Dad who spanks

[hippiemom2]

OK, I am not a dad but I have a concern about my husband. Well, the simple version is that he believes in spanking and I do not. I do not spank our children and he does. He feels he has the right to do this even though I feel it is wrong and ultimately damaging to the children. Any ideas on trying to make a stubborn man see the light? Any good books out there about gentle discipline for dads?

Shelbi

P.S. He really is a good dad and doesn't spank very often. But, I wish he would have a clearer understanding of what his actions do to the children. The odd thing is he was never spanked as a child but I was.

[simonee]

That's a tough one. Do you know why he believes in it?
Does he wish he'd been spanked as a kid : ?

Try reading some of the long threads in the Gentle Discipline forum here, and/or print them out and show them to your dh. There's a few good books that are mentioned again and again there, maybe find some in a library? Dr. Sears' Discipline book is an excellent starter.

I think you have a right to tell your dh not to spank. It IS physical abuse after all ~ hitting always is. He has to learn that he can't hit a child any more than he'd hit someone else. Hitting is very arguably ALWAYS psychologically detrimental, and he has to learn to see that you view it that way.

Good luck.

[cumulus]

Hi:

You say he doesn't spank often. Is there a particular set of things the kid(s) do whereupon he spanks them? If so perhaps your argument/discussion need not be against spanking per se as a punishment (a big complicated discussion) but an argument for other forms of punishment or maybe even better yet ways the both of you might address what the kids are doing proactively. The dialog need not be about spanking but about the child with neither parent lining up on one side of the spanking debate.

If he spanks when he's mad, then, when he's in a receptive place, you might suggest that he's choosing a couse of action based on his emotional status not on the basis of what action best fits the child - again not beginning the spanking or not debate but talking about the child and decisions.

And if he feels he should spank when the kids do certain things, and the kids repeat the action sometime later, is his choice of action working? Does it work? Obviously, don't go there if the spanking does seem to work, from his standpoint, in terms of stopping the behavior.

[aredee]

Hi. I'd love to be able to convince your husband not to hit. But I probably won't be too much help here.
This is a hot topic for me. I believe that the amount of violence used towards children is directly related to how enlightened a person is. Sounds like your husband is not enlightened. Therefore books/articles may be the best for him.
Does your husband realize that when he spanks your child he is committing assault and battery? Can I come over and hit your husband and justify it as an eye for an eye? (And then I will justify it in some twisted way, which will sound an awful lot like like his rationale.) How cowardly of him to resort to physical violence to cope with a child's will. There are many alternatives.
Have you heard of "One, two, three, magic"? It's a system of discipline for children. We use it and it has been very effective. Check it out and if you do try it, follow it to the letter for best results.

father of boy

[marymom]

could you tell me more about 1,2,3 majic?

[merpk]

hippiemom2, we have had several threads on this topic on the Gentle Discipline board ... do a search there? Don't know exactly what words to use in the search though ...

- Amy

[browneyedsol]

www.neverhitachild.org

[hippiemom2]

Well, the latest in our family adventure in parenting is a very positive one. We attended a class on 123 Magic and the spanking is no longer an issue. When I first attended the class, I was highly skeptical of it. I thought it seemed to simple. Now, I have seen some family harmony come back into our lives. Thank you all for your posts.

Shelbi

[browneyedsol]

Is there a link to 123 magic? Curious! Glad it has helped your family.

[hippiemom2]

I don't know I haven't searched for it on the web yet. I went to a class that was offered for free here in town. It was broken up into two parts Stop and Start Behaviors. It was very helpful and it is rather simple. The biggest thing is no mini-lecturers and sticking to your guns. If you find a link let me know.

Shelbi

[zevulon]

Browneyedgirl--Thanks for the neverhitachild link, there was a link on that page to the sound of a spanking--quite horrorifying.

[browneyedsol]

You are welcome. I got that link from another MDC user some time ago. I think I will skip the sound, though... It is close to home, as my ex was given permission by our custody evaluator to hit our son. TRUE.

[gurumama]

can you change custody evaluators? geez...that's awful.

let me guess--is this custody evaluator also the type who claims that extended breastfeeding is "damaging" : ?

good luck and my heart goes out to you and your child,

Mel

[browneyedsol]

Yup, all the above really. I'm an API co-leader and Waldorf teacher...cults, you know. So far, I cannot change.

I was shocked to learn that my ex's abuse of our child is called a 'parenting style'. Hair pulling is also accepted in that 'style' of parenting. I could go into it...and maybe I will...but it probably deserves it's own thread. Surely, it deserves more energy than I have presently.

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

[Pigpen]

browneyedgirl...if and when you feel like getting into this, I'm extremely curious about this parenting style. It gives me chills to think that he's been given the green light (legally!) to abuse a small person. What gives???

[prouddfofscorpio]

i believe

my wife wants to do alternate methods. the whole talking thing. i was spanked as a kid. BUT my parents did it the wrong way i think. when i did something wrong they'd say no!, and follow with a spank. as i got older if i showed ANY rebellion my mom would slap my face. i think that wrong as well.
MY way would be to say"it's not a polite and respectful thing to write on the wall" or " sorry but we have to finish shopping please dont throw a tantrum". BUT they would hear that in 3 warnings. every time after that id go to spankingnot hard, but just enough. wifes way is just to talk. i dont agree with it, but i told her fine. she's home all day with her anyway so i figure she should do what she thinks is right. but when i notice our daughter getting older and catching on that all she gets is a talking to and does it more and more, thats when im doing what i want.
so in conclusion, i think spanking should be done but initially with warnings, and why they got spanked.
kev

[aredee]

To prouddfofscorpio,
You failed to mention why your method works and what the merits are. You'll be hard pressed to find any intelligent human being who will tell you that assault and battery on a young child is a productive avenue to discipline. "Spanking" is a cowardly way to solve your disciplinary problems. There are proven, non-violent methods to achieve your goals. Put down your Budweiser, turn off the TV and get informed.

[prouddfofscorpio]

well then:)

well i dont drink, and we dont have t.v.
i have worked in a middle school, and have seen kids who get sent to the "quiet room" because of they were disruptive, and show no signs of remorse. they never learned to obey teachers, and the teachers gave them plenty of chances. iv'e seen their mom's come in and say "sweetie you should learn to follow directions in class " and blah blah. all the while, the kids are rolling their eyes and saying sure sure mom. one kid even told his mom to shut up. okay, in a situation like that, what would YOU do? say your child did the same to you?
and as far as the spanking thing goes, like i said, i am letting my wife do what she thinks is best UNTIL it doesnt work out and i notice our daughter is taking advantage. if she doesnt , hey thats great!! im hoping i dont have to resort to warnings, and spankings. ive seen SOME kids actually work out fine with time out, but not too many. kids seem to get more and more street smart, and sure i can see them knowing that all they get is a talking to, so they can keep doing it. i DO beleive in warnings, and explanations of what can happen if they do something, and then follow up with a light spanking. In the wild, when a tiger cub gets to the mothers limits, they do a light growl, and followed up with a light swat. not that im saying we should regress in life, thats why im all for the warning and explanation of things FIRST.
PERFECT example of this "alternative". JUST talking to my wife about this, i said when doughter is like 4 or 5, her light chore is to pick up her toys at the end of the day and one of us will say" hey lets both pick them up" while singing a song about picking up toys. now IF things are really hectic, and we just ask her if she could pick them up and tomorrow we'll assist her. there's a possibility she wont pick them up, and things will just accumulate.
now i see this stuff with my wifei purposely dont do ALL the dishes thinking that she'll do them since she's home all day and when she needs a plate, she'd do them. but no she just gets more and more plates and cups until the sink is full. she's taking advantage of the situation, and needs to be put in the closet with no supper and no story. (haha) my sick sense of humor
but seriously, sometimes with childrearing, kids need to know that they have barriers sometimes.
anyway, im sure everyone else is going to oppose me but oh well, everyone SHOULD have freedom of expression
kev
p.s. im SURE my wife bowentherapist is going to reply to this just to show her side

[Alexander]

prouddfofscorpio

I'm very glad you are on the boards. Your post is rather long so I'll neglect to deal with all the issues you introduce, but I'm sure that we'll have time to come back to them in the long run

With respect to the case of the recalcant child blowing off his mother.

Yes a spank may or may not "work" in that case. In other words, punch hard enough and you get "respect" (read fear). In the case that you describe though, there may be (I certainly suspect a multitude) of contributing factors that lead to a child behaving in such a way. And they are not the problems that people commonly associate with rude children in school (underpaid staff, lack of resorses, crappy upbringing, whatever).

I put at near the top, (if not at the top) the fact that the system into which children are put grants little or no respect, nor the ability for children to take responsibility for themselves, (which would thus enable them to gain more freedom). This problem is so endemic in society, particularly in well developed Industrial Age nations, that even the ability to question well trodden (and proven) policy or thinking has been lost.

Now, as we (the mature Industrial Nations) move into the Information Era, a re-awakening of the place each individual must take as a human is slowly being re-discovered. A very large part of this is the recognition of the child as a human with inaliable rights, (something I think many Americans hold dear), and as such, the bad behavior of many children must be seen in the light of their lifetime of curtailment and restrictions.

You yourself point to a good example of this.

i said when doughter is like 4 or 5, her light chore is to pick up her toys at the end of the day and one of us will say" hey lets both pick them up" while singing a song about picking up toys. now IF things are really hectic, and we just ask her if she could pick them up and tomorrow we'll assist her. there's a possibility she wont pick them up, and things will just accumulate.

Who gives her the chore? Do you let her volunteer to do this? I suspect not. I think you have it in mind to "hand down from on high" the petty chores you deem as conveinient for you for her to do. Is that not right? Be that as it may, she is sure not to be able to choose her chores, including none at all.

Would it not be more sensible to ensure that she has her own space that she can mess up all she likes? Then you don't have to threaten her.

a

Edited to ask, how old is your daughter now?

a

[prouddfofscorpio]

well now she's only 6months but i'd want her to take responsibility for her own stuff. i think that by having something as small as picking up your own stuff by the end of the day isn't all that bad. in fact, it'll show her safety as well. we live in a 1 bedroom condo and we're co-sleeping. as she gets older(hopefully we'll be out of here by then)ill be sleeping on the couch. just to let you know its not that big of a place for her to have her own play space.
but i agree with you TOTALLY that it would be gre4at for her to have her own space. just like my wife and i will as well once we can afford a house. my wife could have her own craft place, me my own game space, and kaiya her own demolition room but until then, if she gets older here, we need to learn to pick up stuff.
for safetys sake
thank you for your view
kev