Internal raging at 13 y/o DD help me!! - Page 2

[johub]

Our talk about the lighter was very similar. I told her that I am very committed to her not smoking and that I know she knows how bad it is for her health and how it makes you smell and turns your teeth yellow. She gave me the usual "my friends left it on the table at the bagel shop and I picked it up for them". I do tell her how I feel and we manage these communications in conversational friendly terms. But I am left questioning whether or not she is the least bit concerned about what I think. Not only is she disregarding the values I have tried to instill, she has been disregarding her own long held beliefs and values in an effort to conform to this new group.
I did not punish her because her story was plausable and seeing a lighter is not the same as actually witnessing her smoking.
So I play all casual and talk to her about it over ice cream. And then I go to bed and lie awake and think "if she goes to her friends house after school will she be smoking? Do I let her go to her friends who I know smokes and whose parents let her smoke? How do I protect without taking away her hard earned freedom?" I can't. I can't spend the past 12 years preparing her to be independant and letting her have increasing and increasing freedom only to take it all away because I am so afraid of what she would do with that freedom. (and when I say OBSESSING I mean exactly this, spending way too much time and energy worryign about these problems, certanly more than they deserve)
Seriously, where do you draw the line?
I have heard it said that you do your best to instill your values and then when they hit this age you stand back and hold your breath and hope they make it out ok. I love her too much to let go easily. I have also heard that it gets easier around 16-17. That is a great comfort to me. Until I read about the teen pregnancy rate of 14 year olds and that most adults who have life long smoking addictions started at age 12 and 13.
For the very first time in her life she can make mistakes that could change her life forever. And at this same time I have less and less control.
Deep down in her very core she is a GOOD child! She is brilliant and ambitious, and I am hoping against hope that her ambition and greed will win the day when she no longer thinks about moms' words of wisdom. Hopefully she will not do anythign to risk her future success for her own reasons.
I have always parented very deliberately. And perhaps that is one reason I am having so much difficulty now. Until this time I was always pretty sure of exactly what I was supposed to do. What the "right" thing was to get the ideal result etc. . . I have always overthought my decisions as a mother, and until now it has served me well. It is not an obstacle when your path is clear. I have only now reached a point where my path no longer seems clear.
Thank you for posting. It really helps to talk to other mothers of 13 year olds.
Joline

[Wugmama]

Hi Joline,

First, . I can see how this thread is just completely upsetting you when you came here for support. I posted briefly earlier, and certainly didn't mean to further upset you. I was mainly responding to your first 4 sentences of your original post. Since then you have added more info and I really don't have a good picture at all of what is happening with you and your daughter, but it sounds totally stressful and I hope you find ways to cope and that it gets better for your whole family.

I only have one dd, and she is 3. I have found myself getting so angry at her for doing totally normal, but completely frustrating, 2 or 3 yr old things. I have never hit her or anything like that but have been way less patient than I should have been and have done and said things that I regret. I would probably lose my mind if I had 3 toddlers at home - forget about a teenager on top of it, I'd be totally bonkers - don't know how you manage on a day to day basis!

But at any rate, I have felt rage at both my dh and dd at different times, epecially during the first two years. I believe I was depressed and had asked a family practice doc for antidepressants but she said only if I quit bf'ing so I didn't take them. I am fortunate enought to be doing better now. Your first couple of statements in your original post reminded me of my own situation. My daughter was being a typical 2 yr old and I was having a disproportional response, which I attribute to possibly depression (runs very strongly in my family, with the affected person usually angry and anxious).

In my earlier post I was trying to encourage you to not blame your daughter for what it sounded like according to your original description as disproportional responses you were feeling. I know you don't want to feel that way, it just eats you up inside. It sounded like she was doing typical teen age things and you would be upset and think about them all day when she was basically a good kid, and to me these just sound like red flags for you.

This is pretty basic, but are you getting enough sleep? I think sleep deprivation really affected me, and I know if can have a powerful impact on people's basic emotions and emotional control and thought process too. Mine DD still gets up at least once a night to nurse, but it is better than it used to be, so I get more sleep than before and it has really helped me.

I really feel for you and wish your whole family well.

[johub]

There are times when I have been sleep deprived (my 18 month old twins still nurse once at night, but when they teethe it could be hourly)
And of course those times are much worse. The whole world looks bleak until I get some sleep.
My anger is in disproportoin but I do not think it is because of anything chemical or lack of sleep. I think that it is my FEAR which takes every small thing and magnifies it as if it means I have failed and she will become a delinquent now that she no longer seems to listen to me.
It is true that when we overreact certainly there is something else going on. I really need to let go of the fear and just deal with life as it comes. I am normally SO good at this! I have just never been this scared as a parent before.
If I coudl have a dollar for every time I said to someone else "worrying is a waste of energy, and it never helps anything"
Oops phone call it is a teacher wanting a conference about behavior.
HOly cow.
I am not making this up. She is not letting up.
Well I will make every effort to not agonize over "what now" for a single minute between now and tomorrow's appointment!
Who am I kidding.
Joline

[journeymom]

Hmmmm.

So, is your issue (here) that you have feelings of anxiety and anger that you don't want to have?

Or, is your issue that you want your daughter to not smoke cigarettes and get sexually involved?

They are really different issues that require different perspectives. However, they are linked. If your emotions aren't out of whack, if your moods aren't ruling your actions, then you are better able to respond to your daughter rationally, even when she isn't.

Yes, you should be upset about finding a cigarette lighter in her bag and finding her making out at the mall. But, what of it?

Is it possible that your daughter really would like to -see- you get angry at her? Perhaps that would be proof in her book that #1, you are a normal human being with normal emotions, not some super self disciplined unapproachable person, and #2 you care what happens to her.

Something else to think about. She's female. She's your oldest. These are two really important facts about your daughter that affect how you think about her. Do you worry that her actions reflect upon you personally? Do you think your other children's actions reflect upon you in the same way? It's no accident that many books have been written about the mother/daughter relationship. It's incrediably dynamic. I dunno, maybe I'm assuming too much here again, but I do get into that mindset with my own dd. What she does, basically -who she is- is more important to me than my ds. And believe me, it's not like ds is being neglected or I don't care about him. It's probably easier for him because I don't take his actions as personally. He has more freedom to be himself, from me at least.

[johub]

Originally Posted by journeymom

Hmmmm.

<<So, is your issue (here) that you have feelings of anxiety and anger that you don't want to have? >>
Well, mostly that I am letting these emotions get the better of me and occupy far more of my energy than I have to spare or even than they deserve.

<<Or, is your issue that you want your daughter to not smoke cigarettes and get sexually involved? >>
Oh certainly this is an issue, and I am having trouble dealing with them by responding as above rather than in a more constructive way.
Yes this is a problem, but it becomes a BIGGER problem when I do not handle it constructively and obsess over it!
So yes, I am having problems with her behavior, but my bigger issue is how I am letting my concern over her behavior take over my life. (ok sorry I am exaggerating again a wee bit)

<<They are really different issues that require different perspectives. However, they are linked. If your emotions aren't out of whack, if your moods aren't ruling your actions, then you are better able to respond to your daughter rationally, even when she isn't. >>
Boy have you hit the nail on the head with this one!!! She is not thinking rationally now. I see evidence of it all the time. And so I had better not make things worse by becoming irrational myself for crying out loud! That would be the blind leading the blind! (or attempting to)

<<Yes, you should be upset about finding a cigarette lighter in her bag and finding her making out at the mall. But, what of it?>>
Exactly, I need to deal with it, decide if any action needs to be taken and then LET GO. And not think about it ad nauseum.

<<Is it possible that your daughter really would like to -see- you get angry at her? Perhaps that would be proof in her book that #1, you are a normal human being with normal emotions, not some super self disciplined unapproachable person, and #2 you care what happens to her. >>
Again this is very perceptive. It is VERY possible. This one day she was mouthy at the dinner table and her dad just got right in her face, and it was done and over with so quickly and her demeaner was better all night! But I have never learned how to express anger. Even as a child, if I got really angry all I would do was cry. And there are certain ways she pushes me that really appear for all means and purposes to be contrived JUST to push my buttons to see what I will do.
When I get angry I shut down and don't know how to let it out, then I think all the angry thoughts and they grow, till I rage (not punching holes in walls, just fuming inside) a while, and then try to get over it.
My favorite thing in the past was to sit down and have a nice chat after things had all cooled down. Be rational and explain why I was concerned and why I think things should be this way or that way and the reasons behind those rules etc. She would "see the light" and we would hug and go on our way.
But now that she is not really functioning very well with her rational brain, I feel like I suddenly no longer have the right tools to parent her. (hense fantasizing about sending her to boarding school or beating her)

<<Something else to think about. She's female. She's your oldest. These are two really important facts about your daughter that affect how you think about her. Do you worry that her actions reflect upon you personally? Do you think your other children's actions reflect upon you in the same way? It's no accident that many books have been written about the mother/daughter relationship. It's incrediably dynamic. I dunno, maybe I'm assuming too much here again, but I do get into that mindset with my own dd. What she does, basically -who she is- is more important to me than my ds. And believe me, it's not like ds is being neglected or I don't care about him. It's probably easier for him because I don't take his actions as personally. He has more freedom to be himself, from me at least.

>>
I see this sometimes but I am actively working on fighting against it. For example I am ms Jeans and T-shirt, and preppy when dressed up a little. It really bugs the daylights out of me that she wants to be all "goth" and wear black hair and black eyeliner and lipstick, and black clothing and that she takes pictures of herself with these horrible faces etc. . . I am worried that people will judge her character based on the fact that she LOOKS like a delinquent. I didn't think that looking like one would lead to being one so I held my breath and let her be who she wants. But deep down do I think it makes me look bad? Yes. I try to fight those feelings though.
And the WORST part of it for her is that her entire life she has been compared to mom. Everywhere we go, everbody she meets she gets told how remarkably she looks like me. And she is in the same gifted programs I was and she has many of the same talents etc. . .
I have often lamented this attention because I always felt that the day would come when she would no longer relish being compared to me. And that the frequent comparisons might give her reason to feel she has to proove she is different.

You have made some very good points journeymom and I really appreciate your response. It has made me think. I had not realized until just now that part of her actions could be this desire to proove she is NOT Mini Me any more.
And about "assuming too much" you really seem to have a feel for what I am really talking about and I really appreciate that. (really really really)
Joline

[Ruby]

Are you more concerned about your anger or her behavior or are the two entwined? I would be angry if my dd was going down that path. I'm confused as why you don't think you should limit her freedoms if she isn't being responsible.

The chores. What do I need to do to indicate to her that her chores are mandatory

This is simple no extracuricullar activities till chores are done and done well. I"ve had to have my dd redo something when she has been lazy. If we accept poor work we are reinforcing poor work habit.

Young teens are tough. You're going to have to be tougher and not rationalize poor behavior to survive.