Loved my intrathecal! No natural childbirth for me EVER again! - Page 5

[mrzmeg]

This thread is getting pretty OT but I wanted to add that I'm glad to see it here.

The contention that all pain in childbirth is created by attendants, or that birth isn't painful (or shouldn't be if you do it "right"), or that all of us are capable of achieving a natural birth, is a little heavy-handed and dismissive, and ultimately hurts people more than helps them

ITA. I planned a homebirth with my ds and stayed at home, in active labor for 15 hrs, stuck at 4cm. I decided to transfer to the hospital for Nubain and ds was born four hours later. 'Violent' is the best word I can think of to describe the entire situation. I blamed myself for a lot of this, but, really, my expectations were unreal. I had read so many NFL birthstories and Ina May books that I really thought the pain would be more manageable. Add to that the fact that my mother told me (and still asserts) that her labor was no worse than menstrual cramps, and I was setting myself up for disappointment. A 'can do' attitude is helpful for oneself, but when advocated for so loudly, I think it can be harmful as well, especially to first time moms.

I've been through it once before and I hope that that knowledge will help guide me through the upcoming birth. But, before having ds, I could never have even imagined that kind of pain existed. I'm glad to see such a frank discussion of it here on MDC.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmuma

Sure we do.. but bottom line I totally disagree that some womyn are better at birthing than others.. pain is largely societal conditioning and I stand firm in my opinion that attendants cause pain.. period! its all about fight or flight.

I think this comment is arrogant and naive. My labour hurt like , and the pain was not caused by my attitude or my birth attendants.

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd

Well, that's one way of looking at it! :LOL For me personally, I feel like I can handle anything as long as I don't have to face back labor again.

I had back labor with #1 and #2;



#3 was easy I earned him!

so was #4!

I deserved it! I quit while I was ahead.

[water]

My faster (4.5 hours) unmedicated underwater(!) birth hurt waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy less than my 40 hours of back labour hospital transfer from a planned homebirth.

Back labour was AWFUL


I do agree though that this thread is out of place here. I DIDN't "make it through" my first experience unmedicated and it was the most god-awful, horrible excruciating pain I could imagine, yet I still planned to do it again!!! And did! And it was amazing and wonderful and still hurt like hell, just a lesser circle of hell :LOL

[sugarbeth]

Originally Posted by thismama

I think this comment is arrogant and naive. My labour hurt like , and the pain was not caused by my attitude or my birth attendants.

I totally agree. And I actually thought it was pretty misogynistic to say, ironically.

[Yummymummy74]

Originally Posted by applejuice

The day my last baby was born I had painted the living room of my rental house...I was trying to even out the ceiling, but the paint simply would not smooth out...I tried to open another five gallon container of paint, but I could not do it as I had "dropped" and my center of balance had changed. I walked to the school to get my three children walked them home, fed them, helped them with their homework, put them down to bed, got myself ready for bed, laid down, and then realized that I was not going to be going to sleep for a while - I had another job to do...deliver my fourth baby!! I put out a snack, boiled water, called the midwife, gor out the birth kit, filled the bathtub with warm water, and set up the camera.

I was having a baby!!

He was born at 3:06 a.m., he was welcomed by his older siblings and I made breakfast for them before taking them to school ... he was show and tell for his siblings that day!

This makes me smile! :LOL I remember when I had my 6 year old.. I had had a very busy day with the kids, had gone out to run errands that night.. picked up a couple of things for the "impending" baby..lol she was due a day later but since I had never ever gone on my date or anything earlier than 2 weeks after it I thought I was good to go.. came home was walking up the walkway and my water broke! LOL ... went in hung out a while then decided to go to the hospital to have her (keep in mind this had been a UP) and had her a few hours later .. came home stopped off at the grocery store.. ran a few more errands before getting some sleep an then the next day made it to my shopping "date" with my mom with new baby in tow .. you should have seen the look on her face when she saw me show up with a baby :LOL it was priceless!

I don't think I would have the energy for that these days.. but man I was only 25 then

[Yummymummy74]

Originally Posted by thismama

I think this comment is arrogant and naive. My labour hurt like , and the pain was not caused by my attitude or my birth attendants.

You can disagree all you want.. I think your reply to me is arrogant and rude I stand firm I have birthed 8 babies in varying places and headspaces.. I also am drawing on the collective experience of other groups I belong too.. to each their own.. birth was not designed as a flawed process .. attendants were not part of the intitial plan for evolution

We can debate it until the cows come home.. I am not attacking your views so do NOT attack mine.

"mi·sog·y·nis·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-sj-nstk) also mi·sog·y·nous (-sj-ns)
adj.
Of or characterized by a hatred of women"

Oh my gosh I am : at this how on earth can you misconstrue my comments about pain being societal.. and attendants causing undue performance anxiety and pain due to their interventions as misogynistic.. please.. if you want to pick apart my post make sense about it ok?

[sarajane]

I haven't read all five pages of this, I started from the beginning thinking there were only two pages but when I saw there were more I skipped to the last page! There seem to be alot of things being brought up.

I haven't been through it yet but just wanted to say that the wonderful homebirth stories I hear don't have me thinking my birth will be so easy by any means. I know it is gonna hurt. I may freak out, something could go wrong. I know these things but choose to go for the homebirth anyway. I think in some circles hospital AND home birth can be portrayed to be something it isn't. I don't think anyone should take anybody's word on what it was like or what to expect exactly. Seems to me birth is so different for everyone for many reasons.

I tend to think that some women will do best at home and some best at the hospital. I am naturally really against going to the hospital myself and very uncomfortable around docs and the way they do things. I'm very modest about my body and don't believe I could give it my all in a hospital setting with nurses and docs around.

I think some women are more comfortable with all the things that come along with the hospital birth experience and thus will have less pain there. I don't think anyone can deny that stress and tension causes more pain. That is simply fact. So if the thought of homebirth stresses a person out and they were convinced by others to do it cuz it is better then I can see them having an awful expiernce. Same thing goes for the hospital. I can see how people can end up feeling duped.

I see women get told downright lies about drugs and their effects and many other procedures and I feel they definately got duped! Everyone needs to do their own research and make their own choices. It is sad there are so many who try only to influence for their own selfish reasons. I know people like that and it isn't a cool thing to do.

I have a lot of respect for the home birth community compared to the hospital birth community. Thus far I have been told untrue things only by the hospital birth communtiy. The home birthers have been completely honest with me and for me that is one of the many reasons I want to be a part of it.

[mamasaurus]

Wow! Ok, I'm here. I didn't expect this kind of response at all. Wow. I don't even know where to begin. I just posted what, yesterday? This is the first time I've had to sit down and come back here. Look, I'm not even sure what a troll is - someone who just posts on a forum to cause trouble or something? That's what it sounds like.

Anyway, I'm a poster here, I used to post under ilovemybaby, but I lost the password and you know how that goes...had to get a new name. But, I love Mothering and this forum - I've learned a lot here. As Pam said, I felt it was a safe place to post. I've received so much support here in the past.

I posted in great detail before about my first birth experience. The thread went on and on and I received a lot of help and concern. Someone even recommended a birth trauma counselor for me in another state, and she and I had a few phone conversations that were helpful. That thread was very overwhelming for me. I ended up copying the whole thing and saving it on my computer.

I felt I could post this on Mothering because of my history here, with that thread I posted about my first birth.

Also, I remember reading in the Mothering magazine an article talking about med/no meds for childbirth. And it said something about the "compassionate use of medications". It really touched me because of my first birth experience. I thought that if Mothering could advocate the compassionate use of meds then it would be ok to post here, especially since I tried the homebirth.

Some of you had questions about my first birth. About my option to go to the hospital - I would not have made it in time. My baby came fast. We just stayed home and I did the best I could.

I know it was my choice to be home. But I made that choice thinking that water would help the pain, based on a lot of stuff I read. I didn't know that my own personal pain was going to be so horrific. I felt like I was being raped or drawn and quartered or something. By the time I realized the pain was too much, we were in the thick of it and I was almost 10cm.

I know that childbirth pain is common, and I knew about it before hand, but all I can say is that for me, it was absolute torture.

Yea, I'm still angry about the first birth. I'm mad, sad, frustrated, etc. That will probably never go away and I'm fine with that. It's normal and I don't need to squash my feelings down. So, if you got some of that from my post, it's definitely still there.

I'm just soooo glad, soooo grateful I was able to have a great second birth. I took control of my birth choices the second time. Yes, I made my own choices the first time, but without all the information I needed.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmuma

You can disagree all you want.. I think your reply to me is arrogant and rude I stand firm I have birthed 8 babies in varying places and headspaces.. I also am drawing on the collective experience of other groups I belong too.. to each their own.. birth was not designed as a flawed process .. attendants were not part of the intitial plan for evolution

We can debate it until the cows come home.. I am not attacking your views so do NOT attack mine.

You are attacking my lived experience, and the experience of many other mamas on this thread, when you say that the amount of pain we experienced is directly related to the birth attendants present when we had our babes. I am saying that FOR ME THIS IS NOT TRUE. If it was true for you, that's fine and valid, but you'd run into less difficulty with me if you owned your own experience.

And I don't buy for one second that attendants "were not part of the initial plan for evolution." This mama is part of evolution, and she was designed to have LOTS of birth attendants.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

I felt I could post this on Mothering because of my history here, with that thread I posted about my first birth.

Also, I remember reading in the Mothering magazine an article talking about med/no meds for childbirth. And it said something about the "compassionate use of medications". It really touched me because of my first birth experience. I thought that if Mothering could advocate the compassionate use of meds then it would be ok to post here, especially since I tried the homebirth.

Hi mamasaurus -

I hope that as well as dissenting opinions you are also hearing the support many of us have expressed for your perspective and your right to birth however you choose, as well as the thanks to you for bringing up this subject. I'm glad your second birth was a positive experience for you.

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmuma

Sure we do.. but bottom line I totally disagree that some womyn are better at birthing than others.. pain is largely societal conditioning and I stand firm in my opinion that attendants cause pain.. period! its all about fight or flight.

Marsupialmuma, I agree with you that for some women attendants may cause pain. I would also say, that for some women, the idea of unattended birth would cause as much stress. Again..conditioning by society that it's not possible, and attendane is needed to be safe.

On another note, I'd like you to consider, and maybe make room in your heart for another idea. Another huge common denominator among women who seem to feel extrodinary pain during childbirth is a history of sexual abuse (I'm not suggesting that every woman who's been in this situation has a history, but it is very common, more than 1 in 4 women has a history of abuse). For many women in that situation, birth is unbearable. Truely. Many of them don't even realize why at the time. For some of them, a chosen medicated birth IS highy empowering. They were able to take control, and be a participant, and active in thier birth in that way. (agian, mamasaurus, I'm not saying this is you)
I could go on for pages about this, but I just really want you to consider it, and maybe place it in the back of your mind that maybe some women have a good reason for thier choices. Why do I care if you consider this or not? Because it sounds like you are very vocal in the birth community. If you are in a room full of women talking about birth, at least one of them has this history.We all know how far ripples go.

[captain optimism]

I don't get what we are arguing about here. Are we disagreeing about whether giving birth hurts? About whether it is a highly individual experience? About whether attendants make a difference?

Okay, I'm weighing in:

1. Yeah, giving birth hurts, that's why pain relief is even a question.

2. Of course every birth is different, everyone who has had multiple births can attest to that. There are a lot of reasons why one birth might feel ecstatic and not all that painful and another might feel like you are dying. I knew that from reading birth stories in my first trimester of pregnancy. It seems elementary.

(This sounds funny even to me, a person who learns everything by reading! What I mean is, you can observe that all births are different without being, I don't know, Ina May Gaskin.)

3. Of course your birth attendants make a difference. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are the only factor and we aren't intended by nature to have birth attendants, that seems like an extreme position. But I do often wonder whether my birth would have gone a lot better and not stalled out if a different CNM had been on duty when I hit the hospital.

I always thought the question about pain relief was more about whether you could have an efficient, effective labor and an unaffected, alert baby.

(Though perhaps this is completely from my own very weird experience of birth.)

[thepeach80]

Originally Posted by cmb123

On another note, I'd like you to consider, and maybe make room in your heart for another idea. Another huge common denominator among women who seem to feel extrodinary pain during childbirth is a history of sexual abuse (I'm not suggesting that every woman who's been in this situation has a history, but it is very common, more than 1 in 4 women has a history of abuse). For many women in that situation, birth is unbearable. Truely. Many of them don't even realize why at the time. For some of them, a chosen medicated birth IS highy empowering. They were able to take control, and be a participant, and active in thier birth in that way. (agian, mamasaurus, I'm not saying this is you)
I could go on for pages about this, but I just really want you to consider it, and maybe place it in the back of your mind that maybe some women have a good reason for thier choices. Why do I care if you consider this or not? Because it sounds like you are very vocal in the birth community. If you are in a room full of women talking about birth, at least one of them has this history.We all know how far ripples go.

Do you have anything on this I could read? I think this is part of all the problems I'm having at home right now in the bedroom and it started during my pgcy w/ Evan. I couldn't even let DH touch me most days w/out feeling horrible inside and it has nothing to do w/ him! I had a fairly fast (not super fast, but it was good at 12 hrs) w/ Evan and I did wonderfully at home by myself (DH was sleeping) till ctxs were about 3 mins apart. They hurt like heck and that ride to the hospital was awful! lol I ended up w/ an epi the last 1.5 hrs of my birth b/c I was not handling the ctxs well at all since they were back to back by then. I joke I made all the other mommies want epis w/ all my screaming. Sorry, I just started typing and it had nothing to do w/ what I started the post about...any help would be great. I often contemplate whether I need some kind of counseling or something, but I never know what to do and can't even seem to talk to DH about it, but I know he misses me.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

[QUOTE=Marsupialmuma .. attendants were not part of the intitial plan for evolution
[/QUOTE]


A child birth educator I knew once had a theory that birth pain was intended to gather support for laboring women. I guess her theory is that mamas of infants need support around them ~ it’s the pain that draws it.

I thought that was a really interesting theory.




OP, there was a thread a while back about interventions (and their positive place in pregnancy, labor and birth). I’ll see if I can bump it up for you.

[Oh the Irony]

Originally Posted by mamasaurus

Also, I remember reading in the Mothering magazine an article talking about med/no meds for childbirth. And it said something about the "compassionate use of medications". It really touched me because of my first birth experience. I thought that if Mothering could advocate the compassionate use of meds then it would be ok to post here, especially since I tried the homebirth.

I'm just soooo glad, soooo grateful I was able to have a great second birth. I took control of my birth choices the second time. Yes, I made my own choices the first time, but without all the information I needed.

I'm grateful you were too...I support your freedom of choice to birth as you see fit. It is not my decision.

I realized that if you had posted under birth stories, I would have offered more support. I realized that if the title and content had not been so melodramatic (to me) in tone I would have offered more support. Last time I checked, I have not yet been appointed Queen of post placement and title management.

Hearing more of your story, I begin to see more of the why. I begin to understand and that is what I ultimately seek in life. Thank you for the opportunity.

[homebirthing]

Originally Posted by Boobs

My husband wouldn't support my decision to do it again.

Yikes. I hope he would if you change your mind, since he isn't the one having the baby.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Interesint one, OP...

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=240381

[Debstmomy]

Boy is this thread making me think. One thing I would like to point is not all epidurals/intrathecal work!

For me, I have had 2 fail me. When I had DD I thought get the meds & I would not feel anything. Wrong. I felt so much still, not pain but severe pressure at 5 cm. It was awful & I could not move to relieve it. With DS it only took on one side. Again awful, wish I had never done it.

While I am glad the OP found relief from what she needed, it does not work for all, and I feel that people need to know that.

Ok way off OT, but wanted to through that out there!
Oh and I agree, just because you choose a medicated birth, does not make you less of an AP mom!

[Greaseball]

And I don't buy for one second that attendants "were not part of the initial plan for evolution." This mama is part of evolution, and she was designed to have LOTS of birth attendants.

Isn't it true that moms in prehistoric times had birth attendants? Heck, even elephants have birth attendants; they have a difficult time giving birth without them around.

Moms who have unattended births also say they hurt.