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Is Bradley really natural?  

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I'm just wondering because as I was reading the "Husband-coached childbirth" book, there seemed to be some subtle attempts by Mr. Bradley to keep the medical establishment in a "management" position when it comes to birth.

I particularly thought his glowing descriptions of routine epesiotomy (why????????) without anesthesia were kind of weird, considering the nature of the rest of the book. "Look, I cut her, and she never knew it! Without drugs! Isn't that wonderful?"
post #2 of 20
I think very few Bradley instructors teach from Dr. Bradley's book anymore. There are updated versions. You gotta keep in mind how earth-shattering his ideas were for the time, though!
post #3 of 20
Dr Bradley's misogynist ideas were pretty common for the time period that he was practicing in. They're shocking now - and really, should have been shocking during the time written - but Stafl's right about his contribution. While his theories came from Grantly Dick-Reads work in Europe, his focus on "husband coached" ideally got fathers into the delivery room during a time when they were banished to the waiting areas of hospitals.

IMO, nobody should tell a woman how to birth or how to cope with her labor. Women, if they want, should have some tools that vary. Bradley advocates women lying down, relaxing every part of their body during contractions and remaining quiet. To some degree, this early method of prepared childbirth goes hand-in-hand with his paternalistic and sexist thinking (keep the woman quiet, not "out of control"....the husband is in charge, directing and advising his wife).

Modern day Bradley classes still teach that basic relaxation technique and it's helped alot of women during birth, or so they tell me. One thing that modern Bradley classes are best known for is full informed choice of medical interventions and procedures, as well as a focus on why natural birth is best. They also are anti-circ and pro-breastfeeding and teach couples about those issues.
post #4 of 20
I'm a Bradley instructor and I can tell you that Bradley most definitely *is* natural, but as with ANY class you take, a lot has to do with your instructor. Dr. Bradley did do waaaaaaay more episiotomies than we'd think was a realistically warranted number and eventually he came to realize that. He also changed his views on homebirth near the end of his life after realizing that every hospital didn't run the way his did. But the book doesn't reflect these things. He really was a pioneer though, paving the way for many women to have the kind of experience they - and their partners - desire.
I really don't see the husband-as-coach thing as something meant in ANY way to keep the woman in her place (quiet, within her husbands control, etc.). The *reason* Dr. Bradley began advocate husbands (partners, whatever) in the delivery room was 2 fold. First, he noticed in those rare instances that the woman's partner was present, her perception of pain changed dramatically (i.e. she handled the pain better). Second, following one of his early births (when husbands were still not involved), the wife had been estatic about the birth. She kissed him and thanked him for showing her how to birth. He walked to the waiting room to give the husband the news and found that husband wracked with fear. He was just there waiting - as husbands did - to find out if his wife and baby were okay. Dr. Bradley realized then and there that the mother's love should have been bestoyed on her husband. He saw this as an opportunity for partners to bond. The husband should be the one loving and supporting his wife, not the doctor. And he felt shame that the mother had fallen a little bit in love with *him* during this process when it should have been her husband. So that's why he began bringing husbands in. And with this came training them.
Have you seen untrained husbands when their wife gives birth? They might do just great - particulary if everything goes status quo - but without the understanding of normal birth they're more likely to panic or deviate from their wife's birth plan if something "appears" to be going wrong (like how a woman in transition might appear to someone who hasn't been prepped for what this is). We help partners in our classes learn to communicate with each other, make decisions with each other about the pregnancy and birth. We help them to become more partnered together by sharing this experience, and the responsibilities it caries, together. Parenting is hard, as we all know, and going through such an important time and making these very important decisions is good groundwork for what lies ahead. Now if the baby should have some problems following the birth - or even later in life - they might just be a little more prepared to work together as a team on these issues. That's not to say that you have to take this class to have a good partnership with your sig. other, but I think it really does help a lot of couples and this is a big part of the reasoning behind why we have husbands/partners as coaches.
We *do* teach the side lying relaxation position but we don't teach that this position should be used any more than the woman wants to use it. I see this as a common misconception. It's just another tool for them to use and it's a great one if it works for you (never worked for me). I have heard that the Bradley Method discourages women from making noise (although I wasn't taught this at any point during my teacher training) and that the reason for this pertains directly to hospital birth. In many hospitals, a loud birther is a woman who has the staff baggering her constantly to lay down and take drugs. She may be literally berated by the staff for her noise making - scaring other patients, etc. So I get that, although I'd say screw em. I'd never teach a woman to try to be quiet during labor, and like I just mentioned, I was never taught by the AAHCC to do so.
Now if you wanna talk natural, the co-founders of the AAHCC couldn't advocate a more natural approach. They seriously have issues with the medical establishment (although it's not pushed in class) including vaccinations, well-baby checks, things commonly done even by the more "natural" for birth such as rotating a baby (they think there may well be a good reason for the baby's position and trying to force a change might not be wise), jaundice (except the type that shows up immediately) being anything pathological, etc. Anyway, let me know if you want more info. I feel like I'm rambling and getting totally OT so I'll stop. I just think a lot of people have HUGE misconceptions about what Bradley really is.
post #5 of 20
Bradley's original book is a touch... interesting. Outdated, if you will. I found an old copy (3rd ed, maybe? from the 60s) in my mom's library over xmas, which explained Herpes (ya know, the virus) as being caused, basically, by using harsh soaps and wearing underwear. Fortunately, Dr. Bradley does not teach Bradley classes. The women and men who keep the AAHCC alive and well today took his basic ideas and ran with them - sometimes far far away from what he originally said! (Such as episiotomies being every woman's blessing.)

And no, I'm neither a Bradley instructor nor even a taker of the classes - I'm just a student of the types of childbirth classes available, and think (based on my research) that AAHCC offers some of the best, at least for those working for a no-to-low-intervention birth.
post #6 of 20
I just wanted to add one more thing. What we teach the "husbands" to be is literally no more than how to be a doula. Think about it - this is all we're trying to do - put the husband in the role of doula. It's not about "coaching" it's about "supporting" her. And we even do talk about the other doulas - the professional type - and how they can play a role in the birth as well. If nothing else, they can support the husband so he can stay attentive to his wife (by massaging him if necessary (over a long drawn out labor if he's doing lots of physical support for his wife), bringing them both any needed food or drinks, and running interference if necessary with hospital staff). I personally recommend to my hospital-bound couples a doula specifically for that last situation, and to anyone who just might want one.
So the only real difference in the husband & the traditional doula is that we're helping to provide him the information in advance so that he can help come to any necessary decisions with his wife (whereas the doula would never be the one making the decision). And, of course, he is a person the mother already knows & trusts.
post #7 of 20
As a doula I love the book Natural Birth the Bradley Way, by Susan McCutcheon -- it really presents Dr. Bradley's basic ideas in a more up-to-date way.
post #8 of 20
In the Bradley class I took all seven of the couples were 1st time parents and none were planning a homebirth. We all gave birth vaginally without painkilling drugs which at least beats the odds for expected cesarean surgery. If other Bradley classes are getting results like that it says to me that the Bradley Method is at least highly successful at reducing the bad effects of the medicalized childbirth model practiced by most hospitals and that's a valuable thing in itself.

One thing you are right about is that the Bradley class focused on how to achieve a natural birth in a hospital setting. The instructor pretty much assumed that we would need to know how to fend off unwanted interventions and painkillers.

However, the class also focused on the natural process of birth and using visualization and relaxation techniques to control fear and pain (the underlying assumption was that fear and tension makes pain worse). The information I learned in the Bradley class is ultimately what made me critical enough of the hospital experience to decide to have my second child at home.

--AmyB
post #9 of 20
I read his book but don't remember finding it all that helpful. I can't remember for sure seeing as I have read so many books and some of them have a similar message but I recall him saying some things that I had my husband read and were useful for him.

I did find the whole episiotomy thing wierd. I was like, if I NEED one I want something to numb the area first. I asked my mid-wife after reading the book if she absolutely has to do one for some reason and we decide to go ahead if she uses something to numb the area. Thankfully she said yes. Told me that one time she tried the method of cutting while the woman was pushing and she felt it. Needless to say she never tried it in that manner again. OUCH!
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarajane
I did find the whole episiotomy thing wierd. I was like, if I NEED one I want something to numb the area first. I asked my mid-wife after reading the book if she absolutely has to do one for some reason and we decide to go ahead if she uses something to numb the area. Thankfully she said yes. Told me that one time she tried the method of cutting while the woman was pushing and she felt it. Needless to say she never tried it in that manner again. OUCH!
The method of cutting while the woman is pushing is called a pressure episiotomy. If done correctly it will not hurt the woman. The baby's head must be right against the perineum putting pressure on it during a pushing contrax, while the mom pushes, and that area must be blanched totally white. In that event, the blood flow has been temporarily cut off and therefore produces a natural numbing effect. The reason why the Bradley Method advocates a pressure epi is b/c it *is* effective (wouldn't recommend cutting a woman w/o her being numb to it first) and it keeps the birth drug-free (or less drugs as the case may be). Even a "local" travels straight to the baby.

Now my personal opinion is that Bradley is much more important to hospital birthers than homebirthers. Homebirthers still benefit from the nutritional info, pregnancy exercises, and how birth works, but it's kind of weird teaching just one homebirthing couple and going through all the stuff that they *won't* have to deal with (unless of course they transfer). So it's like, "well if you were going to the hospital then..... (xyz) but you're not, your mw is great, you don't have to deal with this stuff." It's awesome for them that they aren't having to be taught how to win battles, essentially, but it makes teaching those particular classes a little weird (IMO). However, there is always the chance that they could transfer so I remind myself that even the homebirthers are getting something out of that part of the lesson.
post #11 of 20
With my first I had a nasty episiotomy, and with my second we had a prior aggrement if I looked like I was going to tear along my old scar, my midwife would tell me, and we would decide about a small episiotomy. Both times I had no aneasthetic and the cuts were performed at the height of a contraction -- I felt nothing, both times. In fact with the first I was cut AND I tore, and after the baby was out I naively asked, "Wow, did I even need an episiotomy?" And my horrible OB said, "Yes. And you tore." I was oblivious.

BTW, I did not have any pain meds during the births.
post #12 of 20
I took Bradley classes and yes I definitely consider them natural. However I also agree with the criticisms that Pamela in particular raised. I also think the idea that taking a Bradley class makes the husband a doula is a bit idealistic and inaccurate. If that class made my DH a doula I think I'm going to be very disappointed in the doula that I have hired. :LOL I didn't read Bradley's book but I have seen many objections to it.

The pressure epis was a little scary to me. When I gave in and got one due the lack of support from the oncall medwife I didn't even bother to object when it was clear she was going to do a local. However given that my daughter was out in about 10 seconds as I would imagine is the case in most epis I don't see how a local could possibly go straight to her. That's the whole point it's a local number agent not a general anesthetic. Just as if I get dental work done the local anesthetic does not go to my baby. I'd like to see a link or something to substantiate the idea that a local in my perineum is somehow immediately transmitted to my baby because I'm not buying it. Unlike an epi or narcotics it's not injected into your bloodstream and so if nothing else it would take some time for it to even get to your bloodstream to be transmitted to the baby.
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Just as if I get dental work done the local anesthetic does not go to my baby. I'd like to see a link or something to substantiate the idea that a local in my perineum is somehow immediately transmitted to my baby because I'm not buying it. Unlike an epi or narcotics it's not injected into your bloodstream and so if nothing else it would take some time for it to even get to your bloodstream to be transmitted to the baby.
An epidural *is* a local (google "epidural is a local") and it's not injected into the bloodstream. This is why so many people believe that epi's are harmless to the baby - b/c the meds aren't injected into the blood stream, so therefore how would they get to the baby? The thing is, if you give a person an injection of any type - IV (which obviously goes straight into the blood), IM, or whatever a local classifies as (sorry I don't know), the area is surrounded by blood vessels which are leachy and quickly absorb whatever has been injected into the blood stream. So while a local isn't going to numb your whole body, the meds injected will leach into the blood stream and pass to the baby.

Here's one article I have from the American Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology dated 1984 Jun 15:

Quote:
Maternal, fetal, and neonatal lidocaine levels following local perineal infiltration.

Philipson EH, Kuhnert BR, Syracuse CD.

Local infiltration of the perineum is a simple and commonly used technique for providing pain relief for episiotomy. It has always been considered safe and effective because a small amount of local anesthetic agent could be administered quickly and accurately to the perineum just prior to vaginal delivery and cord clamping. Because of the short time interval between local infiltration and delivery, very little anesthetic was thought to reach the fetus. However, the maternal and neonatal disposition of lidocaine following local perineal infiltration has not been well studied. The purpose of this study was to document placental transfer or nontransfer of lidocaine following local perineal infiltration. Fifteen normal parturient women at term and their infants were studied. After local perineal infiltration, the concentrations of lidocaine and two metabolites--monoethyl glycine xylidide and glycine xylidide --were determined in maternal plasma, in the umbilical cord vein at delivery, and in maternal and neonatal plasma or urine for 2 days post partum. Lidocaine and its metabolites were quantitated by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. The pharmacologic results indicated the following: First, lidocaine is detected in maternal plasma as early as 1 minute after injection, and peak plasma concentrations occur within 3 to 15 minutes. Second, there is rapid placental transfer of lidocaine; the mean fetal/maternal ratio of 1.32 was significantly higher than that found following epidural anesthesia. Third, lidocaine and its active metabolites persisted in neonatal urine for at least 48 hours after delivery. This study suggests that local perineal infiltration with lidocaine for episiotomy should be considered similar to any other anesthetic technique in that it may result in significant neonatal drug exposure.
(emphasis added by me)

I also have another article here which also addresses this issue (hardcopy but I'd be happy to scan it for you). It's from an issue of Anesthesiology (The Journal of the American Society of Anesthesiologist, Inc.) from Sept. 1968 which says (and forgive me but mine is a copy and it's hard to make out a couple things so I'll notate when I'm not certain):

Quote:
Fifty-seven randomly selected obstetrical patients who received lidocaine for caudal, epidural, paracervical or pudendal block anesthesia were studied. The local anesthetic was absorbed from the sites of injection into the maternal arterial circulation within three to five minutes, and was transmitted across the placenta to the fetus. The umblical venous concentration of lidocaine at birth was 52 (unclear here - looks like an = sign) 23 per cent (S.D.) of that found simultaneously in the maternal artery. Of five infants which were mildly depressed at birth three had lidocaine levels greater than 3.0 u(I don't have the correct character but it looks a lot like a u with a tail at the beginning of it)g./ml. and no depression was apparent in the newborn.
Local anesthetics are the most widely used agents in obstetrics. Their popularity can be attributed in part to the widespread belief that local anesthetics have few depressant effects on the fetus or newborn. In a previous report we demonstrated that lidocaine crosses the placenta rapidly, appearing in fetal blood within three minutes after intravenous administration to the mother. The present paper demonstrates that lidocaine used for obstetrical anesthesia is rapidly absorbed from the sites of injection into the maternal circulation, crosses the placenta and, very rarely, achieves relatively high fetal blood levels which are associated with neonatal depression.
Does this mean your local had time to reach your baby? No. But I am saying that a local anesthetic can reach the baby b/c the meds are readily absorbed into the maternal blood stream. And there may be lots of us here who choose a local near the end of the birth and then delay cord clamping (which I think is great) which leaves more time for the drug to pass to the baby - see what I mean?
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
I took Bradley classes and yes I definitely consider them natural. However I also agree with the criticisms that Pamela in particular raised. I also think the idea that taking a Bradley class makes the husband a doula is a bit idealistic and inaccurate. If that class made my DH a doula I think I'm going to be very disappointed in the doula that I have hired. :LOL I didn't read Bradley's book but I have seen many objections to it.
Obviously a Bradley trained (only) dad isn't going to be as educated or well-versed in doula'ing as you'd expect an experienced doula to be. But the goal is the same - teach the dh how to support his wife through labor. Teach him normalcy of birth and how to deal with unexpected complications. I'm sure there are LOTS of dh's who acted as fantastic doulas to their wife b/c they learned the tools to help them take that role. And for many women, the only person they want there with them *is* their dh, so he better be up for the role (like me and mine!). Others never feel comfortable enough to step up to the plate. Others just don't care to take that role. But it *can* turn a dad into a doula - at least for his wife.
post #15 of 20
I knew an epi wasn't injected into your bloodstream but rather your epidural space but still it seems that would be a much more transmittable place if you will than your perineum. Thanks for sharing those links. One more thing to worry about I guess since my DD did not breathe and was born with a one on her Apgar. I attributed it to the horrible nature of her birth where they held me down on a bed and pushed and pulled her out of my by her head but maybe it's just one more thing to add to the likely cause of her problems. I have to say that while my class addressed the benefits of tearing over an epis and we talked about how you could have a pressure epis it wasn't presented to me that it could actually be dangerous to have a local. As I said she was still out very quickly after the injection (definitely less than 3 minutes) but you never know. I guess I'll have to do some more reading no that but it definitely stregthens my resolve to just tear if it comes down to it this time.
post #16 of 20
Ok now that I've had a little time for my pg hormones to calm down I actually would like to read that study if scanning it isn't too much trouble. My much more calm Dh asked what the rates were of the fetus receiving the drugs etc and of course I don't see that anywhere and given the small sample sizes I would like to read the studies.

tia
robyn
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi
Ok now that I've had a little time for my pg hormones to calm down I actually would like to read that study if scanning it isn't too much trouble. My much more calm Dh asked what the rates were of the fetus receiving the drugs etc and of course I don't see that anywhere and given the small sample sizes I would like to read the studies.

tia
robyn

I PM'd you.
post #18 of 20
Jenne is totally right, any local anesthetic is absorbed into your bloodstream. Fairly rapidly I would add. I am sure some of it reaches the baby but it isn't something I personally would worry about. I don't worry about it being something that would hurt my baby and if I needed it during pregnancy I wouldn't think twice. But it is a personal choice. The pressure episiotomy is great too though. If it is done right it does work.
post #19 of 20
Infiltration of the perineal tissues for an episiotomy also increases swelling - which will result in a tear worse than the cut.
post #20 of 20
As a five time Bradley birther, I can say that we have lived the ideal of husband as doula. In fact, in my first homebirth as an apprentice, when I was left to support the mom in the tub (bathroom was too small for more than one support person) and I wondered what to do or say, I immediately thought of my husband and did the things he does (minus the kissing, lol) with me during labor and was able to help her deeply relax. Seriously, he could charge!

My preceptor has issues with Bradley, saying that husbands are ill equipped to take on such a tough role. I agree with her in the sense that a husband who has no training would certainly be ill equipped, but give him some good information, and he can be an excellent support and a marital relationship can be greatly enhanced.

Obviously, there will be outdated information in Bradley's original book. He was ahead of his time, though, and I think the classes are a huge positive for the couples who take them.

Sarah
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