Loved my intrathecal! No natural childbirth for me EVER again! - Page 3

[wednesday]

Originally Posted by thismama

I wanted to clarify because I noticed you are expecting, and if you are in transition thinking "I cant do this and it only gets worse" remember that pushing may well be easier.

That was absolutely my experience as well. Dilating and transition were pretty painful. Pushing took a long time, but didn't hurt. Crowning and delivering didn't hurt at all. I can remember the midwife saying something to me about "that burning will be over really soon" when DS was crowning and I didn't know what on earth she was talking about. I felt fine.

[2+twins]

I'm really sorry for the OP that she had such a miserable experience. I can understand how someone might feel duped by the ncb community when we praise the experience of birth so much. I agree with Pam that it sounds more like she needs to vent about the bad birth experience and work through those emotions. She's probably seeking validation that it *did* suck for her and that her negative feelings about the birth are okay to have. I find it difficult when talking to a first time pregnant mom about the pain of labor. On the one hand, I don't want her to think that it's a walk in the park. On the other, I don't want to terrify the bejesus out of her and immediately send her straight to the OR for an elective scheduled c-section. So what do you do? I never feel that the pain of birth isn't discussed here on these particular boards, but sometimes it's described as exhilarating, a rush, and yes even orgasmic. And I've definitely heard some claim that if you don't fear it it doesn't hurt (I believe not fearing it makes you not ADD unnecessary pain, but does not remove the pain). And while I agree that "management" of attendants *could* lead to more discomfort or pain, birth w/o one certainly doesn't take it away (I can attest to that first hand). Someone else posted that the OP always could have transferred at any time to the hospital for pain meds. That's very true, but in her defense (and this is only theoretical cuz I have no idea what she knew about this) she may not have known this. I know it *seems* obvious, but I can tell you - and maybe I'm just slow on the uptake - that it never ONCE occured to more, nor was it discussed with me by ANYONE, during either of my pregnancies or births, that one of the reasons for transfer to a hospital would be the mother's desire for pain meds (in other words, that this was an option). Never once did that thought enter my head. Not because it doesn't make sense, but I suppose I only looked into "medically necessary" reasons for transfer. There was a list, ya know? True fetal distress, prolapse cord, etc. Not "mom wants pain meds". And would you really think that a homebirth support team is going to suggest to her that she transfer for pain meds? I kind of doubt it. Anyway, I just thought that I'd share my personal experience about that. I *only* first heard of moms transferring for pain meds after I started reading the boards here at MDC.

[Greaseball]

And would you really think that a homebirth support team is going to suggest to her that she transfer for pain meds?

I don't think this is something a midwife would suggest, but I was seeing a midwife before I discovered MDC and she told me that some of her clients did transfer for pain meds. I also know a few women who attempted a homebirth and transferred for pain meds.

There were times during my homebirth that I wondered, out loud, if I should be in the hospital. My midwives did tell me that I could do whatever I wanted, but never suggested it. There's a difference between an intervention that would make the birth be over sooner or make things easier for mom and an intervention that is a medically necessary procedure. Of course if it's not absolutely necessary they are not going to suggest a transfer.

[onlyboys]

And would you really think that a homebirth support team is going to suggest to her that she transfer for pain meds?

Yes, I do think that a homebirth support team may suggest transferring for pain meds in a couple of situations. All of them outside the scope of liscensed midwifery, but none of them for emergent situations. I was at a homebirth where after 4 days of labor there was no change in dialation. None. When I spoke to my husband as we were transferring, and he asked what best case scenario would be, all I could think was, "Epidural, so she can rest." She NEEDED pain relief.

Greaseball said a little while back that EVERYONE can birth without pain meds, and theoretically it's true. Unfortunately when everyone was birthing without pain meds more women died in childbirth. I don't necessarily think that the pain was the reason ( ) but the pain can contribute to exhaustion which women *can* (and probably did) die from. I'm remembering Red Tent...

I think the goal is not to birth as someone else would birth, but to birth how you need to birth. The problem with that is that often we cannot discover how we need to birth until it's happening, and then, especially in a hospital, it's too late to stop the birth machine without a major fight.

[Greaseball]

How can you die from exhaustion? The only danger I could see is dehydration.

[onlyboys]

I do not know the physiology or pathology behind what makes a person die of exhaustion, but I do not think it exclusively has to do with hydration. I can imagine that eventually, a woman who has been in the midst of birthing a baby for days, without rest, without respite, would not be in prime physical condition. It would affect every system in her body, eventually, and maybe overcome her. I can venture a guess that it would probably be cardiac in nature.

[CaraboosMama]

Wow...this post made me a little sad

As a newbie to this site I was really surprised to read the title of the OP. I had the opposite experience...I had hoped to deliver w/o pain medication...but then after 4 weeks of staving off pre-term labor, my water broke & then...no regular contractions! I finally consented to induction after trying some natural methods & I really wish I hadn't. Overall, my birth experience wasn't "BAD" (I have my beautiful daugher to show for it, after all!) but I felt like I wasn't as "present" in the whole thing as I could have been. Thankfully no complications from the intrathecal (no tearing, no problems for dd) but I hope to do a homebirth the next time.

[darsmama]

AmandaBL, I really hope this dosen't come across as rude - as I would say this to you IRL and I am very unconfrontational but:

How would you feel if you had problems like an unnatural childbirth, can't breastfeed, cloth dipes breaking your babe out or some other 'unnatural' thing and everyone at MDC who you came to love and view as friends told YOU to go to Babycenter because "Its just not natural family living" and there was this more NATURAL way to do things but you didn't do it..
To babycenter you go...
Could be pretty hurtful.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Greaseball

How can you die from exhaustion? The only danger I could see is dehydration.

I got transferred after 40+ hours of labour, 7 hours stalled at 6 cm. I dilated and didn't get the epi, but things could easily have gone the other way.

The danger is exhaustion + dehydration = mama unable to get baby out, fetal distress. And the mama is a living, breathing person who might not want to spend endless hours exhausted and dehydrating.

[ramlita]

-Well said, Darsmama! I don't see value in reflexively ostracizing people who have differing experiences/opinions from the 'norm,' whatever that may be.

Originally Posted by Greaseball

How can you die from exhaustion?

-I was also thinking that working the uterus too hard for too long, especially for a woman already in poor health, can mean that it won't clamp down well after the baby is out, so too much blood can be lost.
I'd think it would be very rare these days.

-Can I ask those of you who have had fast labors, was the pain more overwhelming than with your other labors?

[2+twins]

Originally Posted by ramlah

Can I ask those of you who have had fast labors, was the pain more overwhelming than with your other labors?

Holy crap yes! First labor (almost 10 hours) - except for the pushing stage which I personally found horrendous - I felt like I could do it again and again. That's not to say that it felt *good* but I could stay on top of the pain - I could imagine worse pain than that. Like if I only had to deal with one or two of those contrax, it wouldn't have been any big deal - it's just the sheer endlessness of them that made them hard. 2nd labor was 90 minutes from first contrax to birth and it was miserably painful. I don't know if I could imagine pain worse than that* - even if I was only dealt one of those contrax vs. many. It was intense, indescribable pain. Really REALLY bad. Pushing felt equally awful as the first time around, except that it was really fast vs. the 4 hours it took with the first. Sensation of tearing upwards wasn't pleasant though (2nd birth) and was quiet unexpected.

*Except perhaps the almost equally painful afterbirth contrax coupled with the nauseating & excruciating pain which would occur everytime dd would latch onto my raw and bleeding nipples.

[Moon Faerie]

Originally Posted by ramlah

Can I ask those of you who have had fast labors, was the pain more overwhelming than with your other labors?

OMG, YES! DS was about 26 hours of active labor, 3 pushing. The only really hard part was transition. I was exhausted during pushing, but not really in pain. With dd, I was in early labor for about 12 hours, but it wasn't really a bother. Once active labor hit, it was only 1.5 hours until she was born. It was hands down the most painful difficult thing ever.
Everyone says how lucky I was to have a quick labor, but I have to disagree. My labor with ds was much easier to handle, and I hadn't prepared for NCB at all. I had planned on an epidural the entire time. It didn't work though. I ended up with pitocin. Even with pit, it was much less intense than labor with dd.

[ramlita]

Makes sense!
I mention it because I saw on another thread that OP had about a five hour labor with her first baby... (mods-is that appropriate to mention?)

[pamamidwife]

just to be clear: women that died in childbirth years ago usually did so for three main reasons:

one - baby in an undeliverable position. labor goes on and on and on, baby is "stuck", mom's uterus eventually, after days and days, ruptures. mom and baby dies.

two - postpartum hemorrhage

three - infection

while it's not uncommon to think that an exhausted uterus is one that does not contract effectively, i don't think that pain caused deaths. i would also venture to say that we are a culture of people that avoid pain at all costs, people that whine alot about pain, people who want to be martyrs, and people that want to "one up" others about their suffering. this is true. i've seen women from other cultures birth and it's VERY different. we don't think we deserve to be in pain in our culture. we take pills for EVERYTHING.

so, hundreds of years ago, it was very different. women just birthed. there was no martyrdom that came from how great your pain is. you just did it. this attitude probably allowed many women not to FEAR birth as much as it is here in this country.

not to mention the fact that women who are sexually abused will oftentimes have more traumatic dealings with birth because of their abuse. some find natural birth empowering, others feel like they're being victimized all over again.

and, yep, I find it funny that while this poster is not a "troll", that we're creating so much hoopla over her post....and she's not around (or maybe she is!) to enjoy it.

[Greaseball]

My second labor wasn't fast, but it was shorter than the first and I think the pain was more intense because it started with rupture of membranes, and contractions were 2 minutes apart from then on. With #1, it was really long and drawn out but ctx were as much as 15 minutes apart.

[wasabi]

Re pushing I'd heard a lot about how good pushing would feel. When I finally could push oh wow it was worse than my back labor. Now I think I was in an awful position and had no urge to push but my god the ring of fire just lasted forever and ever. It was the longest 17 minutes of my life. I couldn't believe it when they told me that was all it had been. I think just as with almost everything else in labor YMMV.

[ramlita]

Originally Posted by wasabi

Re pushing I'd heard a lot about how good pushing would feel. When I finally could push oh wow...

Me too! It turns out, I was in a terrible position, too- I pushed for four hours, not getting anywhere, and it was unspeakably, shockingly painful the whole time. Since I'd always heard that pushing is a relief, that it feels good, etc, I was sure something was terribly terribly wrong. And in that position, any little progress I made felt like I was being torn to shreds everywhere: throughout my uterus, birth canal, AND vulva. I thought all of those parts were being irrevocably ruined.
(This from someone who completely trusted/trusts birth, who went into it with very little fear, but expecting the worst pain of my life -and that's saying something!)

When I finally got more upright, pushing did finally feel great! No pain, and I could feel significant progress. The crowning was certainly no fun, but...

I remember having such a deep worry from the pain-while-pushing, when the midwife put DD on my chest, I asked if it was okay to touch her! I was afraid her clavicles had been broken, or some other major trauma, since it took such work to get her out.
She was completely fine (just huge!) it was just a matter of being in the right position. Maddening to look back on.

[homebirthing]

[QUOTE=pamamidwife]while it's not uncommon to think that an exhausted uterus is one that does not contract effectively, i don't think that pain caused deaths. i would also venture to say that we are a culture of people that avoid pain at all costs, people that whine alot about pain, people who want to be martyrs, and people that want to "one up" others about their suffering. this is true. i've seen women from other cultures birth and it's VERY different. we don't think we deserve to be in pain in our culture. we take pills for EVERYTHING.[QUOTE]


So true!!!


I had my first baby from start to finish in 4 3/4 hours. Nubain hospital horrible degrading

I had my second OP baby born 1 3/4 hours. Sunny side up! home waterbirth

I had my third baby full brow presentation 17 hour active labor with ohhh 4 of those hours transition contractions asw she was born forehead first. Plus OP, which is the only way they cay come out....THAT was the most horrid pain ever made. I guarentee it. Home waterbirth.

Next baby...home.

I would have been cut at the hospital, I have not one iota of doubt.


I am sorry that your first birth was hard.

[USAmma]

I had two wonderful epidural hospital births. I think that for some women it is the right choice, and I often post here encouraging women who do hospital births to know all their options and to feel empowered in that setting.

However this board is a place that, in the spirit of MDC, promotes natural choices over medical intervention. The epidural has a lot of risks. It would be like me going to the bfing forum and starting a thread on how great formula feeding is. It just doesn't make sense here at MDC.

[AmandaBL]

My point was that it is an odd post on this type of forum to be extolling the virtues of something that this forum isn't really about. We all know what happens to the "CIO works so well!" posts. To me it's the same thing. Epidurals & CIO both "work" technically. They both have numerous "side effects" for lack of a better way to say it. There are so many places... almost all pregnancy/birth sites, boards & even conversations... where the norm is "I love drugs! My OB is awesome! He'll induce you whenever you want & his epidurals are the best - you won't feel a thing!!!" I don't like to see it on here. Doesn't mean it CAN NOT be here - I just don't like it.

And just as a note... I've never had a natural child birth (my birth stories are posted - 2 epidurals - one planned homebirth - no such luck) I dealt with a wicked CD & BF thrush issue and now am only a p/t CDer, I only nursed DS #1 for 8 mo & had quite a few problems with DS#2 who's only 4 mo. BUT I look at those things as half successes, and half failures. I aspire to "natural family living" and in the areas where I miss the mark I want to improve. I certainly would never post on here "Sposies are so light & trim & easy - no CD for me!!!! " I didn't mean to sound like SHE belonged somewhere else, but the post sure sounded a lot more like that other place than here.