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post #81 of 104
I hope you didn't think I was saying that your c/sec would be elective! There seemed to be quite a lot of confusion about what we were talking about exactly. Some seemed to think that you were talking about previous tearing and repair and doc was recommending c/sec to prevent future severe tears and yet someone else offered that you were 'didn't want to risk having a colostomy for the rest of your life'. Just wanted to offer info on *what* it was that we were actually talking about.

FWIW - I've never had a c/sec, but work as an L&D nurse. The hospitals I have worked in have very high c/sec rates, so I have cared for many, many women that have had c/sec's. My experience in caring for women post-op seems to be that spinal with duramorph offers best pain relief, though I know there are those on the boards who vehemently disagree. I think I would talk to the anesthesia staff at the hospital and see what your options are first. This is only *my experience* with working in different hospitals with different anesthesia protocols, but the women with a spinal with duramorph seem to have the least pain (but can have annoying itching), epidural with demerol run through it seem to have decent pain control (but do seem to be in more pain than those that got duramorph) and those that get 'on-Q', a newer surgical pain control method that delivers medication to the incision site or those that get a "PCA" (pt. controlled IV medications) seem to have the poorest pain control. With good anesthesia care and adequate dosing of your pain meds (please do take them, even if you usually don't take a tylenol! There is good research to show that adequately controling pain early on leads to less pain later.) you should be able to have a relatively comfortable experience. Good luck with whatever choices you make for the best delivery of your baby!
post #82 of 104
Thread Starter 
Thank you Mom2Six Once, again your insight and advice is greatly appreciated. I know that after my surgery I started to come off of some pain med they had given me, and I was itchy and hallucinating. It was horrible. My best-friend said that I told her that I wanted to 'crawl out of my skin'. Funny now, but at the time she said I probably had a reaction or something. I will take that info you just gave down thanks
post #83 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence
I think it should be covered because its part of the maternity coverage. Lots of elective surgeries are covered by insurance, tubals and vasectomies for instance. Should insurance stop covering them as well? And also it would depend on your insurance, my insurance covers liposuction and tummy tucks. If you have maternity coverage than it should cover whatever birth you desire (even at home) Last I checked I PAID for my insurance premiums, and they are by no means cheap.
If people want to get really picky about birth and the invasion of other people's standards on it, by all means lets do. I have a feeling its not those seeking csections that are going to suffer. Either one of us can argue why the other ones choices cause increased insurance premiums and more costs to the consumer.
Um, I would like to see your argument on that because I do not buy for a single moment that vaginal births can possibly raise ins premiums more than elective c-sections. My c-section was $13,000.

Aside from costs I do not think it is *medically* ethical for someone to have an elective major surgery. Cosmetic surgery is not *major* surgery and a c-section is. Y'all are talking about tummy tucks or liposuction when it doesn't even compare. How about elective gallbladder removal when you don't actually need it or random open heart surgery? Sure if it is medically necessary but for no reason?

Not to mention that it takes up the time of the hospital staff when they could be doing something else. When I had my c-section there was the anestheologist, the surgeon, my Dr, two nurses and a couple of other people who I don't recall who they were but we got a bill for their attendance.

A quote by American College of Nurse-Midwives (ACNM) Director of Professional Services, Marion McCartney CNM, BSN, FACNM
Quote:
"Before women rush to sign up for an elective cesarean section, they should ask for evidence that cesarean birth is as safe as a normal vaginal birth and that future pregnancies and cesareans will be as safe as the first. We have no such evidence to date. Even worse, women are being promised unproven health benefits from this major surgical procedure." said McCartney.
From an article which appeared in Mothering.

Sure, some women do medically require a cesearan but I do not think it should be availible without medical need.

Regardless, the issue doesn't really have anything to do with the OP. Can we get the thread back on topic? She asked for information, which people were giving her. You are derailing the thread with an agenda which is opposed to the philosophies of the magazine this board represents.

Medically necessary c-sections are one thing but you cannot expect to argue in favor of elective c-sections for no reason at Mothering without being called on it.
post #84 of 104
mamabug, I am sorry to hear about your dh. I hope he is doing better.



Glad to see you back.
post #85 of 104
OTF, I don't get this: since elective cesareans are riskier for healthy moms and babies, I am wondering why exactly you are advocating that women should have that choice. Do you think it's ethical to let women subject their fetuses to stastically significantly higher risks because they want to plan a vacation around it? I'm for choice too, but when women put convienience above the welfare of their unborn babies, I think a line should be drawn.

You say ANY reson is legit. My mom had an elective c with my brother and he was accidentally born 4 weeks premature. He's had lasting implications. How is that fair for him? My mom was 'sick of being pregnant'. I'm sorry, but I think what my mom did was wrong, and I don't think she should have had the option to have her child born surgically for no reason other than being uncomfortable. It's pregnancy. It's uncomfortable. Now, her child's health will be forever effected. It isn't uncommon for elective c babies to be born early. It makes me sad that there are people actually *advocating* unnecessary surgical births. These babies need someone to advocate for them. Doctors are more than willing to do it, and women aren't being fully informed of the risks.

Flame me everyone if you want, but that's MHO.

ETA: both of my children were born surgically.
post #86 of 104
I'd have to second the "spinal block" advice. No tubing taped up your back...nothing to be taken out later...that is of course if you have a choice in the matter...which I hope you do...Ok...back to lurking.
post #87 of 104
Lucysmama - ITA
post #88 of 104
You can have a wonderful cesarean birth if you plan it. I found a lot of information on the birthlove site for having a good cesarean birth experience.

I started planning when I was four or five months pregnant, and it took about two months to get everything set up. YMMV, of course, but our hospital was very resistant. Their policy still is that every baby born by cesarean is promptly removed from the OR and taken to the nursery for various procedures. No parents are permitted in the nursery, not even the daddy. Then, the baby meets the mother a few hours later in her room. So I had a long way to go.

Both of my babies had cesarean births. I learned a lot from the first baby's birth, so I prepared well in advance. Basically, I got the hospital and the OB and the neonatologist to commit to me in writing, months in advance, that the hospital would bend its usual procedures. I got a letter from the Director of Nurses and the Director of the Nursery at the hospital (they both signed it) that Rosie would remain in the room with me and would not be separated from me during any procedure. I also talked with the lactation consultants repeatedly before Rosie's birth to make sure they would be available when the cesarean was scheduled.

I will spare you a detailed recital of the mistakes of the first cesarean, which was not expected. The second cesarean was so wonderful compared to the first one that I will just point out some of the highlights:

1. I researched and found the OB with the best reputation for gentle cesarean births.

2. I worked with that OB to find the best anesthesiologist who never missed with spinal anesthesia. Unfortunately, he was horribly obnoxious and told football jokes during the birth, but I was warned in advance and handpicked him because the main thing was to avoid a spinal headache. This is really important. Get the best anesthesiologist, the one your doctor would pick if she ever needed spinal anesthesia, the one all the doctors pick. If you have ever had a spinal headache, you know why.

3. I hired a doula to be with me during the surgery. She had done several cesareans and she calls herself a "massage doula." She massaged me in the prep room before the surgery and stayed by my side in recovery and took care of all of those annoying things so my husband could just be with us.

4. I found out who the most supportive neonatologist would be, and I contacted him by phone to get him to agree to my requests: that Rosie would not be placed on a warmer and whisked to the nursery for shots, heel sticks, bath, weighing, etc. (where parents are not allowed); instead, she would be warmed in the OR on my husband's bare chest and then would come with me to the recovery room. I also had him agree to me nursing Rosie during any shots or heel sticks. I expected that Rosie would be extra large and that the staff would want to give her lots of heel sticks. Once he agreed, I made sure that the surgery would take place on his schedule and I sent the birth plan to him as well as the OB.

5. I put on my birth plan: I do not consent to me or my daughter being used to teach or train any personnel who are not fully certified in their chosen field. Students, residents, and interns may not observe me or my daughter for any reason and I specifically do not consent to any such observation. (My first daughter was born in a teaching hospital, and that was a nightmare.)

6. I had the LCs come visit early to work on any nursing issues. I expected that I might need to supplement with formula because of Rosie's size and because my first dd had been hypoglocemic. Therefore, I wanted to be ready for an SNS, etc.

Only one nurse griped about the birth plan. She told me that it was very inconvenient to have to do the weighing and heel sticks at bedside and that if every baby had that treatment that they would have to hire extra staff and that it was not fair to the other babies for my baby to get special treatment. She griped politely, but she made it clear that she thought I was a prima donna. Oh well! I brought my own soft purple sheets and pillows and chose my clothing so that it would be comfortable so I could avoid a hospital gown.

I wholeheartedly approve of the suggestion to avoid the iron. Just don't do it, or take a much smaller dose, or experiment in advance with forms of iron that work for you.

Also, my second OB gave me prophylactic antibiotics, while the first one did not. I think that made a difference in my fast recovery.

:-)
post #89 of 104
Great Post inezyv!

Quote:
Originally Posted by inezyv
I wholeheartedly approve of the suggestion to avoid the iron. Just don't do it, or take a much smaller dose, or experiment in advance with forms of iron that work for you.
I agree but also Slow Fe is supposed to be gentler on the stomach as it is a slow release iron supplement. You should be able to get it OTC.


Anything and everything upsets my digestion but the SLow Fe kind might really work well for you. It is recommended as being gentler on the stomach than other Iron supplements.

Have you considered trying to cook with cast iron? that works well for some people.


Also, I would take any and all stool softeners they give you. *L
post #90 of 104
Thread Starter 
Good morning ladies I had a dream that I went into labor naturally, and that I was squatting...This was before I knew I was pg. Today, I had a dream that I was arguing with my doctor that I was going to go into labor early, and he wouldn't believe me. Seriously, I am under some stress here. Today, I have my U/S to see how far along I am. I was never one to really fear anything, but lately, my mind needs constant reassurance. I totally appreciate all of the info you all have given me. I feel like I have a lot of things to read up on now I decided not to see the doctor I was supposed to see, as he told me something very rude, and I now think he is a jerk. I can't see him being able to handle my body and be involved in such an intimate way and have this obnoxious attitude with me. So, because I have no real doctor now, I am going to have to drive 1 hr 1/2 to the nearest city to deliver in a hospital where my friend said have less than stellar ob nurses. : I really wanted to deliver here in my town where all of my nurses know me and my history. I am off to pray--Thanks mamas
post #91 of 104

Thanks everyone!

I've only gotten through the first page of posts on this topic, but it has set my mind at ease somewhat.

Right now my baby is breech and my OB had me schedule a c-section, with the hopes of canceling. I've still got time to turn him.
post #92 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucysmama
OTF, I don't get this: since elective cesareans are riskier for healthy moms and babies, I am wondering why exactly you are advocating that women should have that choice. Do you think it's ethical to let women subject their fetuses to stastically significantly higher risks because they want to plan a vacation around it? I'm for choice too, but when women put convienience above the welfare of their unborn babies, I think a line should be drawn.
Why? for the same reason I think women should be allowed to have abortions. Their bodies, their babies, and a lot of abortions are done for convenience. Last I checked women can have late term abortions, so why shouldn't they be able to birth the way they want too. Once you began policing one choice, it will filter into others. As I said I equally support all birth choices -- thats the nature of being prochoice (whether I agree with it or not)
post #93 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence
Why? ....so why shouldn't they be able to birth the way they want too. Once you began policing one choice, it will filter into others. As I said I equally support all birth choices -- thats the nature of being prochoice (whether I agree with it or not)
Yes, yes, YES! That's the riddle in being prochoice. It's choice. For everyone. Not "but, except, unless or however." And YES to policing one leading to policing another. I believe homebirth is safest. Plenty of people think I am endangering my health and my baby's by homebirthing. Maybe I am, even, but it is MY choice, MY body and MY baby. I have a right to healthcare that supports and safeguards my choices, whatever they are.

To the OP: since you are planning a cesarean, you have time to check out the situation you want. Really look at those less-than-great nurses and see what *you* think of the atmosphere. Really research the OBs in your area, maybe even finding one at the hospital you'd prefer. There is an article called "humanizing cesarean birth" by an OB now retired. While I doubt you could find someone to go *that* far, it is a lovely article and again, since you are planning the cesarean you have the advantage of being able to demand what you want and get as close to it as possible.
post #94 of 104
Thread Starter 
Hey LizD There are only TWO doctors in this town who will deliver babies. I have seen both : That's the problem ...tons of pg woman, and not enough doctors or midwives to deliver them. Oh, wait, we don't have midwives or doulas here They have this beautiful birthing center at the hospital, but women have to drive an hours worth or more to deliver somewhere else, because there are simply not enough people here delivering babies. Its a shame really: And the nurses at my town's hospital are exceptional. They are the kind of nurses who treat you like you are somebody rather than just another body they have to tend to. Your babies are fawned over and they are so helpful if you need to rest. I plan to visit the city's hospital where I may have to deliver just to get a feel for the place. Who knows?

ps-obviously Homebirth isn't for me, but I always wanted to do it, and I applaud any woman empowered enough and healthy enough for it
post #95 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabugx3
Hey LizD There are only TWO doctors in this town who will deliver babies. I have seen both :ick That's the problem with this town...tons of pg woman, and not enough doctors to deliver them. No midmives, nor doulas, etc. They have this beautiful birthing center at the hospital, but women have to drive an hours worth or more to deliver somewhere else, because there are simply not enough people here delivering babies. Its a shame really: And the nurses at my town's hospital are exceptional. They are the kind of nurses who treat you like you are somebody rather than just another body they have to tend to. Your babies are fawned over and they are so helpful if you need to rest. I plan to visit the city's hospital where I may have to deliver just to get a feel for the place. Who knows?
Well, again, an advantage to the scheduled surgery is you can even travel farther than, say, someone planning to labor would be comfortable doing. In other words, if someone wanting a natural birth needs to be in another state, she has to allow that huge window of time around the due date. Since you are scheduling, perhaps the nuisance of being far from home will be small in comparison to getting care you are happier with.

Since you will be seeing the OB for a pretty short time (by that I mean in terms of the delivery) and the hospital care, as you know, is really a much larger chunk of your birthing experience, you could consider the comfort of the nurses and maternity ward, as well as being in your home town, as perhaps being worth a less-than-ideal experience with the OB. Perhaps over time you and one of the docs have potential to warm up to one another?

It also crosses my mind that if, say, you should begin labor early, or some other minor "emergency," you might end up delivering your baby at your local hospital with one of these OBs performing the surgery anyway. In case of such an eventuality, you might prefer to be familiar with the doctors and hospital, and have them at least familiar with your plans and ideals, if not entirely supportive. I think for many homebirthers that's the hard part about transferring to obstetrical care- you are now in the hands of a total stranger, to whom you are also a total stranger. Continuity of care can make an enormous difference in outcome and satisfaction.

Keep us posted- as you can see many have taken a keen interest!
post #96 of 104
Thread Starter 
Will do
post #97 of 104
Here is the link to the birthlove site, which has pages of information for planning a great cesarean birth: http://www.birthlove.com. I subscribed to the site while I was planning and found it worth the money.

I would definitely travel out of town to have a good cesarean birth experience. In fact, I used that willingness to change hospitals or even cities to my advantage in the negotiation process with the hospital. It was my way or the highway.

I think the OP was not asking for a political discussion regarding whether or not she should have a cesarean section. I could be wrong, but that's just my perception. I don't think she should have to justify her decision to the members of this board.

I do know from hard experience that my own second cesarean was called "elective" but it did not feel very elective to me. My OB explained that that term has different meanings in different contexts. FWIW, I did contact one midwife near the end of my pregnancy and explain my birth history and the reason for my ob's decision to go with a cesarean. That midwife told me that she might have considered taking me early in pregnancy, but she could not accept me at 37 weeks with a medical history like mine, that it would not be a safe choice for me or the baby.

I was very resistant to having a cesarean for the second birth because the first experience had been so bad. I started with midwives and ended up with a cesarean. But the second was much better than the first, mostly because I planned and researched on my own and then advocated for my baby and me to have the best cesarean birth possible. They did not "let" me hold her in the OR, but other than that, they did every other thing. And Rosie was held on my husband's bare chest in the OR while they closed my incision.

If you think you are going to have a cesarean, plan early and it can be a good experience.
post #98 of 104

The honest truth!

I was one of those people that stayed awake often during my pregnancy staring at the ceiling thinking oh my God I might have to have a c-section and now there is no way out! (just scared of surgery - thrilled to be pregnant though).

I did everything I knew of to avoid a c-section. I did birthing classes, highered a doula, learned different labor positions, wrote a birth plan, did kegels, used the birthing ball. I went 6 days overdue. I went into labor - blah blah blah didn't progress (not even to 1 cm after 10 hours of contrax 1 minute apart). My dd was getting into distress so they had to do a c-section. I SWEAR to you that it was over very very very very fast! I did not even know that they had made the incision and then I felt the release of pressure as they pulled her out. It all happened so fast it was over very very quickly. I think the whole thing takes about 45 minutes. My doula and my husband went in with me and talked to me and held my hand (I highly recommend having someone in there with you to offer you emotional support).

I had the bikini line incision and I barely have a scar. After the first couple of months all I had was a pink line that is at the very top of my pubic hair (in the crease). She is 32months now and it is kinda white now but blends in - it is not a bad scar at all - you really barely can see it. It is covered my my panties even.

The healing - I won't lie. It hurts afterward. You are going to hurt. I nursed my baby and gladly took all the drugs they offered me and I would do it again because I know (done research) that the very minute amount of the medication that gets into mother's milk is NOTHING compared the the wonderful benefits mommy milk can provide (that is a different discussion though - just want you to know that in case you plan to nurse). Every woman is different I know but I have watched women I know climb stairs and get right out of bed a day or two after giving vaginal birth. To get out of bed I had to roll to my knees and get my legs off the bed - this is very common with c-sec because of abdomen muscles have been cut. I know other women that had c-sections that went home on Tylenol or nothing at all. It depends on the woman and her threshold for pain. I say get all the drugs you can and don't look back

Seriously though - don't be afraid to get the drugs - you will be much happier and it will be easier for you to deal with life and your other child if you are not in pain. YOu will have to do what you have to do. It is manageable and you will do fine!

Good luck to you!
post #99 of 104
Oh! Babydoll made me remember! It hurt my uterus BADLY to nurse! You know how it contracts while nursing. Well, after being cut, that really hurt me. I just wanted to prepare you! Most books don't mention that.

I personally only took Motrin even though it hurt like hell for the first week. I wanted to be mentally present. With my first section, I took the narcotics and my memories from those days are fuzzy or missing. But I remember every detail of my son's first days.

I also agree it is very very difficult to get in and out of the hospital beds. I couldn't do it without help for 36 hours. If you can, get someone to stay with you in the hospital to hold the baby while you get in and out of bed, go potty, etc.
post #100 of 104
Babydoll, your story is very similar to mine!

I never ever wanted, dreamed and totally feared a c-section. I still wise I could have had the experience of natural childbirth. (I read hawkfeather's birth story and weep. i would love to have had that experience.)

Instead, I have three healthy boys, none of which I would have without c's! I have spoken with and coached numerous friends through c's (mostly unexpected) since. Somehow, I believe it is my calling; what I can give back.
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