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this really disturbes me..advice please - Page 2  

post #21 of 36
I don't have any concrete suggestions for you, just some sympathy.

When we moved to our house last summer, our DD was 2.25 years. There were 2 quite sweet girls next door, aged 3.5 and 5. They came to play very often, and it had its benefits. They were pretty well behaved. I don't think the parents were actually neglectful, but it was pretty clear their standards were very different from ours. I would never let my child play in a home that I hadn't set foot in myself.

We did have some boundary issues - the older girl would come and bang on our back door, or stand outside and holler for DD. We eat our meals in a sunroom at the back of the house, and she would call to us from her backyard. It was really driving us crazy. Rather belatedlly, we had to set some limits. She could only come into our backyard when we were already in the yard. When we were in the house, that was our private time together. They could not come over without letting the adult caring for them know where they were. Of course, the girls could just say that they had told. if it had gone on, it might have become more of a problem again.

DH and I both work FT. We don't have a lot of time at home together as a family. We weren't interested in spending all our free time with these girls. The family seemed to use casual child care - a rotating mix of family and friends of both sexes.

In the fall, the family moved a few blocks away. I gave the parents our phone number, in case the girls wanted to come over. They were nice kids, and DD enjoyed playing with them. We've never heard from them, although we occasionally run into them in the neighborhood. In the end though, I'm kinda glad they moved. It would have been a lot harder to keep DD out of their house as she grew older. There was no way that I would let her play there - lots of smoking, drinking, too many adults in and out that we don't know, and the family was friendly with some pretty scary types who live farther down the street.


I think a phone call from the adult is a good idea. It also gives you an opportunity to make it clear to the adult that now is NOT a good time. It also makes it pretty clear for the boy. I didn't get a call from your mum, so you can't come in. He will end up frequenting someone elses house instead. Talking to the mum is going to be uncomfortable, but its hopefully a conversation you only have to have once.

I agree with the comment from an earlier poster - don't leave this boy alone with your younger DC.

If the child is in your house, then I would impose whatever you feel is appropriate. If that means no video games, so be it. I did make it clear to our neighbors that we probably had different rules than they did at home, but they were the "house rules". If they wanted to play at our house, that was the price. I'm sure that there were times that the girls thought I was a total witch, but I think they also liked coming to our place a lot.

I don't think that CPS is the way to go here (ignoring the debate on THAT topic). You need to talk to your neighbor and set your own boundaries, both with the parent and the child. It will be difficult. But look at it from this standpoint - you have a responsibility to protect your own family from issues that might arise from interactions with your neighbors. Bring out your Mama Bear!
post #22 of 36
My mom left me home alone, probably from 2nd grade on. I was a latchkey kid and had my housekey on a chain or crocheted yarn around my neck. I came home from school alone every day.

I thank whatever goodness there is in the universe that I was not removed from my home!

That said, the situation the OP explained would annoy me too. I get annoyed when my kids have friends over at dinner time (where are their parents? don't they have rule to be home at dinner? Don't they have a set time to eat?).

What would've happened 200 years ago? Would everyone in the neighborhood just pitch in to "raise" neglected kids? What about, "It Takes a Village."

I think we need to change our cultural expectations of how children are raised. My kids aren't just beneficial to ME, they are beneficial to you and you and you and you. They are our next generation of functioning, tax paying adults.

So, I wish I knew what to tell you. We've had some odd neighborhood kids in the past, kids that come up on my porch and play with my kids' toys when they weren't here, etc. And I've just set guidelines. I've gone out and told them, "I'm sorry. You can't play with (A, B, C) when X isn't here to play with you." With the 7 year old yelling for the 15 year old, I guess you just say, "It's rude to yell when you want someone to come outside."

And then don't let the kids in your house I guess. I know everyone has limits, and I think you've definitely passed the comfort zone.

Situations like these are definitely in the gray zone. A 7 year old left alone is borderline on neglect.

As far as mama's going over to introduce themselves. They might be shy. They might be introverted. I actually HATE talking to the parents of my kids' friends. I can and often do, but that doesn't mean it doesn't stress me out, cause it does. I have 2 friends, and I have family. And that's all I need.

We had some real little freaks down the street last summer. Thankfully, they moved.

Anyway those are my rambled and disjointed and probably incoherent thoughts on the subject. I'm feeling my astrological sign strongly today. Libra. "On the one hand.... on the other hand...."
post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jannan
ok, to clarify my dd is 6 and ds is 15. i did post about this last summer . i don't feel comfortable about going to the house. i feel like the mother has set the tone..i don't want to make any friends now. But next time the kid comes i was thinking of going to the house and talking to her and saying "my daughter is 6 and my son is 15. all Luis (her son)wants to do is play video games that are not appropriate for him and i won't allow that in my house and he basically ignores my youngest...." but i do like the suggestion of giving our phone number to him and telling him to have his mother call me so he can play............but, honestly , the house is really crowded right now and i can't stand people in it. it is bad enough my sister comes over with her two kids..i just can't stand alot of toys out and noise. i know that sounds really inviting but that is just where i am right now..............

actually he has not come over without his parents being at their house in a while....when ever he comes i say "do your parents know you are here "? and he'll say "yes" but i've never confirmed it. so now i'm torn:

either put a stop to this and say to the mom"in reality, our children have nothing in common and would prefer that he not come over" that is way harsh.

or when he comes give him our number and tell the mother to call so we can arrange something.
Hey I know exactley what you mean! no one says you have to enterain the neigbourhood kids KWIM? I very very rarely let neighbourhood kids in my home they can play outside with my kids, I have done this before and my kids things get broken or they are exposed to behaviour we don't have issues with in our home.. anyhow you should totally tell the mom its not working to well with her son coming over all the time, just be blunt and hopefully it would solve the problem! you just cannot make everyone happy kwim?
post #24 of 36
Quote:
but, honestly , the house is really crowded right now and i can't stand people in it. it is bad enough my sister comes over with her two kids..i just can't stand a lot of toys out and noise.
This is reason enough.
post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by janellesmommy
If you really think the boy would be better off being permanently removed from the only family he knows and be moved from one foster home to the next for the rest of his childhood, likely being abused and ignored there, then yes, do call CPS. :

If the family does escape permanent removal of their children by CPS, they still will have 10s of thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to pay and a lifetime of stress and worry from their experience with CPS.

I've never had any personal experience with CPS, but I've read enough about them to know that it should take a lot more than a seven year old being left home alone to get them involved!
Well, I have lots of experience with CPS. I was raised the bio kid of foster parents (46 kids, 4 adoptions) was a foster parent myself, was involved with the other foster parents in my town.

I've had CPS called on me, 3 times! Only once did they need to visit, and that was an angry ex call. It was harrowing to know they were coming but no big deal in the end.

A neighbor believed my dd horror stories and called. I forgave the neighbor. After all, she was concerned, not trying to screw things up.

I knew foster parents who were abusive. One family out of all the ones I ever met. One bad SW.

Ever read about doctors who are evil? Ever read how the whole AMA is warped? Ever see anything about lawyers, or scams pulled by roofing companies? Doesn't amke all doctors or lawyers or roofers bad people and I still see a doc if I'm sick and hire someone to fix my roof.

To the OP. Never, ever confront people dirctly about the possiblity of abuse or neglect. People get really angry about this and can become violent. An anonymous note, letting them know that their child is unsafe, signed 'concerned neighbor' might work. I doubt it.

I wouldn't feel hurt she didn't seem friendly. I do thnk trying to talk to her on the phone first is a great idea, but avoid blame, neglect, etc.


Call CPS when you need to. Most days, they do a good job, trying to save kids. Often the sight of them at the door will be enough to make people rethink things. And most foster parents are awesome people who put so much love out there it's incredible! I have no info on Canadian services. If they are bad and you are a Canadian, why not get involved in teh system and work to change it. We have volunteers here who go to court for every child.
post #26 of 36
Thread Starter 
ok, so forget the cps thing. i'm out most week ends with dd and so is ds.....when i am here i will give luis my phone number so his mom or dad can call. honestly, i'm not interested in raising anyone elses' kids. i have my own kids and my nieces and they deserve my time and energy.............
post #27 of 36
The next time he comes over just tell him, "not today dear, sorry." and close the door. Yes he's lonely and your house is fun but it's your house.

My neighbor's son used to come to my door endlessly. I had no children at the time and I finally told him to only come when his mother sent him. Once ds was born, he'd come over when our garage door was open and pat ds in his pack n play with Flaming Orange Cheetohs all over his hands. Very clueless. His mom, now the mayor, told me how the sheriff brought him home once because he left the house while she was napping with his sister...

No need to talk to mom, just send him home...
post #28 of 36
I agree with the above poster, just tell the child your kids are not able to play with him.
post #29 of 36
i guess I took the passive aggresive way out.... This little girl would follow my daughter home on the school bus, everyday I would say, sorry you cant come over my daughter hasnt cleaned her room and shes not allowed to have friendss over till its clean. After about 2 months it basically stopped. Still if we go outside shes rigght on us immediatley. I dont like the kid, i feel sorry for her but shes trouble and I dont want my kid around her... she smashes pumkins and the like (shes 7).. hard situation, I feel for you.
post #30 of 36
I make it a rule never to assocaite with mothers who put their kids in pac & plays. * I* never used one. And none of my children would be allowed to eat cheetos, either. Who needs a village of stupid parents and dirty kids?

What a world, what a world.
post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma4
I make it a rule never to assocaite with mothers who put their kids in pac & plays. * I* never used one. And none of my children would be allowed to eat cheetos, either. Who needs a village of stupid parents and dirty kids?

What a world, what a world.

Wow. I guess we wouldn't be friends then. How sad, you'd never get to know that I am a nice person, despite using the pack-n-play occasionally ( to chop veggies safely, while dd played with carrot strings, or to stir the soup without risking burning her . . . ).

Hey, organic cheese puffs are not all that bad . . . . .


Sorry to to OP, didn't mean to hijack your thread! Couldn't help but respond.
post #32 of 36
Well, if a pac n play is a playpen, count me out too. I had twin infants, a two yo, a hyperactive 7 yo and an 11 yo all in a very small, 1000 square foot house. Plus me, dh and the various pets. :LOL

If I needed to go to the bathroom or open the oven door to baste the roast, sometimes it was teh safest, cleanest, most baby-friendly place in the house. I was never able to use a sling.

So, we friends?
post #33 of 36
Hello. That was irony.

You judged the poor little toddler for having cheeto hands (which i'd never buy, organic or not. I'm a Pringles girl). So then I judged you for using a pac and play.

All the assumptions are stupid.

It's late and I am usually more clever.

Maybe his evil babysitter (or her more satanic Inlaws) gave him cheetos and his mom didn't even know.

maybe the cheetos were organic.

maybe your pac and play is organic.

I still didn't use one, but i don't really have an opinion about them.

But i do eat Pringles about , oh, I don't know, 6 out of twelve PMS cycles.

It could be Cheetos that I crave, and maybe my little kid could find them (as well hidden as they would be), and then my toddler might touch your baby in your garage, and you'd think I didn't care about him and only wanted to be mayor.

Cheetos, pac & plays, leaving a baby in a garage...it's all the same when it comes to drawing a line in the sand over what makes a good parent. Everyone has their standards. : See, that's irony tinged with sarcasm.

I'd be your friend. I have a lot of friends who don't do what i do.

But now maybe you're mad at me.

You can borrow my Kate Spade bag if you want.
post #34 of 36
I'd try to talk to the mom first.

Sorry to hear about your situation. That sounds really hard.
post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy


Nope, I've also been a child in need of care, and didn't get it.



For a young child, it is 12 months, for over age 5 (I think), it is 24. And that's only for CAS to decide whether they want to terminate. There is still then getting court dates, trial, etc., which can take another year or more. During that time the parents are still able to work to get their kids back. The parents rights don't automatically terminate after the 12 months.



They actually have to be in court within 5 days or less. It usually drags on because the parents don't have lawyers at the first date.
I was taken, unjustly, from my mom's care for about two weeks and I am still traumatized by it.

I know someone now whose child was taken away two years ago (two years!) (again unjustly). It did not go to court for seven days at first because of delays on the agency's part. No this person cannot afford a lawyer ( I won't even go into the classism here.) Anyways, this person has even been advised to sue for costs- that is how baseless the case is. There are lies in the affidavit that have been proven to be lies. She is still trying to get her child back, but oh boym she gets two one-hour visits a week. The reason? A broken 2nd storey window. The woman could not afford anything else, and the scumlord wouldn't fix it. I've read that the CAS will help with repairs instead of tearing families apart.

Oh, and we applied ro care for her since they say it is best to keep them with family. They opposed that because we called 911 when we saw and heard a woman getting beat up on the street from our 14th floor apartment and they twisted it around in court to make it look like there was a domestic violence incident in my apartment.

Oh, and the CCAS helped my stepfather get custody of my brother even though he had several drug and abuse convictions.

I was told to stop bf when I was visiting the aforementioned child!

What about baby Maliek?

I have plenty of experience with the ccas. I don't know how much they differ, but the Hamilton Wentworth CCAS is a racist, classist, sexist, anti-bf institution.

To the OP, I would talk to the parents first.
post #36 of 36


You got it right on, Hamilton and Durham Region have the two most corrupt agencies in all of Southern Ontario there are some changes being made however thanks to aggressive anti CAS groups and better public education, but admittedly in the past few years..they have done a great job themselves proving what losers they are. :LOL look at all the inquests and baby deaths over the past 4 years....ahh I digress

There is a great writer at the Ottawa Citizen.. Dave Brown, he covers ALOT of their tales of bungled cases. Toronto has some excellent Lawyers and active groups too that work really hard, FACT is a fathers group but its active in opposition as is VOCA.
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