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April Pagan Mamas' Thread! - Page 4

post #61 of 145
sahmof2girls, when you say you believe the whole Bible, every word, well, I wonder---

have you read it all?

I have. I also read the apocrypha and a lot of the gnostic xian scriptures which were discovered in Egypt in 1945.

Xianity has been tweaked by men to support the patriarchy. Mary Magdalene's role has been buried. She is a goddess of Xtianity.

I highly highly recommend you read The Jesus Mysteries by Freke and Gandy and The Woman with the Alabaster Jar by Margaret Starbird to see how Xtianity is a syncretistic religion, made up of Greek pagan and Jewish ideas.

And Jesus himself is a mythological character in an ancient romance.

And the ancient Hebrews were not monotheists.

And much much more.
post #62 of 145
Yes I have read the whole bible, But like I said I was taught that you beleive it all. Ya know, But I will definiltey get those books. I need to see what other things are out there. Thanks
post #63 of 145
I don't understand how anyone can read the Hebrew Bible and believe it all. For ex, Chronicles is Kings rewritten and reinterpreted. So which version do you "believe" and how?

Daniel was written in the 2nd century BCE [after Alexander the Great had conquered the Mediterranean region] as tho it was written as a prophecy in the 7th [while the Israelites were living under Assyrian rule]. But it wasn't predicting anything, it was recording history.

RevJn is based on Ezekiel and Daniel.

The 4 gospels retell the story of Moses and Joshua as a midrashic modern tale of a man with the Greek name of Jesus, whose fate is the same as that of Adonis, Tammuz and Osiris.

Modern Jews interpret the Hebrew Bible differently than the Xtians do. Is this fair? Who is right? What about the Muslims?

The character of the Christian Satan depends more on ideas from Persioan Zoroastrianism than on the Jewish "shaytan."

But don't take my word for it.

Another helpful book is the New Oxford Annotated Bible. Knocks your sox off.
post #64 of 145
May I join all you?

Thank you for sharing all your wonderful thoughts. Reading them has brought me to a good place this morning.

A dry March has given way to a rainy April. This is good- we live in a wet place and although sun was nice, we need the rain. It rains and rains. The earth is filling up and I think I hear the trees sigh.

The dogwoods are blooming and I can see them across the pond. I love to see them reflect in the water. Did you hear the spot on NPR about dogwoods and what music reminds you of dogwoods. It was lovely. Dogwood to me is so graceful, beautiful and understated. Fantastic.

April, for me is so much about birth and death. Birth: the births of my paternal grandmother, my father and myself. It was a year ago that my dear friend Aspen (a wonderful care taker of the earth) died and I have been thinking about her so much. She visited me in a nice dream. I have to believe that she crossed over and is still apart of all that is.

My favorite chicken- Persia the Aracana- died last week. I found her in the morning when I went to feed them. In death, her feathers were regally fluffed out- so beautiful. My warrior daughter helped bury Persia and thank her for her blue eggs.

I am speachless in the beauty of it all.
Thanks for reading.
Blessed Be.
post #65 of 145
darylll<<<< I just ordered all 3 of those bookas and am very excited for thier arrival. As I was sitting outside with my girls thios morning, It was just wonderful, the birds were singing and the grass is turning green, and the sun was so bright and warm. It is so amazu=ing. I grew up in the middle of the woods, and my father always taught os to repect mother earth and all the beauties of nature. We picked gingers and cohoshes, mint, and scallions that grew naturally in our woods and we were always out. My father has passed away 5 yrs ago But I still feel his prescence everywhere I go. I sit up and look at his beuatiful windchimes and just take in everything. I really feel that the more I study this that this will set me free from all of my confusion on "religion". Just the past few weeks it is so amazing seeing how much of my life was all about pagan beleif. My parents just taught us what they new. and that was that. But they too were raised "christians" and I beleive that is why I am labeled that way. Here I go rambling again I hope I find my way!!!!!! Here is a pic of the chimes. they were made in remembrence of my awesom dad! The last pic is my dad. The " is "A hummingbirds heart beats faster because it has a shorter time to finish it's work" That is what my little bro told my mom the night my dad died...... windchimes
post #66 of 145
post #67 of 145
Hey all...I don't know what to post so...I'm just going to post. Yeah...that makes sense.

I identify more with Paganism than anything else. I was raised in a "Talk Xtian" home...I say "talk" because...everyone in my family talks like a Xtian but doesn't walk like one. My mom has told me on more than one occasion that I will go to hell if I don't fall back in line. What a lovely thing for your mom to say, eh?


Anyway...I "found" Paganism (or rather it found me...) in 2000. I went through this weird metamorphosis...going from "believing" these things that I had been immersed and indoctrinated in for my whole life....to closing that chapter and following a path that had been slowly opening for me...

When I had Willow...I think I put my Spiritual side on a back burner...I shouldn't have...but I didn't think I had time to nurture that. So...as my spirituality is ever-evolving...it evolved into a more agnostic/atheist view. It has continued to evolve and...here I am.

I'm rambling, I'm cold, I'm NAK...and I just found out our water heater broke...so...I'm going to go and try to refrain from pulling my hair out.
post #68 of 145
Good evening to All.

DaryLLL - Do you really think that Jesus was not a real man? Or do you think that the Jesus we know is a mythalogical charictor because he is so exadurated? If you think he was compleatly fabricated, why?

As far as being a witch...

I'm not Wiccan. I know I am a Witch, and I know I have always (in other lives too) been a Witch. It is not so easy for me to let people know though. Not because I'm afraid of loosing friends, but because I am in the prosses of founding a Non-profit and building a profesional reputation. I fear that if I make it known, many momas will not bennifit from the services The Natural Wisdom Project has to offer because they have preconcieved knowtions of my spiritual path. One doula told me she didn't want to become a part of The Project because she had some problems with my religous beleifs. My religous beleifs have nothing to do with The Project! There are three other founders (they know I'm a Witch and love me) and 8 board members (who know I'm a little "out there" but probubly don't know I'm a Witch). We are growing very quickly and I feel in my gut that we are beginning somthing BIG. Because I am the President and Co-founder, my reputation directly impacts the reputation of the Project and I don't want that impact to be negative. People just don't get what it means to be a Witch. I'm still getting it!

On the other hand, I don't hide it. If someone figured it out and asked me I would tell the truth. I just don't make it obviouse. My penticle is worn under my shirt.

:LOL I said somthing in a prayer about thanking the Mother Goddess who birthed us all and makes all life possible etc. Ds was listening and said "Goddess must have a HUGE yoni to birth the whole earth!" :LOL
post #69 of 145
RE Sonnadoula's professional concerns:

I kept my pagan beliefs under wraps for a LONG time. I work at a public utility - probably one of the most conservative environments around - in the South, where I am surrounded by Christians. The company was sued for discrimination several years ago and has put into place a diversity awareness program. Well, 2-1/2 years ago, for the holiday displays, the organizers asked if someone would like to do one on Yule. Uh, yeah!! I volunteered and effectively outed myself to all 2000+ people who work in my building. It has been *interesting*, but I have 100% support and backing from my boss, which has been extremely helpful. She's Jewish and has undergone some of the same weirdness at this company, so we're effectively fighting some of the same battles.

I hope you're able to eventually be open with your beliefs without fear of damaging the success of your organization.
post #70 of 145
Thread Starter 
Not Wiccan either, myself.

My kids were the ones to recognize I am a witch- a whole 'nother story.

When I get paranoid over what others might say, think and feel about my spirituality, I remember that I have earned every bit of respect I have gotten in my community, as has my husband. We've lived here 20 years now. No one has ever accused us of weirdness or evil though they would say we are different.

(One neighbor across the road told his SO that we did sacrifices...just to keep her isolated from us and not trust us; it was a very abusive situation and she did eventually trust us and is now no longer with him. He KNOWS better too, since his own sister is a witch! Heh and we knew her long ago. But I digress...)

My husband saved many lives as a volunteer paramedic on our rescue squad for 11 years. I took care of many many children through my work at Head Start, and as director of the local school's afterschool program. Alot of those kids are in grades 7-12 now. They remember me still. Their parents remember me. My hubby also started our town's recycling program years and years ago, and serves on the planning board of our town; has for a long time...gave it up for a bit and was begged to return. So there is a place for Pagans at the table of the community, without shame or fear.

So...we should invest in our communities with whole heart, instead of investing in fear! And that tiny knot of concern about identity as Pagan, does come from some fear, right?

Remember that even in the Bible it says: By their fruits they will be known...or something very similar. So...if our actions are true to our hearts, there is NO problem. Others' fears about what we MIGHT be and do reflect only their OWN insecurities; not anything of subtance about us.

Sonnadoula:
I am preparing to get my feet wet as a postpartum doula in the next months and year. Tell me more about your Natural Wisdom Project organization and where you are. I am interested, though it may not work for me because of distances. You may pm me or email me about it. My email address is somewhere upthread not too far.

willowsmom:
I think that the more I committed to natural nurturing of my children, the more my heart harmonized or desired deeper harmony with the rhythms/cycles of Nature. This led me in a very natural way, to being a pagan, but NOT to rejecting, scorning nor abandoning all the truly and positively supportive teachings I found on my journeys with my Judeo and Christian heritage. Not to say that everyone will find ANY such in either of those other faiths, but I did and I don't need to reject them out of hand because neither serves me the way being Pagan does.

I am just naturally Pagan, and I don't have to hide it. I also don't have wave it like a flag, nor do I feel the urge to announce it just to watch others' reactions. Was a time I may have done so and probably did a bit of it here and there. But over time, I just decided that I love the people in my town, that I am the same person they see all the time and that everyone knows we are "different" anyway, always were and STILL they respect us and like us.

OK...nuff said, eh? I DO go on sometimes, don't I?

Dar...I so appreciate your sharing here. Big hugs to you.


Joyce in the mts.
post #71 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnadoula
DaryLLL - Do you really think that Jesus was not a real man? Or do you think that the Jesus we know is a mythalogical charictor because he is so exadurated? If you think he was compleatly fabricated, why?
Well, that is a big subject and outside of the scope of this pagan support thread. I suggest that you read the books I recced above that anotehr poster said she is getting.

Here is a website to get you started. Easy to read, lots of pix:

http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/

and for more serious reading:

http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm
post #72 of 145
Hi ladies

im back.. finished this semester.. and now im done... our graduation ceremony isnt til june.. and i guess i dont graduate officially til then.. but i am a graduate in my eyes.. (unless i fail something.. which i dont think is gonna happen) :LOL

Daryll i jus finished the Jesus Mysteries.. it is an eye opening book.. 1/2 of it i already knew but wow it is an awesome book...

i guess since school is over i can read more that makes me one happy mama...

now im back and can play around here more... i miss my fellow pagan mamas... especially when im surrounded by catholicism and my family keep tellin me to baptize khaila so she can go to a catholic school etc etc etc....
post #73 of 145
Tricia... Congrats on finishing your program! Woo hoo! You must be thrilled. And a question... are we not allowed to send our kids to Catholic schools here unless they're baptized? I'm sure I know people who have their kids enrolled in Catholic school in Toronto, and they're not Catholic. Just curious.

I'm also pretty involved in my community, and I do make a point to say that I'm not Christian when appropriate. (i.e. when someone talks about religion and makes the assumption that everyone is a Christian, or wants to plan a celebration that is obviously focused on Christian tradition.) I don't often get into big discussions about my personal beliefs, but certainly try to normalize the fact that it's not a Christian only world. But I live in a very diverse community, so this is fairly easy to do in my environment.
post #74 of 145

So Much Energy!

I am always so creative and manic in the spring time. My cycle has just returened on the spring new moon after 9 months in waiting after Canyon was born! I have been pulling out all my unfinnished projects and creating!
Being anTaurus Earth sign I am effected by all this earth energy flowing through the earth!
The Ravens are messing with me... this is the second planting of sunflower seeds they got this month!
I have a beautiful new blue blown ostrich egg on my spring altar...It is perfect.
post #75 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyce in the mts.
When I get paranoid over what others might say, think and feel about my spirituality, I remember that I have earned every bit of respect I have gotten in my community, as has my husband.
This played a big part in my being comfortable enough at work to be openly heathen. I've worked at this company for nearly 13 years. I am consistently recognized as a top performer and my skills & expertise are sought after, not just in my department but in others as well. I have worked very hard to establish myself as professional and knowledgeable, and that has paid off in that others are more willing to overlook some of my "eccentricities (sp?)." For instance, I have several tattoos, a couple of which are visible in certain outfits. I cannot think of one other person in my building that has visible tattoos, but it has never been an issue for me because of my work reputation. Same with my beliefs .... although ... (see my next paragraph) ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyce in the mts.
And that tiny knot of concern about identity as Pagan, does come from some fear, right?
.... there was absolutely, without a doubt, some fear in my being openly heathen at work. I am the sole breadwinner in our family (dh is a sahd). The mortgage, car payments, insurance .... the entire financial success of my family is dependent on me staying in the good graces of my employer. I seriously took a giant leap of faith by counting on my professional reputation to be secure enough to finally be honest with my coworkers.

A really interesting thing happened, though. Total strangers started coming up and thanking me for the Yule display. They asked how I planned to celebrate Ostara -- and shared with me what they planned to do! They confided in me how uncomfortable the Christian prayers before meetings make them. The vast majority of these people are still undercover, but I was able to sit in a meeting with a company VP and 3 other non-Christians and tell him, we're not the only ones, and this company has some serious issues with religious diversity. Those problems haven't been solved yet, but at least the executives know that they exist.
post #76 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoalaMama
Tricia... Congrats on finishing your program! Woo hoo! You must be thrilled. And a question... are we not allowed to send our kids to Catholic schools here unless they're baptized? I'm sure I know people who have their kids enrolled in Catholic school in Toronto, and they're not Catholic. Just curious.
Wow ur in T.O. didnt know that.. im in hamilton.. been lookin at jobs out that way.. waaaaay more there than here..

The way it works is this.. if you baptize your guaranteed a desk at a catholic school... if you dont baptize you are put on a waiting list at the board.. and if they are spots then u can at that point get in.. but it varies year by year... anyways the ppl who arent baptized have to change their funding from public to catholic boards and contribute and volunteer with the catholic school...
post #77 of 145
heathenmom we need more people in the work force ( I am currently SAHM) that are standing up and working for change.
post #78 of 145
Quote:
When I had Willow...I think I put my Spiritual side on a back burner...I shouldn't have...but I didn't think I had time to nurture that. So...as my spirituality is ever-evolving...it evolved into a more agnostic/atheist view. It has continued to evolve and...here I am
I was the same way. Once I had kids my spiritual side disappeared until almost 2 years ago. Dh thinks what I do is weird and some new phase I'm doing. I have reminded him to think back before kids and see that I"m not really doing anything different than I was back then.

As for community work & our spirituality in some areas I let it be known in others I don't. At the school the principal and at least 2 teachers knows my very strong opinions on them still saying the Lord's Prayer every morning. It's a school board decision and I"m not sure if I"m up to fighting the school board. One teacher was threatened by the superintendant for not saying it. Outing myself is 1 thing, but I don't know if I want my kids labelled for something they may or may not believe in.

With the Doula work I could care less what the other Doula's think. One is a talking Christian. Another one has Pagan tendancies but is in major denial about it.

I have been asked a couple of times if I am Christian based on my business name. The 1 was an older gentleman and didn't have much to say after I told him I wasn't.

My neighbor has really bad and false ideas about Pagans/Witches. She doesn't know I am one but she brought it up one day and didn't like that I defended them. She is an ex-friend for different reasons so I could care less if she knows.

If I have been around in a business for a while and people know me then I am more likely to tell them IF it comes up in conversation. I feel if they see you as normal then maybe they'll adjust thier opinions some. I have recently come out to 1 lady in my weight loss group, I believe there is another Pagan there based on some of her jewelry but I haven't asked her directly. There are some very strong Christians, a new Christian(who likes to center all conversation around the Church), some talking Christians, based on certain things that have been happening lately I will be coming out to the rest of the group soon. I'm pretty sure the BAC will pray for my salvation but it isn't going to change anything.
post #79 of 145
I have a conundrum that I need to share with you ladies. I'm hoping for someone to shoot some wisdom at me straight between the eyes. :LOL

I come from a long line of Catholics. I was never comfortable there, and went out searching for something else. Paganism found me, and after I left my parents' house (out of respect for them) I started studying and practicing in earnest. I was married in a Catholic church (again, mostly out of respect for my parents, and family in general). And now, we are having our first baby.

Right before I got pregnant, I had an eye opening experience at the funeral of my husband's grandmother. The funeral was at a Presbyterian Church, and after some discussion with DH and a very good Christian friend, I decided to look into other Christian religions (other than Catholicism, I mean). I attended a Presbyterian church very briefly, and felt that I was embarking on a new exciting path that felt RIGHT for me at that moment in time.

In the midst of all this, DH and I finally found the PERFECT house (we've been looking for one for years), and then, found out we were having our baby (we've been trying to get pregnant for a good long time, too.) These things felt like signs to me; signs that I was on the right path.

But, I cannot wrap my mind around so much of the Christian faith. I cannot follow something that I've researched so indepth, and disproved in my own mind thousands of times.

So, I kind of gave up on spirituality in general for a while. And then my Catholic SIL and BIL asked DH and I to be their child's godparents. We accepted, although I did so with misgivings. As it turns out, all I was really asked to promise was to help raise the child in the faith his parents have chosen for him. When the part about believing in XYZ came up, I just didn't say "I Do" with the rest of the parents/godparents. This made me feel better, that I wasn't "lying".

In any case, being someone's godmother was the beginning of me wanting to start seeking again, and then my mother gave me something that really made me do a step back. Just as I was starting to feel comfortable with identifying myself as a Pagan again, with abandoning this seemingly fruitless search for truth in Christianity, mom brought me some things that my grandmother made before she died.

She told my mom, "I don't know if I'll be here when Sharon-anne is having a baby, but I want you to hold on to these things to give to her at her shower." She'd made a blanket, a sweater set, and a christening gown. The single most beautiful item of clothing I've ever seen.

Okay, here's the conundrum that I'm facing (heavens, this has gotten long! I'm so sorry! :LOL)

I want to do something to honor my baby's birth. Not necessarily something to "dedicate" my child to any religion, but SOMETHING. I also want my child to wear this christening gown that my grandmother made her/him. This is SO important to me. I can't even begin to tell you guys how important it is that this gown be used.

To use it in any sort of wiccaning or Pagan ceremony just doesn't feel right to me, as my grandmother was SO Catholic. To not use it at all feels just as wrong. To use it in a Catholic baptism is what feels most "right". But, I don't know that I want to do that. DH is no help, as he doesn't believe in any type of spirituality, sees religious training as "mom's job" and isn't all that interested in what I believe to begin with :LOL THat sounds awful, he's a great guy, just way too scientific for any spirituality. ;

So, here I am, asking you guys for input. Do I do a Catholic baptism, to honor my grandmother, mother and all my other "ancestors", and have the baby wear Grandma's gown? Or do I do a private Pagan ceremony, involving myself and...well...the baby? Or maybe I can do both??

It just feels plainly icky to me to promise to raise my child in the Catholic faith when I have absolutely no intention of doing so.

Sigh. This is hard. :LOL

Thanks for any wisdom you all can share with me.
post #80 of 145
Hmmm... Well, I don't know that it would be honouring anyone to promise to raise your child in the Catholic faith knowing in your heart that you have no intention of doing so. I understand the desire to please, but if your family truly believes what they practice then it might be offensive to have you stand up in church and lie about that.

Have you thought about having a family get-together without any religious aspect? You could have a blessing ceremony for the baby and explain to your family that you will raise the baby to make his/her own decisions regarding religion when old enough to do so. It seems a reasonable and honest way to honour all involved, including the baby and yourself.

Best of luck to you in your decision!
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