they're only doing it for you, or if they really need help in learning cleanliness (because they want it, even if they can't express that desire directly). And, many don't enjoy the act of cleaning, but really are better off with a clean space, and need your help in creating that - others truly don't get impeded by mess and junk, and they may be better left alone.
Anyway. Just some rambling thoughts. If it's helpful to any of you at all, let me know. If you find it to be just junk, don't.
That said, I did eventually decide I wanted to be cleaner and neater, and set to work at it. I guess I'm just an unschoolar at heart - I really don't learn anything until I want to, and I really believe most kids don't. I've seen what happens to clothes and toys and - worst of all! - books when they aren't taken care of, so I have great motivation to keep that from happening to the things I've paid for and care about.
I also experienced violations of my space, when the cleaningperson would decide to tackle my room, and I'd come home and my room wouldn't be the way I left it, and I didn't know where to find anything, and I didn't know how (and didn't want to) keep it looking like that. I think those violations encouraged me to reassert myself and my autonomy by making it look the way I wanted it to look again. So my suggestion from that experience is that if you really are going to insist that your child's room look a certain way, at least let (make!) them do it. I still think it's a violation, but one they have slightly more control over.
I also really like the suggestions of keeping your child company while they do a big cleanup (even a daily one) - but I also think it's great that those of you who would get too stressed out by it can recognize that and see that it wouldn't be best for either of you.
Here's are a couple ways to guage if your child's messiness is adversely affecting them (and therefore whether you really need to help them change for their own sake, as opposed to - legitimately, you certainly have that right - making them change to suit you/their family):
1) How do they feel about having friends over/spend the night? Are they willing to clean - voluntarily - before that happens? Are they willing to have the friends see/stay in their rooms? Or are they unwilling to have friends over, or get very stressed about the thought of others knowing what their rooms look like?
2) How do they feel about their clothing? Does it embarrass them to wear dirty/mismatched clothing? Do they insist you buy new things for them because they can't find (or have ruined) their old ones? Or are they fine with/oblivious to all that?
3) Do they seem to navigate their room all right? Do they mostly know which pile of junk their favorite toy is under, or are they as lost and as horrified as you? Do they avoid that space in favor of the neater family areas, or do they seem to prefer the mess?
4) When confronted - gently and lovingly - by you about the way their room is, do they act defensive, angry, flustered, or do they really not see it as a problem the way you do? Are they just exasperated that you're on their case again, or do they have an extreme emotional reaction? (This may be hard to distinguish, given all the baggage and undertones that go along with anything family members say to each other, especially to pre/teens, but how they react is a good indication of how they feel.)
Anyway, you may decide that living in your house/with your family incurs certain obligations of cleanliness whether they like it or not, but it might help if you know that they're only doing it for you, or if they really need help in learning cleanliness (because they want it, even if they can't express that desire directly). And, many don't enjoy the act of cleaning, but really are better off with a clean space, and need your help in creating that - others truly don't get impeded by mess and junk, and they may be better left alone.
Anyway. Just some rambling thoughts. If it's helpful to any of you at all, let me know. If you find it to be just junk, don't.
)
