johnson&johnson ad, what's wrong with this picture - Page 3

[boston]

I am still not convinced this "family" is representing the mainstream lifestyle. Okay they have a crib that the baby sleeps in, at least when the parents get it on.... and they use (non-organic) (animal tested?) J & J products (at least once, we don't know about what else they use or how often) and we're told this product helps their baby sleep.

but here's the thing. If I had a potion that helped my baby sleep so I could get it on with my hot husband -- I would be all over that shiznit. and HELL YES I would have the baby in another room for said getting-it-on! I'm sorry but I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

And I don't think ownership of a crib implies a family isnt natural or even AP. Maybe it was a gift from the in laws and they usually use it to store laundry? Maybe they use it only for getting it on. Maybe they don't cosleep but they're still AP? Hello people, it's not AP law that you have to do all this stuff. Yes this is the cosleeping forum and you're especially sensitive to it here. But who says this "family" doesn't cosleep? That's quite an assumption.

You know what, I am so deeply crunched out that I forget people don't do things all-natural way* in which I do them. (*well, for the most part) so why assume it's the worst when you could assume it's the best?! revolutionize thought and be happy for them, getting it on. Maybe it's their first time in 6 months! Maybe they're ttc!

I havent seen the ad cos I'm way too crunchy to watch tv, but I bet their bedding was organic cotton and they don't circ.

Yes, natural lifestyles ought to be promoted more. But commercials and television are ambiguous. So is life.

[Vicitoria]

WHOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!!! :LOL

[Messac888]

I feel like I'm stepping into a battlefield here, so I'll add my two cents and then leave quietly.

My family APs. The people in the commercial are people in a commercial. They do not AP nor are they mainstream. They are actors and actresses earning a dollar by laying in bed with a dog while a baby is laying in a crib. The end.

Seriously, I totally understand how the J&J commercial doesn't PROMOTE AP but I wouldn't say it "brings it down" either. The ad is meant to promote their products to the mass majority of people, which are typically mainstream parents, not AP parents. Yes, more and more people don't circ- the commercial wasn't for circumcisions. More and more people are questioning vaccines- the commercial wasn't for vaccinations. More and more people are using organic products- the commerical most definitely wasn't for organic products. But it is nonetheless a commercial, and I still like their lavendar lotion- I use it on myself! Untill I find a lotion recipe to make my own lavendar lotion that leaves my skin feeling comparabe, I will probably continue to use J&J lavendar lotion. I have bought all of ONE bottle since my ds was born almost 3 years ago. Please don't hurt me! :

Seriously though, it is just a commercial! I agree with most of the postings on here, it definitely doesn't help AP make a name for itself, but I can understand the "opposing" point of view as well- hypothetically speaking, if this were a real family, we don't know anything about them and therefore should not be judging since we get judged so often for NOT being mainstream.

When you know better, you do better.

[tayndrewsmama]

Gee, I am pretty sure the OP said this was a magazine ad, not a commercial. :LOL Sounds like some people have all gotten their undies in quite the bundie about this. This thread was started in this forum 'cause the OP'er knew that she might offend some in another forum, sooooooo what's big deal? If you don't like it, then go to a different forum. Unless.......you are the family in the ad. Are you?

Originally Posted by Messac888

The ad is meant to promote their products to the mass majority of people, which are typically mainstream parents, not AP parents.

This is probably very true. I wouldn't touch that junk with a 10 foot pole. Have you seen the ingredients in their products?!!

[Vicitoria]

To be honest, I think it's an interesting discussion. I know I may not sound that way but a little debate is good every now and then. Do you ever just want to take an opposing viewpoint just to walk in another person's shoes? Or even a different one for that matter.

One more point. According to the UA we aren't allowed to:

Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.

But does that mean it's not OK to do this toward AP points of view and OK to do it towards mainstream points of view just because it's an AP site? I would think that if we wanted to turn the world towards AP we would talk about everything that's good about it.

[boston]

Originally Posted by Vicitoria

I would think that if we wanted to turn the world towards AP we would talk about everything that's good about it.

omg HOW MANY TIMES have I said this same thing?!
lol.

[Dolphin]

Originally Posted by boston

...but here's the thing. If I had a potion that helped my baby sleep so I could get it on with my hot husband -- I would be all over that shiznit....

: that line really made me laugh...thanks

[nannymom]

Originally Posted by Vicitoria

To be honest, I think it's an interesting discussion. I know I may not sound that way but a little debate is good every now and then. Do you ever just want to take an opposing viewpoint just to walk in another person's shoes? Or even a different one for that matter.

One more point. According to the UA we aren't allowed to:

Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.

But does that mean it's not OK to do this toward AP points of view and OK to do it towards mainstream points of view just because it's an AP site? I would think that if we wanted to turn the world towards AP we would talk about everything that's good about it.

I can't beleive you think this is what's happening! It seems like you just want to get mad about this. I feel harassed at MDC b/c it seems like if you have a strong oppinion you'll be accused of harassing people.

[mommykof5]

I love the line "Riding the baloney pony" and "shitz nitz". I thought only my husband talked that way ! :LOL

Now heres my take on the whole AP issue. I am an AP parent. We have 5 children. APing means doing what is right for your childs temperment. To have your child happy healthy and secure; in mind, body, and spirt. Some of the children we have slept with (and yes you can "get it on" with the baby in bed) and some we didn't. Some I have breastfed and some I didn't. (last child is on a bottle cause I had retained placenta and did not make milk and his frenulum goes all the way back to the underside of his gum so his top lip will not make a suction)We wear our babies as well as use a stroller.
I laugh when some people say your not aping cause you give your baby a bottle or he sleeps in a crib. It's like saying today your not a woman cause you wear jeans. DUH...

However I think that parenting is very hard work. We all make choice in this life where we try to do the best we can with what we have. Instead of downgrading someone educate them. You never know you just might learn something yourself. We all are aldults here. Let's all vent, laugh, cry, and continue to receive support here because in today's society there really is not alot of support for parents who truly care about their child's well being. I hold my self up to a high standerd so that by my example perhaps someone will say "wow if you can do so can I. " Perhaps it might be co sleeping, or nursing, or homeschooling, or just getting down to my child's level and really trully listing to them. That's what I think AP is really about. That is defenitly what love is about. Trully honestly listing to someone and doing your best to take care of them.

[UUMom]

Holy crap, Boston :LOL No kidding!

I can't think of how many times dh and I have worked like sled *dogs* to get some kid or another to sleep so we could have hot monkey sex.

We didn't have a crib, but we did have a little pac & play and moses basket.

It's not right having hot monkey sex with a kid beside you. :LOL

OK, it may be 'right', but you can't do the really satisfying vocalizations.

J & J has never crossed my hip -and oh-so-organic door. : But, if this crap, plus a crib, gave me 30 or 40 minutes of sleeping babe when was needing a sleeping babe , I'd buy it.

But I would buy at an indie store...not Wal-mart or Made-in-China BabiesRUs.

Well, maybe for hot monkey sex i might do Walmart or Tar-jaaaay.

YK, I could say that all those sexy chickies modeling their babes in Maya -Or-Whatever-Flavor-of-the- Month-Wraps were lies as well. No Maya wrap in the world will make me look *that* skinny.

Advertising is what it is. It's supposed to make you think you cannot live without a product, will look sexy in said product, will look Way MDC in said product etc., when *of course* you can be cool and save money without the flavor- of -the- month diaper or carrier. It's no different from wanting a Hummer. You want to be 'cool". With the J & J you want to sleep. If a WAHM sold a sleep aid massage oil, we'd also be all over it.

Let's just chillllll.

[tayndrewsmama]

UUmom, you're too funny!

[Carolinamidwife]

Originally Posted by UUMom

I can't think of how many times dh and I have worked like sled *dogs* to get some kid or another to sleep so we could have hot monkey sex.

LMAO!!! Thank you for making a point without being insulting or defensive... and instead big hilarious! :LOL

[Charles Baudelaire]

You forgot to add that some cribbers consider it animal cruelty to kennel their dog.

Originally Posted by boatbaby

The dog argument is my standard retort to mainstream friends who questions why we co-sleep.

I always say - what's wrong with our society when it's never questioned to have your dog or cat in bed with you and your baby down the hall in a cage. But it's always questioned when your babe is in bed with you???!!!


We never owned a crib. I think they are just strange.

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by Vicitoria

Honestly, don't get me wrong, if everyone here is so gung-ho about your AP parenting decisions why do you care about what everyone else in the world thinks? Do what you believe in because you know you can and let everyone else do the same. Everyone does what's right for them.

The problem is this, Vicitoria: people tend to do what they see around them. The cynic around me wants to call them a bunch of thoughtless sheep, but the kinder and more reasonable side acknowledges the human survival instinct to be like the rest of the tribe, KWIM?

Every ad, every image, every label, every piece of information you hear reinforces for you (and me and everyone) our sense of the "norm." We don't want to violate that norm, for the most part, because we know that if we do, we risk social punishment -- critical inlaws, parents, friends, pediatricians, and CPS workers, among others.

As far as cosleeping, we're willing to risk being accused of potentially overlaying and smothering our kids, or (if they're older) having sexual tastes that would put Michael Jackson to shame.

That's why we care about "what everyone else in the world thinks": because we are not living in our own private Idaho without regard to the opinions, tastes, beliefs, and laws of the rest of humanity. To quote John Donne, no man is an island.

The more people out there who know that there really ARE alternatives to sleeping in a crib, the more people who understand there are reasons (and good ones) to eschew what everyone else thinks is right, the more people we'll have thinking for themselves and making choices deliberately, not doing something because "everyone else does it."

Does that explain why we care?

[Charles Baudelaire]

:

[Charles Baudelaire]

Originally Posted by Vicitoria

One more point. According to the UA we aren't allowed to:

Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.

But does that mean it's not OK to do this toward AP points of view

I interpret the UA in this context as giving us complete freedom to bash to matchsticks non-AP points of view, actually, given that it is talking about refraining from harmful speech towards or about a PERSON.

[Plummeting]

Vicitoria, I was just thinking, that you posted the UA quote which says we are not to "bait" or be "adversarial", but you are the one who keeps openly saying you're trying to start a debate or take the opposing side, just to see what happens. That is baiting, if you ask me. Just a thought. Not that I don't enjoy a nice debate, but purposely starting one just for the sake of seeing how everyone reacts is definitely baiting them. If I'm wrong, someone correct me.

And by the way, I totally understand what the OP is saying. For crying out loud, all she's saying is how she's sick and tired of mainstream advertising basically saying it's okay for the dog to sleep in the damn bed as long as the baby doesn't. And that's *exactly* what it IS saying. The parents aren't getting it on - they're sleeping. And there is no "what if the baby sleeps better on his own" scenario playing out here. The people aren't real. The baby doesn't sleep better in the crib that isn't at his own house with strangers in the next room. The commercial is clearly promoting the cultural norm - babies in another room while dog sleeps with mom and dad, regardless of whether baby might actually sleep better with mom and dad. Starting an argument about some hypothetical situation that isn't even happening is absurd. (And it's what I'd consider baiting.) JMHO, don't take it personally.

[UUMom]

Well, people, imo, commercials do *not* represent reality in any way.

Commercials represent what advertisers think appeals to us.

Bieng thin, living in a nice house, having dough to toss around, having a car the ladies like :LOL and freaking sleeping through the night when we have tiny babes.

If anyone thinks advertisers are trying to sell us what we already have, I have a boat load of crap in my garage that's worth millions. And it's all yours-- all you have to do is show up with your truck. Uh, i mean Hummer/really cool SUV and sexy partner (who will be male, not be wearing a shirt, & with a well -defined 6 pack). And no, he can't have been a recent client of Hair Club for Men.

There are only about a million reasons to shut off the TV, and advertising is but one of them.

If advertising makes you crazy...well, yk...shut it off.

[boston]

Originally Posted by UUMom

Well, people, imo, commercials do *not* represent reality in any way...

Commercials represent what advertisers think appeals to us...
If advertising makes you crazy...well, yk...shut it off.

[chicagodawn]

not sure where I fit in

I hesitated to post here, because it started to get pretty heated, and some of the "non-AP" things we've had to do due to my son's illness still make me sad....

I don't care at all about the ad, it is annoying, but so are a lot of other ads. Anyone else hate the Lexus ads around Christmas? Who the he!$ gives a LEXUS as a gift? Gosh I despise those ads and those perky people.

But...this did turn to some extent into a discussion of AP practices, and those who don't practice them (I'd expect that, it is a AP Board!).

I'm quite sensitive to being "judged" for our non-AP practices - I am on this board because we do follow many AP practices, I found it in particular because it is anti-CIO, and has lots of great info on slings.

My son ended up formula fed, and in his own bed. He had severe Reflux and MSPI. We initially thought he couldn't digest dairy or soy (which was coming through in my breast milk). While dairy and soy (oh, and wheat) were eliminated from my system, I had to pump for 2 weeks and feed him a prescription formula. Well, trying to take care of an infant in agonizing pain, choking constantly on vomit through his nose, and pump enough to keep up my supply became too much once my husband returned to work. I only made it for a month. Once we decided to hire a nanny to take care of Ben so I could pump (also had serious latch issues that we hadn't resolved yet, he was in so much pain), I made the agonizing decision to do formula only. I thought it was worse to spend more time pumping (trying to get supply up) then holding my little guy.

As it turns out, this was the right decision, eliminating dairy, soy, wheat would not have been enough, now that he is on solids we've identified many more allergies, it would have taken months to identify. My heart still breaks, I never thought I would be a bottle-feeder. I know it was right for Ben, but it still drives me nuts when people make assumptions about my parenting style when they see me with a bottle.

About sleeping - we moved Ben to his own room at about 3 weeks of age, when we started a breathing monitor, the crib was severely angled, and we used 3 different products to keep him angled without moving to the side or sliding down. Many nights we debating bringing him in bed, but were so scared to be without the breathing monitor (it would have picked up our breathing if in our bed).

About Babycenter...their Reflux board was incredibly helpful to me, as is their food allergies board. a lot of big-hearted, helpful people. Now, my "birth month" board is AWFUl, so much CIO, I can't stand to read it any more - used to post messages discouraging CIO, now I've just given up, I hate visiting that board.

Anyway, that is my two cents...I rarely post because I sort of don't fit in anywhere. That said, after 8 long months, much fighting with doctors and much research on our part, we found the right combination of drugs, and my son is a happy, pain-free baby. The sling saved my life I think, he practically lived in there the first four months of his life.

So, let's please not judge, you never know WHY people have chosen their particular path. Ben is healthy now, is outgrowing reflux (we think, the medicine helps a ton), and hopefully will outgrow MSPI in a few years. Our choices were the right ones for Ben, even though they weren't what we originally intended. I probably used to judge those who I saw bottle feeding, so maybe this serves me right....

(oh, and we don't use J&J)

Dawn
Ben 6-15-04 (mommy, my tummy doesn't hurt anymore!) boy: :