or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Anyone else *not* think babies/children are expensive??
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Anyone else *not* think babies/children are expensive?? - Page 4

post #61 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayinme
Also when you factor in if the person making that 33,600 spent over a 100K in student loans (like an atty) that 33K is really pretty bad money factoring the investment of time and money spent.
Boo hoo, they got to go to college and grad school in order to get in on the ground level of a lucrative career path. Let me go polish up my violin so I can play a sad, sad song for all the impoverished lawyers.


TiredX2, i live here, but i'm not from here. i'm from detroit and i have also lived in ann arbor, mi and atlanta, ga, and i have never been remotely within shouting distance of 33 large per annum (as a matter of fact, the highest paying job i have ever had was while i was living here and i'm still rubbing elbows with the poverty line!), so believe me when i say i know all about the cost of living in urban areas and i still just can't believe what some people think of as "poor".

and i'm still praying for that "very, very poor" stick to hit me upside the head.

any minute now...
post #62 of 130
A lawyer with $100000 of college loan debt cannot make it making 30Kish.

I don't think its fair to be dismissive of the difference between living standards in different regions. I went into the cost of living webpage and $100,000 here would translate into the $60's anywhere in the midwest or south.

So I can see where making $100000 there would put me in the rich stick category but $100,000 is an average salary here in Meglatopolos.

DB
post #63 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynsage
Boo hoo, they got to go to college and grad school in order to get in on the ground level of a lucrative career path. Let me go polish up my violin so I can play a sad, sad song for all the impoverished lawyers.



...
Do you suggest we start playing our violins for you then? because your post sounds like we all should. In fact it sound downright disgusting.

What do you suggest those that choose more lucrative careers do? drop out of school and work as a checker n a grocery store? What about a surgeon? would that kind of school debt be worthy? And who are you to decide? and to criticize? Imagine how good it would go over if someone were to criticize those living at or below the poverty level by choice. "Let me break out the violin for those.Its a class issue and its wrong.

Here's an idea. I will tell my daughter that she shouldnt go to college, because she might have a baby, and she might want to be home for any length of time with him or her, and she doesnt want to have to worry about those pesky school loans, or her neighbor who lives on bean burritos because she does have to. I will advise her to stay working at the little chinese restaraunt that she works at now. Because, you never know, she might want to have a baby! and better yet, i will advise her to marry the driver who makes $2 an hour plus tips. yes, thats it, because he's home during the day and only works at night! perfect!. And my middle boy who dreams of being the sad sack lawyer referred to in this thread, i will tell him to do the same thing. Dont go to law school honey, because you will have that debt. and forget about your asian studies major and going to school abroad, because you might fall in love with a young woman with more debt than you. Dont worry about a thing, because you and your wife can live in the basement with daddy and I. after all, i have neglected you all these years working as a nurse, and have too make it up somehow.

Sounds gross? Well its no different than some of the crap on this thread, its just reversed. Its not Ok for me to write that anymore than it is for some of our less financially solvent sisters to criticize us that are.
post #64 of 130
Quote, "Imagine how good it would go over if someone were to criticize those living at or below the poverty level by choice. "Let me break out the violin for those too lazy to get off their butts". Its class issue and its wrong."

But we had that thread a couple of months ago and it went over like the proverbial lead baloon.

No one was suggesting we not care for people in need but those of us who suggested able bodied people should work even if they don't want to work so we can target our scarce resources to those who truely cannot care for themselves were flam'ed royally.

Debra Baker
post #65 of 130
Thread Starter 
My gosh! What nasty turn did my thread take?
post #66 of 130
MEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOWWWW. It's gettin' catty in here.

:
post #67 of 130
Debra, i know the thread of which you refer to. But is it right to criticize one particular class? Why is it ok to bash an attorney with school loans and not ok to turn the mirror on the person criticizing?


How is it ok for that?
post #68 of 130
Because there is an element in society that looks at someone who delays gratification and works his or her ass off and, instead of admiring that person, grows jealous and does anything to undermine his or her success.

I have a lot of compassion for poor children and people who grew up in deprived environments. I think everyone should work hard and try to do their best. I want to help people who really cannot help themselves.

But these are really two different issues. A lawyer should be paid more than $35k/year. I really think teachers should be better paid because many teachers are sholdering large student loans as well.

I think people living in the south and midwest should understand how much a house costs here. They should understand $200 electric bills when you're living in the second most expensive utility territory. (If I lived 20 miles west my bills would be cut to literally 1/3 of what they are now. Food, insurance, yadda yadda yadda.

And I'm not even complaining I'm *reacting* to the hitting with the poor stick snide remark.

Debra Baker
post #69 of 130
Me too.
post #70 of 130
Thread Starter 
I dont know what school mimie's husband went to but many many law schools forgive your student loans per year for every year you work for something like legal aid.
post #71 of 130
I really wanted to reply to this thread but I don't like where it is headed...I see the train comin' round the bend...

I was having a conversation with my step mother last night and I told her that I would like to have another child. She is the oldest of 9 and never wanted children of her own. She couldn't understand why we would be thinking about taking such a huge "risk" financailly having another child. She basically cited all the reasons PP have. While I understand why she formed her opinions and I respect them, I also disagree with them.

And yes, babies are super cheap for our family, it the big ones that drain us! I told SM that it would be wasteful NOT to have another baby with all our clothes and diapers and such! :LOL

BTW, I am pursuing my education now and it is going to cost $$! I am grateful that I am not burdened with the huge debt that most of my friends are. One of my friends is a doctor, (and her salary is about 8 times what our family makes) and I honestly think (poor as we are) that we are better off financailly due to their loans. I feel badly for her, but I don't think that she should have not recieved her education. I wish I had her education, but not her debt, and unfourtunatly they usually go together.

I desperatly want all of my children to attend college and we will help them out as best as we can. I also want them to all be homeowners, and I will do my best to help them with that as well.

I believe that the descion to enlarge your family should remain personal and individual. In example some of us here only wear used clothing and for others that isn't acceptable. There isn't anything "wrong" with either POV, but it will influence decisions on either end.
post #72 of 130
Yikes, I am going to skip the last 10ish posts and go back to something that the individual who is considering ttc asked about the "start-up costs". I don't think it is un-AP to want to decorate your dcs room. I decorated each of the kids rooms - it just didn't cost that much. I mean with my first ds we were lucky enough to have my parents buy us the crib and I registered for sheets and bought fabric with coupons from Joann's and got some posters from posters.com (we didn't get a changing table because we lived in a very small place and dss room was essentially a converted closet so there was not enough floor space - put me on the list of folks living in an expensive metro area!!!!!)

Anyway, with my second we had moved but we reused the crib as well as the second hand dresser/rocker we bought the first time and we spent about $30 on paint, $30 on a border, $30 on new prints, and $40 on curtains (thanks to Bed, Bath and Beyond coupons), I bought sheets and a crib skirt from Goodwill for a total of $4.00....I think that is what mamas are saying.

First off, you register when you have a first baby and find that the birth of a child brings out incredible generosity in your family and friends - I have never been so touched by how giving people can be....

Regarding college costs - dh and I both went to state schools and paid for it ourselves. If at all possible we would like our kids to have an array of options....including community college and a state school but we have also agreed that if a different option presents itself as better for them we would like to be able to help them follow their own path, does that make sense?

BJ
Barney & Ben
post #73 of 130
i did not dismiss the cost of living difference. i acknowledged it and reiterated that it still would not cause one to be "very, very poor" at the $33,000 mark.

i am not jealous of lawyers and i do not envy those with the burden of student loans. my best friend is a doctor and she has huge student loans. i am very proud of her and i occasionally worry about the massive debt she is in now that med school is over, but i know she is on a career path that is going to enable her to pay off that debt.

she, like all of my other friends who got through college on student loans, would never DREAM of opening her mouth and calling her (low for a doctor in seattle, but VERY high compared to the global or even national standard of living) income "very, very poor".

i am not expecting anyone to play the violin for me. i have a daughter to raise and i am putting myself through midwife studies one workshop and intensive at a time, as i am able to afford them. i had my daughter by choice, and i also chose a career path (traditional midwifery) that does not involve the possibility of student loans, so i have to pay for my classes up front. i manage to do this and eke out a living on 16,000 a year, and i have done it in major urban areas with a high cost of living. i don't think i'm doing too badly, and i certainly don't want anyone to pity or look down on me. my kid is taken care of, and i'll achieve my goals eventually.

but would i ever have the gold-plated brass cojones to describe myself as "very, very poor" when i've never gone more than two days without eating? absolutely not.
post #74 of 130
"non-english-speaking driver". hmm, okay.

sweetbaby3, your post is so packed with racist, classist contempt that i all i can say is wow. just.... wow.
post #75 of 130
I think that part of the feeling that "babies & children are expensive" comes from the great "unknown". You know, that feeling that you aren't completely sure what you are getting into & want to be prepared for all situations?

In our family, babies are expensive. Every one of my children has had a NICU stay, and all but one has had a surgery in their first 6 weeks of life (and Megan has had about 10 surgeries - 6 minor, 4 major). We pay a $500 family deductible and then 10% of the balance. I know that we have great health ins. but 10% of a $40,000 bill is still 4K. They all take some form of meds (our copays are 25% of the cost, unless we go mail order - which we try to do when we can).

Our children, as they have aged (they are 10,7,4.5, and 18m), have required "more" from us in many areas. I am a SAHM and long for the days when I actually got to stay at home! We drive a minivan, our children attend school about 15 min away from our home & have one or two activities that they each ('cept for the baby) participate in. Add in bday parties, clothing (they wear uniforms to school), shoes, food (feingold diet family), etc. And, I would say that having another *baby* wouldn't be a major expense (save for the inevitable NICU stay ) but having another *child* would be.
post #76 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynsage
"non-english-speaking driver". hmm, okay.

sweetbaby3, your post is so packed with racist, classist contempt that i all i can say is wow. just.... wow.
Calling the kettle black? Yours isnt much better. Yours oozes classist contempt as well. But i was trying to make a point. Its ok for you, but not me, right? isnt that how it works?

I will edit. But only part.

And for the record, I included the non english speaking part not because i am racist, but because it further limits his employment options. Thats why i said it, not because i am racist.

If you want to go there, by all means, lets go.
post #77 of 130
Looks like the college topic is being well covered :LOL My DH's parents thought they were in the "poor enough" bracket that he'd get college paid for and they weren't... but had no way to help him. So he racked up student loans. Sucks, takes a HUGE portion of our earnings- but we still do better than we would had he not gone to college.

Cost of living of course makes a huge difference in what a fair salary is. We moved from somewhere that we paid 50 a month in property tax to 400 a month in property tax. That alone means our salary had to be 5000K greater a year to break even.

Another area to think about it the possible costs of children. Granted, it can be cheap- but it can spiral out of control when there is a need or a problem that needs help. From mild therapy to massive surgeries. There is a potential cost no matter how few baby things you need.

Kids can be cheap- and we spend very little in parenting, but there is the potential risk for high cost no matter how frugal you are. And some say "well, there is always government aid, etc,..." and that is OK. But that isn't always the ideal a particular couple may hope for... when you accept medicaid for example, you also have to accept that they will provide care by their specifications, not yours. So it might be western medicine over acupuncture. The more help you have, the fewer options you are given. As sad as that is.

Then there is lifestyle and choices. I love to travel, I love to stay in hotels, I love to camp, I love to go and do. The more kids we have, the harder these things will become. The more they will cost. It isn't a needed part of parenting, but it is a part of my life and should be considered when we discuss having more kids.

I'm guessing your SIL just can't relate to being happy and content with a more sustainable approach to finances. As you can't (???) relate to a desire for name brands and expensive baby items. It isn't her place to suggest that you aren't financially capable though, and I'd be hurt at the disrespect of assuming you aren't a logical enough human to make such a decision. It would be similar to you saying "are you sure you should buy that toy? Aren't you afraid you're going overboard and spoiling him?" It just isn't our palce to decide what is appropriate within other families, you know? I'm sorry you had to deal with that. People just have a hard time seeing outside of their box sometimes, you know?
post #78 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
Calling the kettle black? Yours isnt much better. Yours oozes classist contempt as well. But i was trying to make a point. Its ok for you, but not me, right? isnt that how it works?

...

If you want to go there, by all means, let's go.
My contempt is not for the "upper" classes or people with money. I have lots of people with money in my life. It is for those people with money who have, but insist upon describing themselves as if they were the have-nots. The use of "very, very poor" to describe a 33,000 a year income anywhere is nothing short of contemptible.

But your final comment obviously indicates you want a fight, not a discussion, so I'll leave it at that- and while we're at it, we should probably stop hijacking the thread.
post #79 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynsage
But your final comment obviously indicates you want a fight, not a discussion, so I'll leave it at that- and while we're at it, we should probably stop hijacking the thread.
Nah, I dont want to fight, i was just angry. *sigh*

But you are right about the hijacking part. we should stop, and i will.

On a lighter note, I am going to my daughters senior luncheon, for parents and families. She is graduating from high school next month.
post #80 of 130
Well, congratulations to you and your daughter, mama!

Ok, really shutting up now
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › Anyone else *not* think babies/children are expensive??