Obstetrics/Gynecology and Sublimation - Page 3

[eksmom]

I have always steered clear of male OB/GYNs because I didn't trust their reasons for going into the profession. For the birth of my DD, I went to a practice of 4 women OBs, and I only liked one of the 4. The others wouldn't give me any information about my own body (i.e. blood pressure, etc.) and talked down to us when we refused some prenatal testing. I don't remember how rough they were with me physically because I have always hated the indignity of internal and breast exams. I just grit my teeth and get through them.

Anyway, my mother has always believed that male OBs are nicer to women than female OBs, because (if?) they respect women's ability to give birth since it is something they cannot do / have not done. She feels that because a female OB has probably already gone through pregnancy and childbirth, she is not as likely to cut the patient some slack, answer questions, etc. It's the "I did this, you can too, now buck up, it's no big deal" attitude.

I'm not sure if I'll test out her theory the next time I am pregnant or not.

[onlyboys]

When discussing the state of modern obstetrics with my cousin who is an OB, and who firmly believes in midwifery care for ALL low-risk women, she freely admitted that she is an OB because she is a "surgery junkie." Ack.

Good discussion.

[sevenkids]

One of the best OB's I know is a man, you can't find a gentler, more compassionate birth attendant than him. And he hates surgery, lol! He actually refuses to break the bed down and sits on the end to catch, makes eye contact, and gives the most detailed informed consent I have ever heard from a doctor, waiting between contractions to continue. I've never heard him speak patronizingly to a woman, and he always speaks in soft tones.
talking to him after a difficult transport and a succesful vaginal birth, he said, "Every woman deserves the chance to say "I did it myself!"

One of the most egotistical, mysoginistic and abusive birth attendents I know is a midwife. Some women hate other women.

I think women who attend med school are under a lot of pressure to be more "old boy's club" than the old boys themselves, sort of that "We have to work twice as hard to be considered half as good" thinking. Women are accused of being too emotional, too empathetic, not having enough balls to be efficient, impersonal care providers. so, in order to fit in and survive, they put up a full suit of body armour. By the time they begin practice, it's become a habit.

[the_lissa]

IME, women doctors are gentler and more informative than men. I always thought it had to do with a kind of empathetic, BTDT kinda thing.

Although there was a history of women and medicine class in university that talked about when men took medicine away from women so to speak, and even women today are practising men's medicine.

[CherryBomb]

This is a good thread.

The history of obstertrics intrusion into birth is sad and infuriating. Not that there aren't wonderful OB's out there, but yeesh. In Ina May's Guide to Childbirth she says something about doctor's who believe in natural approaches to childbirth calling themselves "MD- midwives in disguise." Sad that so few appear to think like that.

[mandib50]

i think it is very sad that at a time when we have tremendous access to information that women actually know so little about their bodies and seem to trust our bodies so little. culturally it seems we think of our bodies as a nuisance!

think of how little women in our culture knows about our menstrual cycles and how very few women honor their body's wisdom and how we don't pass that knowledge onto our daughters. the same with birth, we hide it from each other in hospital settings where strangers make the rules and call the shots. we seek care from males who know very little about the mystery of being a woman and who set standards for care that keep us in the dark and in their control. they tell us we can make informed choices but the choices really aren't informed at all. women give birth in a setting that does not encourage women to trust their own intuition or knowledge that is within us. it does not empower women.

are there some caring compassionate male doctors/OB's? absolutely. but they are far and few between. i love the idea of women supporting and empowering and educating women. i love the idea of women taking back their power and loving the bodies we're in and trusting that we can do what we know how to do!

okay, just a few of my thoughts, i have so much more i could say but now it's back to my life
mandi

[Thmom]

this is a long article but I think very relavent to the discussion

http://www.birthpsychology.com/messages/intro.html


what saddens me the most is how many women accept this type of treatment without a seconds thought.

[Crystal_clear]

Just want to mention that this topic is discussed in Male Practice by the late Dr. Mendelsohn of How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor fame. I've been looking for a copy for a long time, but have yet to stumble across it. :

[sarajane]

your looking for the book "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" ??

Here is one on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

It is on Amazon.com too.

[katja]

Ooh, Crystal Clear, my copy of Male Practice just fell victim to my recent decluttering. I thought it was a really good book. (It's not the same as How to Raise...)

[applejuice]

Male-practice: How Doctors MANipulate Women, by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, and another:

Male-practice, by Gena Corea.

Both very good.

[Marlet]

I haven't read everything but I have to agree with the ones I have read! The intimidation comments are so true! I have gone into a new office (transferring from one to the next) and come out with things I wouldn't have gone for. I haven't gone for awhile because of my last time getting birth control. I went in to get birth control so that I could be safe at what was going on in my life at that time. The lady lectured me on having sex before I had "found the ONE man I was going to be with, the man I was going to marry". She then went on to give me a brand of birth control I specifically asked her not to give me. I asked her for anything but this brand. She asked why and I told her my issues with it. She gave me a blank stare and told me that's why she was giving me the lower dose and walked out. I wasn't about to protest. I was too scared to at that point. I was pissed for being lectured and then shocked that my requests were thrown away just like that.

I have however been lucky with never having a painful exam though. I was always baffled at why everyone told me they hurt. I have NEVER felt anything during the exam.

ETA: Thinking back I have to take that last statement back. When I went for my pregnancy confirmation for WIC the doctor I got took a culture and in doing so had to use one of those duck billed things. The nurse who was handing him things didn't put any lube on it so it went in dry and HURT like crazy! That doctor is rough. I have had him one other time and that was to check on some bleeding I was having. He did a manual exam and was not so gentle. I have since stopped seeing him (and that office).

[Crystal_clear]

Sorry if that was confusing! I'm looking for Male Practice. I have a copy of How to Raise a Healthy Child...., as well as his Confessions of a Medical Heretic (which calms and soothes me when I feel like maybe I'm a little too radical :LOL )

Sorry, don't want to hijack............

eta: I just noticed that the title is hyphenated, which may explain why I can never find it! Back to the hunt....

[sevenkids]

Originally Posted by mandib50

i think it is very sad that at a time when we have tremendous access to information that women actually know so little about their bodies and seem to trust our bodies so little. culturally it seems we think of our bodies as a nuisance!

I've noticed many younger women are terrified they'll be labeled as a {gasp!} feminist if they stick up for themselves or get "too" radical. I don't know when 'feminist" became such a dirty word, but.....there ya go.

We're expected to menstruate and deny it. "More absorbant! Slim and trim design! You can almost forget you have your period!" showing happy, obviously not menstruating, young women playing tennis, swiming, horseback riding, going on a date with really hot guy, and we're supposed to be wearing pristine white pants. "What period? I forgot all about it!"

We're supposed to birth and not feel it. In fact, we should be watching The Price Is Right from our hospital beds while the nurses watch a monitor from their desks until they tell us it's time to push.

We're supposed to have a baby and be up and bouncing around in a few days, running errands, shopping, cleaning, entertaining and we're supposed to be deliriously happy.

We're supposed to douche, powder, spray and wipe so G-d forbid our vaginas don't smell like a vagina!

[ramlita]

C_c: here's the book! Happy reading!
http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cg...1856&meta_id=1

[Full Heart]

Originally Posted by Crystal_clear

Just want to mention that this topic is discussed in Male Practice by the late Dr. Mendelsohn of How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor fame. I've been looking for a copy for a long time, but have yet to stumble across it. :

I have that book. Its extremly good. Well Actually I have both books :LOL They are both good. Also The American Way of Birth is also right up the alley with this discussion.

Michelle

[Aura_Kitten]

Originally Posted by sevenkids

We're supposed to douche, powder, spray and wipe so G-d forbid our vaginas don't smell like a vagina!

-- reminiscent of Even Cowgirls Get the Blues.

(( great post btw ))

some links of interest ~

http://www.michelodent.com/news.php?id=6

http://www.michelodent.com/news.php?id=14

http://www.freestone.org/articles/FearOfBirth.html

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by Crystal_clear

... as well as his Confessions of a Medical Heretic (which calms and soothes me when I feel like maybe I'm a little too radical :LOL )

This book was first written in 1978, twenty-seven years ago!

Many of you were not even born then!

A generation has passed, and things have not gotten much better; this makes me so sad!

A post script: I have a first edition copy, that I got signed by him personally in 1988 before he died. He is missed.

[mandib50]

[QUOTE=sevenkids]I've noticed many younger women are terrified they'll be labeled as a {gasp!} feminist if they stick up for themselves or get "too" radical. I don't know when 'feminist" became such a dirty word, but.....there ya go.

We're expected to menstruate and deny it. "More absorbant! Slim and trim design! You can almost forget you have your period!" showing happy, obviously not menstruating, young women playing tennis, swiming, horseback riding, going on a date with really hot guy, and we're supposed to be wearing pristine white pants. "What period? I forgot all about it!"


yep. not only that it is going to soon be possible for women to have not periods at all. another wonderful medical advance for women.

mandi

[Aura_Kitten]

:: bleggggh :: yeah we were just talking about the no-period issue in psych class ~ how now you can just keep on taking your birth control pills continuously with no week-long break in between, and you won't get a period.

i think my ob said it best when, years ago, he explained that our periods are like a heart beat or blood pressure: they can tell us how healthy we are, and that everything in our body is working right. when we're healthy and everything is going well, we menstruate, usually in predictable cycles. but if something is *off* a little, we might miss a period or start spotting, or our periods will be late or early... etc. if we're in tune with our bodies ~ doesn't that empower us more than suppressing a natural bodily function? (( eta: amazingly, that was one thing he was actually *right* about. ))

EDUCATION -- NOT drugs -- is the key to empowerment.