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Gender Variant/transgendered children - Page 2

post #21 of 65
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shared dd's experience...decided not to at this time.
post #22 of 65
There are a lot of great mamas on MDC, but I believe that you are truly exceptional. What an outstanding mother you are. To put your daughter's interests before what some people might think is a brave act of mama power.

I seriously do not have words. Except just thank you for being here. Thank you for being in the world and doing the right thing for your kid.

and dharmamama, ma vie en rose is my favorite movie too!
post #23 of 65
Wow.
post #24 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmamama
Have you seen the movie Ma Vie en Rose? If not, you should. It's my favorite movie.

You rock. Your daughter is so extremely lucky.

Namaste!
I agree Dharmamama, Ma Vie en Rose is beautiful. I saw it quite a few years ago. Maybe about a year or so before my daughter declared herself, but during the time where I was watching and waiting and wondering. I certainly saw a lot of my daughter, in the beautiful child in the movie. I watched it with an adult transgendered woman friend of mine, who had transitioned quite late in life. She felt it was like watching her childhood played out before her eyes. Complete with the awful reactions from the people around her.
post #25 of 65
Also, have you read "She's Not There"

Very interesting written by very funny college prof who went m to f transition after he already had a wife and kids.

Mostly very upbeat and will make you glad your dd transitioned when she did.
post #26 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44
Also, have you read "She's Not There"

Very interesting written by very funny college prof who went m to f transition after he already had a wife and kids.

Mostly very upbeat and will make you glad your dd transitioned when she did.
Thanks for the suggestion. Getting it from the library.
post #27 of 65
Thread Starter 

Jackson's mama - re: hormones

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson's mama
I'm curious (if you don't mind me asking)... you mention hormones. Have you been able to find someone in the medical field to work with you? I would think it would be hard to find a pediatrician to prescribe hormones in a situation like your daughter's, but I know there must be a few out there who would be sensitive to her issues. Just wondering if you've got a supportive medical person to help out.
I haven't found anyone to work with us with regard to hormones at the moment. I live in Australia, where there is, to my knowledge, one psychiatrist in the Country who specialises whith children with gender issues. From what I've read of her, she's great. But we haven't seen her yet. We're hoping to make the trip (8 hour drive) some time in the next few months. I'm hoping that she can then advise us on endocrinologists, though I also fear that there won't be one willing to work with us.
It seems from what I've read that with young children, if they can start hormone blockers before puberty, they won't develop the secondary sex characteristics of their biological sex. This, of course, makes life much easier in adulthood. One great thing is that it isn't a permenant change, so there's much less pressure. If they find later in their teens that they aren't so sure, they can stop taking the blockers and the effects are reversible. They will begin a delayed puberty for their biological sex.
We still have a few years to find an endocrinologist for my daughter, and I suppose we will have to look overseas if we don't find one here (I say, shuddering - single homeschooling mum with minimal income....)
A year or so ago there was a very public case here in Australia of a 13 year old boy (FTM) who was a ward of the state, who gained permission through the Family Court to begin hormone treatment to prevent menstruation and further feminisation. The media went wild, and a lot of the response was just so closed minded and ugly. It makes it that much nicer to hear from such open and accepting folk here and in the other cyberspaces I roam.
Jenn
post #28 of 65
Jenn, do you ever wonder if 7 is too young to make such a life-defining decision? I mean, I hear you saying that it's not a decision, but then you go on to say that hormones aren't permanent, and that's a good thing in case your child later on decides he or she is not so sure. So I'm a little unclear on if you think it's a decision or not.

Also, are you going to change your child's name to something more traditionally feminine, since that's the preference being expressed?
post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneymoonBaby

Also, are you going to change your child's name to something more traditionally feminine, since that's the preference being expressed?
I was going to ask that same question.

I'm glad your children have such a supportive mama.
post #30 of 65
Thread Starter 

choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneymoonBaby
Jenn, do you ever wonder if 7 is too young to make such a life-defining decision? I mean, I hear you saying that it's not a decision, but then you go on to say that hormones aren't permanent, and that's a good thing in case your child later on decides he or she is not so sure. So I'm a little unclear on if you think it's a decision or not.

Also, are you going to change your child's name to something more traditionally feminine, since that's the preference being expressed?
No. I don't think it's a choice at all. I'm a lesbian, and I knew it when I was 6 or so. I think we all know lots about ourselves as young people. It just doesn't always compel us to make ourselves known to others. The attraction of comfort and acceptance is something familiar to children and adults alike. And then there are the issues and the individuals which call for self expression and acknowledgement so clearly that they can not be ignored.

My daughter is one such person, and her issue (in truth our issue - it belongs to us all) is one of those situations in which negating one's experiences is so often felt as negating one's self. Insufferable.

While I'm not placing this opinion on anyone here, I so struggle with the attitude often found in the dominant anglo culture that says that there is some clear and definitive point at which a child becomes a person who can know their own mind and their own experiences. In my experience of parenting, I've never seen such a point emerge. My children have been conscious and expressive beings since birth.

I mentioned the reversability of the hormone treatment actually in an attempt to address others' potential fears about just this issue. No, I don't think 7 is too young to live out one's personal truth. But I know of myself that my life has taken me through many life altering and affirming transitions after which, when I look back at the lense through which I was looking before, I barely recognise it any more. The one gift I value highly in my life is the capacity to change myself and my understanding of everything, as many times as such changes arise, wherever they may take me. I hope both my girls inherit such a gift from my parenting. Or maybe it's the gift they brought to me?

Will my daughter change her name? She doesn't want to change her first name, and where we live it's commonly used as a girls name anyway. Her middle name is a 'male' name. She will change it legally whenever we get around to it. My other daughter doesn't like her middle name either, and will change it also at the same time. But either of my children are welcome to name themselves.

Hope this clears up the mixed message of my previous post.
Jenn
post #31 of 65
My only thoughts are she will never experience child birth like her eldest sister, and sexual pleasures are not likely to be the same as in a biologically female body. Nor will he have the opportunity to have biological children or experience the pleasure of his male organ's potential, if he takes on the gender of a female and you do get hormones to suppress male puberty.

Just a forward thinker, I guess... I always think this whether it's a boy turned girl for bad circ job or a child born w an unclear sex and someone makes the decision to make the child a boy or a girl depending on what's there. The area of their future sexual relations and reproduction really gets to me -- maybe b/c these things have brought me great joy in my life.
post #32 of 65
well, but there's no guarantee that the older sister will experience childbirth, either, is there? Nor, unfortunately, any guarantees for any of us of sexual enjoyments of particular kinds or others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by This LifeTime Mother
While I'm not placing this opinion on anyone here, I so struggle with the attitude often found in the dominant anglo culture that says that there is some clear and definitive point at which a child becomes a person who can know their own mind and their own experiences. In my experience of parenting, I've never seen such a point emerge. My children have been conscious and expressive beings since birth.
yeah, I really am feeling this strongly with my kid who is only just 2 and a half, she is very much her own person and she very much knows it.
post #33 of 65
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post #34 of 65
You are a great mom. More kids would do well having a parent who is so accepting


Now- For the ignorant part of me and the scientist. Do we (the human race) understand why some people are male or female yet the body isn't? I am just curious on the science of this. I know it is not a "disease" nor is it "bad" and that is NOT what I am implying. I am really curious why this happens to some people...

No offense is meant by this question and I hope it is not interpreted that way
post #35 of 65
I feel compelled to write something. i am not answering any questions. Just wanting to tell you all my experience. My ds who is nearly 4 is constantly telling us that he wants to be a girl. When I ask him why, he says it's b/c I am a "girl" and he loves me. He often wears a burp cloth or play silks as hair and takes on very feminine characteristics. My parents are constantly on my case about this, and while I am not sure how prepared I am to have a transgendered child, I have always adopted the attitude that I want my ds to know that I love him no matter what and he doesn't have to hide anything from me. I hate hearing about children who knew they were gay or transgendered or something else, but hid it from the parents b/c of fear. I don't know if my child is just trying to identify with me, or if he really feels like a girl. He has recently asked me if a dr. could turn him into a girl. Interesting question, and I just try so hard to explore these ideas with him without passing judgement. It is really difficult. So to the op, you are an exceptional mama and I hope I can adopt your attitude if my ds decides to be "different".
post #36 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by prmom
I feel compelled to write something. i am not answering any questions. Just wanting to tell you all my experience. My ds who is nearly 4 is constantly telling us that he wants to be a girl. When I ask him why, he says it's b/c I am a "girl" and he loves me. He often wears a burp cloth or play silks as hair and takes on very feminine characteristics. My parents are constantly on my case about this, and while I am not sure how prepared I am to have a transgendered child, I have always adopted the attitude that I want my ds to know that I love him no matter what and he doesn't have to hide anything from me. I hate hearing about children who knew they were gay or transgendered or something else, but hid it from the parents b/c of fear. I don't know if my child is just trying to identify with me, or if he really feels like a girl. He has recently asked me if a dr. could turn him into a girl. Interesting question, and I just try so hard to explore these ideas with him without passing judgement. It is really difficult. So to the op, you are an exceptional mama and I hope I can adopt your attitude if my ds decides to be "different".
I actually have nothing useful to say, just, strength to you and your child, and perhaps the op has good ideas for you. Something about your post strikes me and I just want to say, I hear you, I hope you find a good away to walk your path...
post #37 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foobar
Now- For the ignorant part of me and the scientist. Do we (the human race) understand why some people are male or female yet the body isn't? I am just curious on the science of this. I know it is not a "disease" nor is it "bad" and that is NOT what I am implying. I am really curious why this happens to some people...

No offense is meant by this question and I hope it is not interpreted that way
I don't think it's an ignorant part, or an offensive question. I'm no expert 'cause I don't tend to read the research that others in my support network bring my attention to, but there seems to be a bit out there at the moment about in-utero brain changes around the hypothalmic region (I think). I'll try to link some articles in the next day or so when I get a bit of time to try to work out how...
Truly I respect and admire anyone who feels interested enough to be even drawn to ask the questions. Thank you for your interest. Maybe someone else here knows more about the 'how'.
Jenn
post #38 of 65

My Gender dysphoric child

I am mum to Alison (11) James (10) Dugald (7) & Alasdair (6). I am a widow, my husband having been killed 5 years ago.
My problem is with James; when he was two and a half he proclaimed in a loud voice that he was a girl. At the time we lived in Scotland, and he insisted on wearing a kilt like his big sister and playing only with her dolls and barbies. Every time we suggested his (blonde) hair should be cut we got tantrums, so we thought "what the h*ll" he’s only wee and lots of wee boys have longish hair. Then he started to "borrow" Alison’s dresses and even if they were an inch or so too long, he looked like an adorable little girl. My husband & I thought it was just a phase, but he was constantly telling me that "God had given him the wrong body". A year and a bit later when he went to nursery school there was still no change he insisted on wearing his kilt. With his bobbed hair, he was constantly mistaken for a wee lassie. At nursery school he played only with the girls and adored their dress-up hamper. One day he took off his kilt and replaced it with a pink tutu and refused to take it off when it was time to go home. I promised it would be returned the next day, but it was a Friday and he wore it all weekend, and I was able to get him back into his kilt on the Monday. We bought ‘normal’ boys’ clothes, shorts, dungarees, etc for him, but he hated wearing them. When asked why, he replied they were boys’ clothes and as he was a girl he shouldn’t wear them. We explained that girls often wear boys’ things, pointing to his dungaree-clad elder sister. All he said was that he didn’t want people to think he was a boy. It was about this time that Dugald was born, and rather than argue with James we tended to let him have his way.
We had consulted our doctor about Jem and he had referred us to a child psychiatrist who assured us that he would probably grow out of it very soon, but there was an outside possibility that he was Gender Dysphoric—this was the first time I had come across the term.
When I was expecting Alasdair we moved to England. We lived in the country and didn’t have any very close neighbours which was a blessing as far as James’s behaviour was concerned. Shortly after the move Hamish was killed while abroad on business.
They, thank goodness seemed to be showing the signs of being normal boys. Before his father’s death James had decided that he didn’t like being called James and chose the name Jemima (after the duck in Beatrix Potter’s story), which we shortened to Jem as this is a fairly common shortening of James. I was now the breadwinner, although Hamish had been wise and left us reasonably well provided for.
Soon after settling in England we consulted our new doctor and she sent us to see another child psychiatrist who told us the same thing, but asked us to keep in touch.
The time had come for Jem to go to Primary School, and there was no way (s)he could go as a girl and he couldn’t wear a kilt to school in England—it would be asking for trouble. We had tantrums, tantrums and more tantrums as well as pitiful tears. He said he wanted to cut off his penis so he wouldn’t have a boy’s body any more. In the end he agreed that he would wear boys’ clothes to school and he could become Jemima as soon (s)he got home. I compromised by dressing him in clothes that could be worn by either boys of girls, but he preferred if they were in more "girly" colours. His hair was still in a longish bob and several of the other kids couldn’t decide what (s)he was as he always gravitated towards the girls and played with them. Alison was at the same school (a year ahead of Jem) and she kept an eye on her/him to make sure (s)he didn’t get bullied. Jem soon made friends with another girl (Nicola) and they became best friends; I soon discovered that they were born on the same day and they told me they were probably twins. When Jem told Nicky that (s)he was really a girl trapped in a boy’s body, Nicky said that she always felt (s)he was a girl. When Nicky comes to play Jem always wears girl’s clothes ((s)he has her own now) and Nicky decided her best friend should be called Jemma.
Now Jem(ma) is 10 and she’s getting worried that her voice will break one day and she doesn’t want this to happen. She is so obviously a girl in thoughts and behaviour it. She knows all about S.R.Surgery and is determined that that is what she wants eventually. But most of all she wants to live as a girl all time and go to school as a girl. (S)he takes after Hamish in one way in that (s)he is very sporting and plays netball in a mixed team at school (Alison and Nicky are in the team too). The only thing that spoils it for her is that that she’s not allowed to wear a netball skirt, although on April 1st she and the other boy in the team both wore girls’ netball kit as an April Fool joke on their netball teacher. She thought they looked great and said that they should always wear girls’ kit; this was fine for Jem, but the other boy said "No Way" very loudly. That day they were playing against an all-girl team and I don’t think their opponents realised there were 2 (well, one, I suppose!) boys playing against them. I had always loved playing netball and carried playing on as an adult; Jem and Alison often came with me to watch me and Jem wanted to play so much.
In a year’s time Jem will have to go to secondary school, and I can see there will be problems. Jem wants to live full time as a girl and go to school as a girl. At his present school most of the other kids seem to think of her as if she was a girl. The headmistress knows of her problem and she and the other teachers keep a close eye open in case of bullying or name-calling.
I would like her to have some puberty-blocking drug (HRT?) to delay puberty until (s)he is old enough to know if she really wants to go ahead with it. For the last seven and a half years she has been a girl at home. My mum is fully convinced that Jem should have been a girl and is very supportive. Alison, too is convinced and is very protective of her "brister". The only thing she objects to is Jem borrowing her knickers (panties in the US) without asking!
If we lived in Holland things would be easier as they seem to be much more sensible about things like this.
I discovered this site on Google and found Jenn (ThisTimeLifeMother)’s post rang a number of bells. I would love to know how things are going with your number 2 girl.

Morag
post #39 of 65
Wow. That's all I can say. You are an absolutely amazing mom.
post #40 of 65
You are wonderful!!!

I didn't have the courage to come out to my mom (as a bisexual female) until I was 26 yrs. old, and even then did so only because I was extremely depressed, already on the phone with her and just couldn't hold it in anymore. She took it *ok* , but admitted to me that she was glad i had not come out earlier because she did not think she would have taken it well at all....I still have not come out to the rest of my family. I guess I don't feel like there's any point since I have been married all this time, and we don't have an open marriage so it's not like I'd be introducing them to my girlfriend anytime soon...

I wish there were a lot more moms like you out there.
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