Loved my intrathecal! No natural childbirth for me EVER again! - Page 9

[mamasaurus]

I'm still here...

I don't quite know what to make of this whole thing, the thread I mean. I have barely had time to read through it and figure out what happened here. It really did something I never dreamed of.

I'll try and come back later when I can take time and get through all this.

But, thanks to everyone who said supportive things to me!

[thismama]

It just basically turned into a giant debate about childbirth and pain and attendants and drugs and whether women have the right to decide what made our birth experiences what they were and how we cope with labour. Some flame festing in there too. I don't think you should feel compelled to read it all if you are not interested in having your right to choose your own birth challenged. It really did get away from you - sorry about that.

[JesseMomme]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

I'm still here...

I don't quite know what to make of this whole thing, the thread I mean. I have barely had time to read through it and figure out what happened here. It really did something I never dreamed of.

I'll try and come back later when I can take time and get through all this.

But, thanks to everyone who said supportive things to me!

Finally a moment to respond.

First I wanted to say that while the title seemed over the top and I can see how it made most people (myself included) I want to dissent from the opinion that the topic does not belong here. I don't think this is 'odd" to put the post in this forum - birth and beyond. If it was homebirth, yeah, UC, yeah. But this place is more general.

I'm sorry Mamasaraus that your first birth was nothing like you pictured. I see anger and resentment over it and I think it came out via a blame on the entire 'natural birth community' who left you feeling like a fool, "duped" as you say. I don't blame you for feeling this, but I encourage you to work through your feelings on your first birth and IMO the natural birth community isn't entirely about pain-free doing it the only right way birth.

Re: Debating over degrees of pain and what factors play into pain. I think attendants are usually one of a few or many factors. In my personal ancedotal experiance my first birth (attended hosp/drugs/back labor) I was never left alone by the med staff. I too wished for someone to knock me unconcious. I was so tired I blacked out between contractions and between each push. And it was so horrible on me physically that even with the knowledge my baby had been rushed off to the NICU, I could do nothing but pass out cold.

I believe, for myself, that if I had been home, maybe a good midwife or maybe a UC, the labor would have been shorter, I of course wouldn't have had drugs, I probably would not have torn my perineum and cervix, and would have been free to move about to deal with the back labor, thus hopefully coping better.

IMO mamasaurus's MW probably left a few things to be desired.

[RiceMomma]

I don't have a problem with the discussion topics that have gone on here, but the nastiness and the flaming is what made it rude. In my opinion, it did get a little off topic, but that happens all the time as one thing leads to another... But the name calling, the arguing, the mooning, really was completely disrespectful. Should have been taken to another thread much sooner.

Ooops, even this post is a little off topic now. :LOL

So, to the OP, please come back when you've been able to think. We're here for you.

[Montana Mom]

moved post

[Montana Mom]

Originally Posted by Boobs

You can still be a great AP mom even if you choose to not labor in pain.

You can still be a great AP Mama no matter how you became a Mama.

[Montana Mom]

I am sorry that you were traumatized. I also had a traumatic birth, though my distress was caused by the medical community. Betrayal issues seem to take a long time to heal.

I'm glad you had a pleasant birth experience this time around and I hope your new baby is well.

I hope this OP does not encourage others to scrap the NCB idea, however, because I think it is very rewarding for many, if not most, women.

[emmabella]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

I didn't know that my own personal pain was going to be so horrific. I felt like I was being raped or drawn and quartered or something.

Your description makes me so sad... I'm sitting here trying to find a way to respond without crying. As someone who has been raped (on two separate occasions) and is anticipating the birth of my first child, this really offends me. I'm just shocked that you would so casually refer to an act that's sole purpose is to degrade & violate women in the most intimate manner possible. If you have personally experienced rape, I grieve with you and feel so sorry your first birth renewed that pain for you. If you have not been raped, I would ask that you not use it as a reference point out of respect for those who are still dealing with the severe emotional trauma is represents.

[thismama]

With all due respect, being violated while giving birth is also degrading and violating in the most intimate way possible. This woman has had 9 pages of about her birth experience... unless you have had that experience I would suggest that you go easy.

[Yummymummy74]

Originally Posted by emmabella

Your description makes me so sad... I'm sitting here trying to find a way to respond without crying. As someone who has been raped (on two separate occasions) and is anticipating the birth of my first child, this really offends me. I'm just shocked that you would so casually refer to an act that's sole purpose is to degrade & violate women in the most intimate manner possible. If you have personally experienced rape, I grieve with you and feel so sorry your first birth renewed that pain for you. If you have not been raped, I would ask that you not use it as a reference point out of respect for those who are still dealing with the severe emotional trauma is represents.

What about those of us who are birth rape survivors.. dont tell ME thats not real until you live through it.... exact same way you feel I suppose.. I feel its a very acceptable term. : if you think birth is not so intimate and there is not an opportunity to be violated by "strangers" then I dont know what to say to you.

[thismama]

What she said.

(I can't believe I'm posting to agree with marsupialmuma. :LOL )

[Yummymummy74]

Originally Posted by thismama

What she said.

(I can't believe I'm posting to agree with marsupialmuma. :LOL )

We may agree upon more than you think!

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by emmabella
I would ask that you not use it as a reference point out of respect for those who are still dealing with the severe emotional trauma is represents.

I have friend who struggled (maybe still struggles) with the many uses for the term rape. She was very violently raped and it severely offended her when people used the word rape for what’s also called ‘statutory rape’, ‘date rape’ and etc. Her feelings are certainly valid and I imagine quite common with survivors.


However, I do think it comes down to language (perhaps its limitations) and allowing people to label their experiences according to how they feel.

But I wanted to tell you that I, I…well, I don’t think I understand your feelings…but I just wanted to tell you my experience with my friend. :quote

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by emmabella

As someone who has been raped (on two separate occasions) and is anticipating the birth of my first child, this really offends me. I'm just shocked that you would so casually refer to an act that's sole purpose is to degrade & violate women in the most intimate manner possible. .

Unfortunately emmabella, far to many women including myself, have experienced "birth rape". Before I even knew that term, it was the only way I could describe how I felt coming out of my first birth experience.I was put through 20 hours of pure hell physically and emotionally, complete with them taking scissors and slicing me from vagina to anus, all without my consent (and all completely unnecissarily). What offends me is that everyday women giving birth are subject to horrible abuse and degridation. They ARE violated in the most intimate manner possible .
If you read more about birth rape, you may be more able to see many of the parrallels.
Women who experience either or both situations feel equally traumatized. Let's not compare who feels worse. Let's support eachother. Women should stick together in matters like this.

As someone who has been raped, you may want to consider reading up, and preparing for your labor and birth in that context. Women who are survivors of sexual abuse very often re-experiece, and or have a really hard time with the similarities between standard hospital birth, and sexual abuse. I HIGHLY recomend the book "When Survivors Give Birth" by Penny Simkin, and Phylis Klaus. It's a wonderful book.

[sarajane]

I have to agree with emmebella. I have not been raped or "birth" raped. I have left an ob office feeling quite awful that is about it but, I can see that kind of degrading violation is much different than actual rape. I can see how for those who have been raped could be upset by this seemingly harmless term for bad things that happen to women at birth.

I'm not trying to downplay what happens to women in hospitals. There is a big difference though. One being, a woman in a hospital at least chose to be there in the first place (not saying what happens is all her fault either).

Grant it the word rape does have other meanings but we all know what comes to mind first....

[thismama]

With respect, being at an appt in an OBs office is NOT the same thing as giving birth. Women in hospital may or may not choose to be there, but you cant exactly walk out once you're in the middle of it. Birth giving is extremely intimate, and for me the most vulnerable I have ever been. It's interesting to me that so far only women who have not given birth are objecting to the idea of "birth rape."

[2+twins]

I can completely sympathise with birth rape survivors. I (very fortunately) have not experienced that but I have experienced something very similar during an emergency d&c due to a miscarriage gone bad. The experience was horrific. Yes, I consented to be there (because I literally almost bled out at home so this was kinda my only option other than death) but it FELT like rape. I could give more details if you really wanna know, but please believe me when I say that it was truely, truely awful (and on top of the already horrible situation of loosing my baby).
I am, of course, very sorry that you had that experience in your past. I don't think anyone who speaks of birth rape intends to downplay your experience - I hope you can see that in time.

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

I have friend who struggled (maybe still struggles) with the many uses for the term rape. She was very violently raped and it severely offended her when people used the word rape for what’s also called ‘statutory rape’, ‘date rape’ and etc. Her feelings are certainly valid and I imagine quite common with survivors.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're writing here but she had a problem with people who were raped calling it rape if there was not extreme violence involved? Stautory rape and date rape can cover a wide variety of experiences. Yes stautory rape might involve an 18 year old and a 16 year whose parents got mad but it could just as easily involve a grown man who had sex with a child who was older than 12. Surely that is still a sexual violation? And I've always just seen date rape as a way of categorizing a rape where you knew the violator. I don't think it has a legal definition like stautory rape. I can't imagine feeling that only a violation done a specific way by a specific person counts as a violation. Sorry to go so OT but really I'm not seeing what's so inherently offensive about the use of the word rape when rape is involved. I can at least understand that idea of being offended by the use of the word rape casually almost as a synonym for being taken advantage of (say in a business context) but not in the context you seem to be giving.

[emmabella]

Wow, some of you gals are nasty. I purposefully did not mention birth rape in my response to mamasaurus because it did not seem to be what she was referring to in her post. My assumption was that since she mentioned rape and being "drawn and quartered" (which obviously has NOT happened to her) in the same breath, that she was using a random word to describe her experience. I volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center and deal extensively with women who have experienced both what you would call a "traditional" rape and birth rape, where someone has willfully and maliciously violated them. Both are valid, both are horrific. However, they are different. My only purpose of posting was to encourage people who have experienced neither circumstance to not use that reference point casually. My heart goes out to my fellow sisters have been violated in this way.

[darsmama]

I think everyone thanks you for the clarification Emily

Good luck your with babe!