They don't listen and it gets me so angry!

[mellie-bellie]

Oh mamas, I hope some of you have some advice because I am at my wits end. I've had a crappy last 3 weeks and it's all got to do with my kiddos. I am so angry and yet so sad too...why is being a mama so hard?

Here's what's going on:

~ My 4.5yo and 2.5yo don't listen when I ask them to do things. It's constantly being met with a, "No mama!" Now I respect that they have an opinion, and often times I do give them choices about things, but goodness gracious, everything I ask/tell them to do, it's "no!". I try to really limit my use of "no", but sometimes it's a safety issue or a rule and so I can't bend. I don't know what to do. I try to talk nicely to them, in a calm way, but having to say things over and over can really wear me out, and then I get really upset. Even when I yell (which I try so hard not to do), they don't listen. It's like I can't win. How do I make them listen? How do I NOT let this behavior get the best of me?

~My 4.5yo is constantly back-talking and being very rude to dh. I grew up in a household where I'd definitely be spanked if I back-talked to my parents. It makes my blood boil when he does it. What can I do about this back-talking thing? Ds is just so rude sometimes, and I have family me lookin' at me like, "you let your kid talk to you like that?!" I feel like he's walking all over us and that he won't change cuz he's got no reason too. How do I get him to change his behavior without instilling fear in him (i.e. punishment, etc.)?

Gentle Discipline is something I knew I'd do when I had kids cuz I didn't want my kids having to go thru what I did as a kid. I sometimes feel like I'm lacking the skills to follow through with it at times. Can someone give me a refresher course here...what on earth could make a kid want to listen and behave if there is no punishment (non-physical) involved? I'm trying to unlearn the parenting I received, and also learn new ways to parent my own kids, and it's sometimes hard to do at the same time. It's these behavior problems that has me depressed lately. I feel like my kids walk all over me and that they are out of control. My goal is not to be a controlling mama, but on the other hand, I don't want them to control things either. Where does the balance lie? I don't want to be this soggy, unhappy mama, but it has a lot to do with feeling helpless with these kids. Help!!!!

[allgirls]

my friend said that things got better for her when she changed her expectations to cooperation rather than compliance.

Help me put your shoes on worked much better than "please put your shoes on" for example. While it is frustrating because you would expect the older one especially to be able to understand it(and he probably does) is just not human nature to do something just because they are told to do it. Even if it's their mommy doing the telling and they understand it needs to be done. They have their own agenda.

Let's go clean your room works better than "clean your room" and then of course they get to do nothing else until the room is clean. PLay music and make it fun.

I find it difficult to do things because of my upbringing(my mother was a "you will never amount to anything" type shaming mother) but luckily my father was gentle, patient sweet man so I do have a model. That definitely can make you doubt what you are doing is right or working but it probably is.

I rarely use "no" and my daughter uses it all the time...I kind of just ignore it and try not to take it too personally...she is just practicing her power. How about this as an example how our perspective colours things.

My daughter(22months) says "no" all the time...we say she's independant and finding her power and we work around the no(or lately the "no way")we stay calm and patient and explain why "it's a yes thing"

My cousins son(20 months) says "no" all the time...he(his dad) says he's "bad and doesn't listen and they don't know what to do with him and they spank his hands and put him in his crib as punishment

Just an example of how the parent's perspective can colour how serious the behaviour is.

I understand your frustration but maybe expecting them to do as you say just because you say it is not going to work...in fact I often think that only works when the child is afraid of the parent. The GD child needs more information, a better reason to do something than "because I said so" and this is good for them in the long run because that is how you want them to be...at least it's how I want my children to be.

Good luck mama!

[sunnmama]

My 4 yo can also be very rude, bossy, etc. This is immeasurably annoying, but normal, I think. A rude 4 yo does *not* nec predict a rude 8 yo, kwim?

I label rudeness, and rephrase for her (if she says "Get away from me!" I say "mommy, can I have some space please?"). Often (usually) she will repeat my rephrasing, as she did not even realize she was being rude. Sometimes, when she is in a mood, she will remain rude and bossy, but I think that she is still learning what is appropriate from my rephrasing--I don't force her to repeat me.

As for saying "NO!"--this is the time for playful parenting!! Make an offer they can't refuse What is it you want them to do? Instead of asking or telling--challenge them, dare them, forbid them in an obviously playful way, race them--and watch that NO! turn into an enthusiastic YES I CAN! YES I WILL!!!

[gaialice]

Yeah, I'm all for Playful parenting too. Like you could say: "Hey, if you say no one more time, I will eat you!!" and chase him around. This will change his mood, your mood, and everybody will be better after some hide and seek. I had incredible success with the Playful Parenting approach to name-calling. The idea is that whenever they call you "stupid" you should say: "Shhh... that is my secret name... don't tell anyone... but actually.... you know what my REAL secret name is? It is Uagadama (or whatever else)." I always get everyone laughing with this silly joke and I tell you since I stopped saying "Stop the name calling" and turned it in a game, the namecalling has been reduced to a trickle. I think my four year old is indeed testing as Alfie Kohn puts it so nicely in his book on "Unconditional Parenting" the limits of my unconditional love for her. And all too often, she finds these limits exist. Unfortunately for her. And me. So, all and all, do not engage in any battle of wills, this spoils everything and play play play things out.

[~*max*~]

:

Just want to add that I am w/ya on this one mama! Is it a spring thing? I swear, I noticed that since the weather got nicer all of my kids have been so much more oppositional! It is driving me nuts. I love the suggestions so far & will definately try them. It is hard for me to switch gears from busy mama, now aggravated bc kids won't follow directions to playful/creative/lighthearted mama. But I will make a concerted effort to try.

[Earth Angel]

We are having back talking and name calling here too...with..suprise...a 4 1/2 yr old......Why do the 2s get such a bad rap?????
I love these suggestions..although I'm with you Max...I really need to try and switch gears....and sooner...before I get all hot and bothered!!!!
Thanks for the ideas....and that book by Alfie Kohn...I've seen it mentioned here before....is it really that great? I'm always looking for books so I'd love to know if it is worth getting......

[gaialice]

Originally Posted by Earth Angel

the book by Alfie Kohn...I've seen it mentioned here before....is it really that great? I'm always looking for books so I'd love to know if it is worth getting......

It really is worth it. It is a fantastic book. Someone on this forum said it is more than a book on parenting. It is a book on life! ITA!!!

[lilyka]

First you need to define your expectation both to yourself and your children. You and dh need to sit down and decide what is acceptable behavior and what is not and what consequences should be when these expectations aren't met. It also really helped me to identify why I had cetain expectations. What end did they server. Am I instilling good character traits? Am i trying to make life easier for us to function as a family? Whatever your goal is, having it in mind helps you focus on what you are doing intead of what they are doing wrong.

Your children are listening to you. They hear you loud and clear and thier answer is no. What is it that you want from them? Do you want them to cooperate/obey (I am not sure there is really a difference. in the end do you ant them to do what you tell them without a production ) and if so how are you going to react when they don't. I don't care what you do one way or the other but I found it very helpful for to just decide what it was I wanted and tel the kids that this is what i expect from now on.

next I just had to accept that it was my job, my only job, to help them meet these expectations. If they said no when I had told them to do something I would instantly be there to help them follow through.

You an talk them about yuor expectations, frustration about unmet expecataitions and invoke consequences without losing your cool or getting emotionaly involved. Just remember that teaching is hard and you may have to teach the lesson 500 times but each time will bring you closer to the goal.

[lilyka]

And for the record, 2 has got nothing on 4. Four years made me recopnsider my family planning choices :LOL

[mamaduck]

I agree with the poster who suggested that announcing what is going to happen next works better than giving orders or asking favors. How do you say no when mom says, "Now we're ready to start cleaning up!"

I also think its important to move your body to both follow through on requests and to ensure cooperation. At these ages -- its still appropriate to stand up, walk over to your child and gently steer them toward what you have asked of them. It just doesn't work to ask something and expect it to happen. You have to be involved in making it happen.

Limit your directions to those you can follow through with. Make cooperation a habit for them. If they have too many opportunities to ignore you -- it becomes a habit. So think about what you about to tell them and make sure you can follow through, and then make it happen.

As far as the back-talk -- we've had good succes in pointing out the offending tone or words *very* specifically. I don't think they know what they are doing until you mirror it back and point it out. And then suggest (or ask them to suggest) a more appropriate way to express the same feelings. And then have them rephrase. Its important to follow through with having them say it differently/better. Again -- it helps to reinforce the habit of nicer language. Don't respond to their demands or address the problems they want addressed until they rephrase. Give them the words if you have to.

In my house -- you will often hear me and DH saying, "I'm sorry -- but I just don't respond to that tone of voice. Or those words. Try again please."

[Autumnschild]

Great, we're about to get started on the threes...I thought two was bad. Dd is a spirited child, to say the least. I was blessed with her because I have a nearly endless supply of patience to deal with her constant challenging. Our newest thing has been spitting. Not like spitting saliva, just sticking out her tounge and making that noise at me EVERY time I ask her to do anything or stop doing anything. Drives me nuts! I know if I could just ignore the behavior for a few days it would go away, but she likes getting a rise out of me and the spitting thing has been getting that. For about three weeks now. :

I have the same problem you do with trying to find the balance in a GD relationship with my children, since I was raised with "spare the rod, spoil the child" type parents. I automatically think "disrespect!" and am trying to untrain my mind because I have been conditioned by my upbringing to respond certain ways, although I don't necessarily believe in them. Its a learning process that will hopefully make me a better person as well as benefit my children.

With mine, playful parenting is the way to go. It diffuses most situations and diverts negative behavior to positive. But mine are young (10 months and three years) and I don't know about playful parenting with older children.

[GeezerMom]

Mine are young enough that it's not really an issue yet - we've just started really introducing "No". I did so much babyproofing that there aren't any temptations, so I introduced one for practice.

However, I have a really excellent memory. I remember being 4 years old and being told to go clean my room. Mom would put me in there & shut the door. And I had no idea what to do. I'd get overwhelmed and anxious when confronted with the mess, so I'd just cry, and then get into trouble for not obeying. No idea whether I was a brat about it, but it was frustrating for everyone involved.

It's left me with the impression that kids who don't obey might not know how to do things. I can also remember getting into trouble for having a smart mouth, but being totally unable to remember what I'd said. Drawing a complete blank. And being unable to connect the punishment with the behavior.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by allgirls

...in fact I often think that only works when the child is afraid of the parent.

I think this was a really good point. You say it makes your blood boil when you hear backtalk, but aren't you glad that your son isn't too afraid of you to sass you, like you were of your parents? I think that it's true, you can't have it both ways. And honestly, I don't think most parents who spank really do have kids that are all that good. My nephew has been getting "bare-bottomed spankings" since he was two (he's almost 4), and he's an awful little brat. I know parents who are very consistent "disciplinarians" and their children DO behave, and DON'T backtalk, but only because they "respect" them like you might respect a cop and are afraid of them. I know you know all this, that's why you're a GDer, but sometimes a reminder can help.

[MacKinnon]

I watch a 2.5 & 4 yr. old and we are having "no" struggles lately. On top of those two, I have their 6 mon. old bro. and my 15 mo. old DD. We havd done many of the things suggested by the pp. I try to start with something- like a choice- that isn't structured for a "no" answer. If they say no, I will usually just ignore the no and repeat my original question. If that doesn't work I will try with a "you said no. I asked if you wanted to do X or Y. No is not a choice!" If that doesnt' work I *try* to be silly like saying "no, no, no, nonononononono" in a silly voice, big voice, little voice- playful parenting. And then act all exhausted and say something like "whew, that was a lot of no's. Are we doing X or Y? Do you want to choose or do you want me to?" W/ a two year old and a four year old in the house- I will second (third) the vote that 4 is tougher! But then I use to teach preschool- just imagine 20 of them telling you no! Good luck mama. I know how frustrating it is.

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

How do you say no when mom says, "Now we're ready to start cleaning up!"

Very easily. How about "No we're not." Or, "No, I don't want to."

My daughter is very bright and she knows what she does and doesn't want to do. She's very verbal and has the longest memory in the world. Parenting tricks and strategies rarely work on her because she sees right through them. The shift from expecting compliance to expecting cooperation is what worked for us.

I, too, have days where I feel like the kids could give a d*mn less what I ask them to do. It drives me nuts. It's horrendously frustrating. It's normal. All I can say is try assisting them with everything you ask them to do instead of just asking/telling them to do it. It won't always work. But it might make things better.

Namaste!