Loved my intrathecal! No natural childbirth for me EVER again! - Page 2

[stafl]

I think the point here is that women should make the right decisions for themselves. It is traumatic when a woman is pressured into something she doesn't really want, especially during labor. My decision to go unmedicated with my second birth had absolutely nothing to do with pain. It was all about avoiding another cesarean. I knew good and well that if I were to step foot in a hospital, they would figure out some way of talking me into interventions I didn't want, and those interventions would lead to more interventions and I would get cut open again, possibly unecessarily. I wasn't going to let that happen. I wasn't going to do anything that might possibly increase my chances of having another cesarean.

As it was, my labor didn't hurt, relatively speaking. I have worse menstrual cramps than my labor contractions were. What did hurt was pushing past a swollen cervical lip, but by that point even had I wanted any pain meds it would have been too late for them. We all have different experiences and different needs during childbirth. Empowerment means having those needs met, in whatever way suits each one of us best.

[Black Orchid]

I can really relate to the OP, although I really REALLY hope that I can have a natural birth with the next baby. I tried, I really did... but after 3 days of back labor and just terrible, horrible contractions I broke down and asked for an epidural... and I felt so freaking guilty about it. I blamed all of the subsequent problems she had (jaundice, nursing issues, colic, reflux) on myself for having an epi Lemme tell ya, that is NOT a good way to spend your PP days and doesn't help avoid PPD.

Everything that I had been taught about the natural birth experience just relied on the fact that I would be abel to breathe and focus and I just couldn't. I tried so hard, I had help and I just could not. And it made me feel so crappy afterwards to have succymb... about myself as a woman and as a mother exposing my DD to the drugs But I just couldn't go anymore.

Anyway, I agree that this post seems to be more about being able to make a choice that is right for your body. And instead of presenting anything other than natural as a shortcoming of the mother, understanding that everyone's body reacts differently to labor and pain and some just cannot do it no matter what.

But I am praying so hard that I can find the right method for me and do it naturally next time!

[Belleweather]

Originally Posted by thismama

I wanted to add that I too was pretty cheesed off at Ina May Gaskin and her "orgasmic birth," "if it hurts you're just not opening to it" vibe. I believed the things she wrote, and was convinced I would be experiencing orgasmic ecstasy while in labour. Thanks a lot Ina May. For me I really would have preferred to be appropriately warned about the amount of pain that is possible.

I totally agree. I think that the only sane way to go into an undrugged birthing experience is with the understand that it's going to hurt like nothing else in the world. I mean, streaching any other part of your body to it's limits hurts, why would you expect your yoni to be different? I just can't imagine expecting 'mellow and peaceful', from something that when you take it down to brass tacks is all about pushing something the size of a watermelon out of a hole the size of a kiwi!

[wasabi]

Yeah not a big fan of the whole birth orgasm line of stuff. Maybe the occasional woman has that but most women I know even those who had natural birth and loved it will at least talk about discomfort. No one's talking about orgasm!

As for having attendants causing the pain I can't say I agree with that. I labored by myself for most of my labor with #3. When it reached the point that I couldn't do it alone any more I called DH in. Not long after that we headed for the hospital. So for 10 hours of my 13 hour labor I had no medical attendants but I still had plenty of pain.

[gurumama]

I had one medicated hospital birth, and one unmedicated hospital birth. I would never try to tell someone else that MY experiences would be theirs.

For the OP--I'm glad you had a positive birth experience. As for being "duped", each person makes their own choices about birth. I'm sorry that your choices led to that feeling.

[ramlita]

Originally Posted by Mom2baldie

Everyone deserves to be proud of their birthing experiences, not just homebirthers...

Yep!
And I can't help but point out, you DID take it, OP-
plenty of women transfer to the hospital for pain relief.

We do what we can with what we have.
We make our own decisions based not only on the information we have, but also our life experience.

I am glad you are happy with your birth. As for the information that childbirth is very painful for most women, and that there are drugs for that pain, well... it's safe to say, the word is already out.

[mandib50]

i think it is very sad the op had a terrible homebirth experience. no women should have to have a terrible birth period. i would wonder if she didn't receive good support from her midwife or if it was a bad midwife/client match or if there was something that happened aside from the pain that made it so terrible. i get the sense that there may have been to high an expectation on the midwives to take the pain away and perhaps not enough belief in her ability to trust herself to handle it.


i believe in natural birth. i believe we were all made to be able to "take it". now, whether or not we wish to or want to or believe we're able to, that's a different story. to each her own. obviously birth is largely psychological and emotional, not just physical and pain is subjective based on many factors. i don't think that natural childbirthers generally say that childbirth isn't painful, i mean for most of us it really is. frankly i wish birth could've been orgasmic for me but i found each time more painful!!

oh well, back to nursing my little guy,
mandi

[pamamidwife]

What I'm getting from this thread, and from her other posts is more about how angry and hurt she is about her first birth experience. This thread is not really about epidurals or even about THIS birth, I'm figuring. In my eyes, as someone who recovered from a traumatic birth, this is an extension of her frustration with her first birth. The adament "no natural childbirth for me EVER" tone is really more about the intensity by which she felt betrayed and assaulted with her first birth.

Anyway, I think it's interesting that she posted this thread here, but I think the thread has less to do with singing the praises of epidurals, but more about how the lack of feeling anything during her birth was better than the assault she felt with her first birth. Just from reading her post, it really seems that she's still really angry about her first birth.

I also think this could be a safe space to vent those frustrations.

[AmandaBL]

I find it interesting she hasn't posted back & we're sitting around here debating the merits of the post. I just hate seeing these posts here. I also hate the "I really tried to breastfeed, but...... " posts too. Not saying it doesn't happen, but there are PLENTY of places to post that - the NATURAL family living board probably isn't it. Elective hospitalization is not natural. Posting something along the lines of "my birth sucked - help me figure out what happened?" is one thing. "YEA for pain medication & elective intervention - PLEASE tell your friends" is another.

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

After the intrathecal, I couldn't feel anything for pushing, but my OB guided me through. I could see the delivery in a mirror and my husband and I talked in between contractions. It was a beautiful birth with us happily watching our daughter being born. I cried that my first child's natural birth had to be so violent.

I'm glad this worked out for you. I hated the epidural I had for exactly this reason, that I couldn't feel to push. I wouldn't recommend it, myself. It took me 8 hours at the pushing stage, pretty much only because I couldn't feel the contractions.

[captain crunchy]

I just hate seeing these posts here. I also hate the "I really tried to breastfeed, but...... " posts too. Not saying it doesn't happen, but there are PLENTY of places to post that - the NATURAL family living board probably isn't it. Elective hospitalization is not natural. Posting something along the lines of "my birth sucked - help me figure out what happened?" is one thing. "YEA for pain medication & elective intervention - PLEASE tell your friends" is another.

I am sorry the OP had a bad experience with her first birth, but I completely agree with the above statement. It would be similar to posting in the diapering board:

NO crappy cloth diapers for me ANYMORE! Disposable ALL THE WAY!!!!

Yes, some women choose disposable and that is okay if that is their choice, and there is a huge difference between asking for some help or sharing experiences-- i.e. "we use cloth but always have blowouts at night so we have been using disposables, what else do you recommend?" ...as opposed to how fantastic disposables are.

That is how I took it anyway.

[KayleeZoo]

mamasaurus, I'm so glad your recent birth experience was a positive one. I, too, would describe my hospital births (complete with epidurals) as beautiful and very positive.

[Rainbow]

I am definitely one of those women who has horrible childbirth pains, no two ways about it.

Actually I think it pretty much hurts all women... childbirth is painful.

I'm glad your choices worked for you... that is what lief is all about, experiencing and learning. Many of us here went the opposite way, but to each their own.

[Rainbow]

Originally Posted by pamamidwife

What I'm getting from this thread, and from her other posts is more about how angry and hurt she is about her first birth experience. This thread is not really about epidurals or even about THIS birth, I'm figuring. In my eyes, as someone who recovered from a traumatic birth, this is an extension of her frustration with her first birth. The adament "no natural childbirth for me EVER" tone is really more about the intensity by which she felt betrayed and assaulted with her first birth.

Anyway, I think it's interesting that she posted this thread here, but I think the thread has less to do with singing the praises of epidurals, but more about how the lack of feeling anything during her birth was better than the assault she felt with her first birth. Just from reading her post, it really seems that she's still really angry about her first birth.

I also think this could be a safe space to vent those frustrations.

Beautifully said!

[Simply Nurtured]

I am in support of women's choices during birth, whatever they may be. Most of the mama's who request my presence as a doula, do so because they know I experienced unmedicated birth in the hospital and their goal is the same.

But if medication is a birthing mother's choice, then that is up to her, not me. She does not have to be "me", so I am ok with that.



I am unafraid of birth, but I personally am very afraid of needles. I could not even imagine an epidural/spinal needle, I am more afraid of that than the back labor discomfort I have experienced...

So I am thankful that my intentions and choices for birth were respected and all needles were kept far, far away from me.

[hubris]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmuma

This IS a bizarre place to post about this .. its pretty simple your a woman you have a uterus you got pregnant.. you CAN do it.

I am convinced pain is caused by attendants anyhow.. I had next to none my last birth.

I'll agree that this is a surprising place to find a post with this tone, but Marsupialmuma, I think that the OP has a point about the attitudes of the NCB "community." Or rather, of a few members of that community. The contention that all pain in childbirth is created by attendants, or that birth isn't painful (or shouldn't be if you do it "right"), or that all of us are capable of achieving a natural birth, is a little heavy-handed and dismissive, and ultimately hurts people more than helps them.

While you may not have felt pain during your last birth, that does not mean that pain is not normal during birth. Our perception of pain, tolerance for it, ability to endure it, coping mechanisms for it, are all shaped by our past experiences, cultural context, personalities, etc etc. But that doesn't mean that pain doesn't exist, only that our experience of it can be shaped in different ways. I definitely perceived pain during my birth, caused by nobody but the baby who was ready to come out and my own body , but I knew what was happening and why, I instinctively found ways to minimize my pain and cope with it, and ultimately, I knew that it was a good, useful pain that would guide me through birth and that I did not need medication. I also knew that medication would probably adversely affect my baby and myself.

I wish that instead of debating whether or not birth is painful, we invited women to evaluate their own experiences/beliefs/attitudes with/about pain and we discussed what birth pain is and how it is different from other types of pain, like pain related to infection, injury, surgery. Birth pain, for the majority who experience it, is a physiological pain caused by our body doing a normal thing, and can be useful to us in labor. The other types of pain, with which most of us have much more experience and which shape our culture's approach to pain in general, are pathological forms of pain, they tell us that something is wrong with our body.

[Greaseball]

"No more intact baby boys for me! Circ w/o anesthesia for the next one!"
"Guess what - I spanked, and no more problems!"
"I'm getting an episiotomy to please my dh"
"CIO and proud of it!"
"These boobs are for dh only; I don't want to breastfeed and turn my kids gay!"

Just a few examples of things I would not post at MDC. This user doesn't sound like a troll, but what are we supposed to get out of this? I mean, we all know birth hurts and there are drugs available. Just a few more thoughts:

1. No one "duped you." Childbirth is so painful it cannot be described. It was so much more painful than I possibly imagined, than anyone explained to me. There are no words. Yet I don't believe everyone somehow kept something from me.

2. Before the birth of #1, I read Laura Shanley and everyone else telling me that birth only hurts if you believe it will and that it can in fact be orgasmic. Not so for me. I read that, believed it wasn't going to hurt, and it hurt anyway. Not the book's fault, not my fault. It just hurt.

3. EVERYONE can "take it" if they have to. If there were no painkilling medication invented, women would still have babies if they wanted them no matter how bad the pain got. Maybe some would pass out from the pain, but they would still have babies because once you are pregnant there is no other way out.

4. It's possible your attendants did things that made the pain worse, but who knows. After my hospital birth, I had a list of all the things I had done wrong that made my labor long and difficult. I figured the next time I gave birth I would just not do those things. (Things like spend so much time lying in bed, agree to AROM, etc.) Well, at my homebirth I did everything "right" and it was still long and hard. I think it was actually worse in some ways! I guess for me, birth is just not going to come easy.

[thepeach80]

I'm glad things went better for you this time as well! My goal next time is to make it completely drug free. My first birth was an awful induction w/ an epi that didn't work and then worked too well that I felt nothing during pushing. I ended up having a c/s for a malpositioned baby. I recently had a VBAC and only had an epi (I could still feel to push etc and it was MUCH better than my other epi) for the last 1.5 hrs of my 12 hr labor. I now know I can do it (which you did too, but obviously didn't enjoy) and will do it next time! I hope to have better financial circumstances next time though and hire a doula as well. I guess this just goes to show how different everyone is. I know moms who were thrilled about never having to labor and delivery vaginally, but my c/s was a HUGE disappointment and very sad for me for quite a while.

[Tummy]

Originally Posted by Viola

Can you elaborate on the differences? Maybe start a spin-off thread? I have had one epidural birth, one homebirth and there were some differences for me too. I'm wondering if ours coincide.

I loved my homebirth and found it a positive, empowering experience, but I have to admit my first thought when it was over was this euphoric, "Thank God I never have to do this again!" After some time had passed, I decided I could handle it again, but I'm not feeling any desire to have a third pregnancy and birth experience. OK, sometimes I miss being pregnant, but I'm pretty happy we are done. Although sometimes a small voice in me thinks, "maybe I could have a waterbirth and no stitches this time. Let's give it a shot!" :LOL

I agree with both of you... I have had a c/s at 10cm, induction with three drugs/epidural/pushing for 3 hours/4degree cut/vaccum, hosp-bac, and two hbac. NEVER EVER EVER EVER again would I EVER get another epidural or birth in a hosp setting!!!! (must say my second vbac at hosp was a great healing experience from the first vbac!)

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Belleweather

I totally agree. I think that the only sane way to go into an undrugged birthing experience is with the understand that it's going to hurt like nothing else in the world. I mean, streaching any other part of your body to it's limits hurts, why would you expect your yoni to be different? I just can't imagine expecting 'mellow and peaceful', from something that when you take it down to brass tacks is all about pushing something the size of a watermelon out of a hole the size of a kiwi!

I agree with you that the only way to go in is to expect that it likely will hurt like nothing else in the world. I wanted to clarify tho, that for me, it wasn't the actual crowning, or the baby the size of a watermelon coming out a hole the size of a kiwi! (Hilarious analogy btw :LOL ) It was the contractions... it started getting ugly at about 3 cms dilated, and transition was unbelievably painful. But the pushing was much much better, and altho I anticipated crowning with dread, for me it didn't hurt a bit. I *felt* the ripping of my vagina, but more the pressure of it, not pain. For some women pushing is harder, but for many it is easier, than transition.

I wanted to clarify because I noticed you are expecting, and if you are in transition thinking "I cant do this and it only gets worse" remember that pushing may well be easier.