What are we all doing wrong? - Page 5

[APmomma]

Originally Posted by Vicitoria

It's not not MDC isn't supportive. I think it is. Unfortunately it's difficult to find a whole group of people who think exactly like you. I thought I would find that when I came to MCD but I didn't. I never realized how vast AP can be. I think the positive and the negative on this thread can be helpful to the mom who started the thread. APmomma, do what you want. I'm all for free choice. I have nothing negative to say about how your personal choices effect your life. I can share my experiences, thought and opinions and that provides healing for me and possibly other people. By listening to others to the same it all changes for me and I can grow and become a better person and mom. That is a supportive environment. If a mom is having problems with night nursing it can also be supportive to let her know she doesn't have to do it and it's OK. Or, if co-sleeping isn't working, not doing that can be OK too. AP isn't, or shouldn't be a life or death religion.

What you described IS a supportive environment. Listening to others and learning about different opinions and situations definetly has made me a better mother and I have learned a lot. This however is not what I am seeing on this thread. There are broad generalizations and an overall attitude of "my way is better". It's the same kind of crap you read on mainstream boards, just a little tiny bit sugar-coated. Basically, this thread is saying in one way or another that older children nursing are "manipulative" don't have "manners", most come from families with "discipline issues", they have "bad sleep habits". I mean, come on. How are comments like that the kind of comments that anyone can "learn" from. There is a big difference between learning about different AP approaches (including night-weaning, etc. Believe me, I am by no means a "die hard" AP follower. We all make our own modifications. By dd is NOT always soothed by a breast. Far from it. She is disciplined, she has to cry sometimes) and just reading negetive opinions directed toward different AP practices. It's just the overall negetive tone that is disappointing to see.

[orangefoot]

In amongst the tangle of who should and shouldn't do what I don't think anyone has said

'This too will pass'

Some parts of parenting are difficult and some things that little people do are incredibly irritating but now that my eldest is nearly 12 I realise how true those words are. For a while he was doing so many things that were driving me crazy, then those would resolve themselves and another irk would arrive. Over time I have adjusted my expectations and my tolerance of what I now consider to be minor things and am safe in the knowledge that things will change - that is the nature of life.

When I was considering night weaning I read an article (can't remember where) about children still needing/wanting (does it matter which? they are small for such a short time) the same amount of physical nurturing during any 24 hour period regardless of how much time they chose to spend rushing around doing their own thing during the day.

This resonated with me. I was slinging dd as we have not used a pushchair so we were close for long stretches of the day. I was feeding her too but her feeds were getting shorter and more efficient. She was a busy little thing and always off investgating something or playing with her brothers. She still wanted the same amount of closeness so was feeding more in the night to balance her needs.

So I'll say it again 'This too will pass'. You can choose one of 2 roads; hold out til it passes or do something about it. Such is life. I am sorry to say that I have no answers just thoughts on different perspectives and best wishes to you all. Try not to get too 'punchy' as we say here in England.

[darwinphish]

As my DH put it in those early weeks, "it's not cosleeping if noone's sleeping!" :LOL

I tried really hard to "push" cosleeping on my family, but it just didn't work for us. DD sleeps a million times better in her mini cosleeper, which we've set up like a bassinet next to the bed. But this is not to bash cosleeping or say it doesn't work - I'm just saying it didn't work for us!

Every baby is different and has different needs - if I try to put DD down next to me she thrashes and whimpers constantly, waking up every hour or more. In her cosleeper she's like a log and gets a good 7-8 hr stretch. That's just who she is... she's a baby that likes her space - and likes her sleep. I've come to accept that even though it violates what I envisioned as my "ideal" parenting setup.

But so much of the way I would "ideally" parent has gone out the window. Becoming a parent has taught me so much humility and flexibility, and that even the youngest babies have such amazing personalities and preferences. I think the single most important thing you can do is follow your own child's cues, whatever they may be.

This is another thread entirely... but I'm suprised that the debate is always cosleeping vs. CIO. Like there is no inbetween. People talk about the family bed, but never about the family bedROOM as we have. When DD outgrows her cosleeper we'll probably get a crib... which will go in our room with us. We never ever CIO, but we don't cosleep either. I wonder if that is rare, or just somehow not part of the debate?

[orangefoot]

I hear you! The family room can grow and change for a long time.

Our dd sleeps in a fullsize bedside cot which we call the bed extension. She spends longer on her 'side' than she used to and one day when I clear out our room a bit more I might consider moving the cot away from the bed so that I can get out more easily and use the drawers underneath that side of the bed!

Ds2 regularly snuck in with us from his bed in his brother's room until he realised his brother's bed was closer! He didn't sleep alone all night until he was about school age and I have no idea why he did.

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by darwinphish

This is another thread entirely... but I'm suprised that the debate is always cosleeping vs. CIO. Like there is no inbetween. People talk about the family bed, but never about the family bedROOM as we have. When DD outgrows her cosleeper we'll probably get a crib... which will go in our room with us. We never ever CIO, but we don't cosleep either. I wonder if that is rare, or just somehow not part of the debate?

I read somewhere that co-sleeping is just having your baby sleeping in the same room with you or near you, that bed sharing was when the baby actually slept in the bed with you. In this forum, and similar ones, cosleeping is meant in the bed with you. I think a lot of parents "cosleep" meaning in the same room, while some also bed share. My husband doesnt want us to do "bed sharing" to be really specific -- while he doesnt have a problem with this with an infant, he wants Katie to be used to sleeping in a crib and be transitioned there early on. The crib will be in our room, near our bed.
There are these talks that in other cultures that there is co-sleeping but what some miss is that yes, there are some folks sharing a bed, a lot of the time when it is with older children they are just sleeping in the same room not in the same bed with the parents.

[orangefoot]

Please don't lets go down the line of who is *really* co-sleeping and who is not.

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by llyra

As I've been reading this thread, I've been reminded of this article:
http://www.continuum-concept.org/rea...InControl.html
It doesn't deal specifically with co-sleeping or with weaning, but what it does deal with is the consequences of overdoing "child-centered" to the point that a parent become a martyr, and clarifies the difference between "in-arms" parenting, and "child-led" parenting.

To me, it's a very telling point. I do not believe in being "child-centered," and that makes me stand out in this neck of the woods.

Yeah! Come join our discussion (12 pp long and growing) below. You won't stick out there!

[Angierae]

Originally Posted by darwinphish

People talk about the family bed, but never about the family bedROOM as we have. When DD outgrows her cosleeper we'll probably get a crib... which will go in our room with us. We never ever CIO, but we don't cosleep either. I wonder if that is rare, or just somehow not part of the debate?

I don't think it is rare! But I do think it gets looked over. To me one of the main benefits of co-sleeping is having my child right next to me so that I can respond to her. As long as we respond, I don't see why there is a problem about where the baby is laying down while asleep. My first HAD to be touching me to sleep. My second likes to be in the family bed but fusses if I touch her. She would probably do as well in a cosleeper, but there ie so much mattress that we don't really need it. If I held her all night like I did my first and she didn't like it that would be ignorning her need for space. It is silly to assume that every baby who is not in the family bed would prefer to be there. But I admit it is my first reaction. :

For me, part of the problem is the huge amount people I know using CIO. It upsets me so much that I immediately worry when I hear a child has been transitioned to a crib. I feel an irrational need to advocate for that child's right NOT to be forced to CIO. Even when the parents say he/she didn't cry!
I have to step back and realize there is A LOT of in between. Its just those darn CIOers have such loud, pushy voices. And they look at me smugly telling me how well "works" while I sit there with bags under my eyes because I chose to comfort my sick child rather than turn the monitor off and ignore her.

I think the title of this forum is significant. "Nighttime Parenting" is what we are all advocating. I feel like the mainstream CIO view is that parenting ends at 8pm and doesn't start again until 8am. SO my shout-out to everyone here is: YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB! If you are parenting your child at night, GOOD FOR YOU! Let's not let our disgust for the "baby ignorers" cause us to stop supporting each other. There are few enough of us as it is.

[Vicitoria]

Originally Posted by APmomma

What you described IS a supportive environment. Listening to others and learning about different opinions and situations definetly has made me a better mother and I have learned a lot. This however is not what I am seeing on this thread. There are broad generalizations and an overall attitude of "my way is better". It's the same kind of crap you read on mainstream boards, just a little tiny bit sugar-coated. Basically, this thread is saying in one way or another that older children nursing are "manipulative" don't have "manners", most come from families with "discipline issues", they have "bad sleep habits". I mean, come on. How are comments like that the kind of comments that anyone can "learn" from. There is a big difference between learning about different AP approaches (including night-weaning, etc. Believe me, I am by no means a "die hard" AP follower. We all make our own modifications. By dd is NOT always soothed by a breast. Far from it. She is disciplined, she has to cry sometimes) and just reading negetive opinions directed toward different AP practices. It's just the overall negetive tone that is disappointing to see.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I really don't think anybody meant to make broad statements that condemn anybody, anything or any group of people or organizations. There are simply observations made to prove a point. To show that even with the best of intentions, things can go astray. Hindsight is 20/20 and maybe someone else can learn from others past experiences.

If someone posts with an issue I assume they are looking for solutions to their issue not just someone to commisurate how awful things are and we'll all get though misery together. Sometimes warm hugs are what is needed to get through a situation, sometimes a 180 is necessary. We can only solve our own problems ourselves. For example: That particular group of LLL moms, even with their best intentions may have taken the extended breastfeeding on demand issue a little too far. Some of the group may have found it to be a negative situation but because the rest of the group was supporting something negative like it were a positive it never changed. Sometimes misery loves company. People bond in all sorts of ways. Just because something is "AP" or "LLL" doesn't make it right.

Believe me, I thought I would breastfeed for 2 years, not start solids for 6 months and co-sleep until my child walked to his own bed himself. Well, I didn't produce milk, I had a very hungry little boy (who could care less about food now) and he likes sleeping in his own space. I only found these things out through trial and error and searching EVERYWHERE for a solution. Personally, I'm glad things turned out the way they did, I think I'm a better parent for it.

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by Ellien C

Yeah! Come join our discussion (12 pp long and growing) below. You won't stick out there!

O boy, interesting reading for later!!!