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Brooke Shields/PPD on Oprah - Page 4

post #61 of 102
I watched the show, and I personally felt she was being genuine. I admire her for talking about it publicly, because that is just plain tough.
To be honest, I don't blame her for FFing if she did later on, because in her mental state it probably would have been very hard to enjoy BF. Additionally, although I am 100% a supporter of natural birth, if I had a first birth experience like that, I would most likely opt for an elective csection as well.
It's sad that she felt so much pressure to be a perfect mom.
post #62 of 102
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Yes it is relevant... because when you start attacking 'militant BFers' who exactly is that? Everyone has their own definition and that needs to be cleared up. I'm not going to judge a mother who decides to wean earlier than 6 months (out of her own needs). But I do think BF advocacy is important. Some people think BF advocates (and people who nurse for 3 years - like me) are 'militant BFers.' See? That's why my back gets up.
True and I should have explained what my definition of militant is. I am not getting into a debate on this, just explaining my definitions. To me extended bf'ing and people who advocate bf'ing are not militant bf'ing people. To me there is a difference in being an advocate and being militant about it. IMO advocates are those who inform women in a non-judgemental, informative manner and who give support for the woman's choice. A militant bfer is one who judges a person upon seeing a bottle without knowing what's in it, one who jumps down on a person for a choice that is inferior, someone who doesn't like someone based on 1 decision they made, someone who believes there is only 1 choice and those who choose ff'ing(for whatever reason) are inferior mothers, give no support to the mother, they are often rude(and worse) when talking about mothers who do not bf'd, and for some they take the stance that ff'ing is a form of child abuse. IMO these women who we want to bf'd are not going to change their opinions and bf'd if it is being pushed on them. IF this is anyone reading this, sorry this is just my opinion. Everyone has a right to thier own opinion and I'm not judging anyone who is militant by this definition. I just feel that when a new mom(especially first time moms) is going through all the new changes in her life being judged for making a decision that she felt was better for her baby does not deter PPD.

Specifically with the formula commercial, yeah I didn't like it either. I wish there were more bf'ing commercials.

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Also with all of her $ I am sure she had hired help. So sad that even then she was depressed. How mcuh more must a woman be depressed who does not have the options that Brooke had?
I don't recall her saying she hired help. Having money doesn't mean a person hires nannys to care for their children all day long. Some do, some don't. IMO celebs get a very bad rap, I wouldn't doubt it if there comes a time in their life when they're getting more settled and into the married/children life where they just want to be normal. Not many of us have paparazzi in our faces when we were walking out of the hospital.

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In Marie Osmand's PPD book doesn't she discuss weaning from the breast as something that can worsen PPD?
I haven't read her book but my personal experience with PPD and weaning was with my first dd. She was 9months old and nursing 3 times a day for 10minutes. She was losing weight so the decision was made to put her onto whole milk. My dr advised that if i was going to quit cold turkey to keep 1 feeding. I did for 2-3 days and then decided it was easier to just stop. It was the 1 time I should have listened to my dr. I got married 2 weeks later and we decided to start TTC. Within 3weeks of putting her onto whole milk I was in the beginning of a PPD. 6weeks later I was in my dr's office bawling and asking if he was sure that I couldn't be pg even though I had AF. He never told me I had PPD but did tell me that i was going to be okay and that he'd see me in a couple of weeks with a + pregnancy. He was right on both of those. Until he told me that I would be okay I was a mess. Many years ago I was in a clinical depression and I did not recognize that I was in a PPD. It seemed to go away after I found out i was pg, but then I mc'd at 9.5 weeks and it escalated during hormonal times. When I talk to pregnant or new bf'ing moms I tell them to never quit cold turkey. Nobody told me you could get PPD when they were 9months old, I always thought it was something that just happened when they were born.

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I had so many miscarriages that I don't think I ever thought I was actually getting a baby. When ds sped into the world all I could think was, "Really? I have a kid?"
I felt the same way after my miscarraiges. Then with Asha I had an US at 11weeks and we saw the baby and I thought "omg what i have done". I had been so focused on getting pregnant that actually having a baby never occurred to me.

If Paxil is safe, it doesn't mean she was told that it was.

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I didn't see the Oprah show or read Brooke's book. I'm just saying she was out and about a lot when her baby was very young talking about how great it all was. Now she says she was barely functional. That seems a bit contradictory to me and this is someone who has been in the spotlight (and in my opinion was exploited as a child in the spotlight) all her life.
It seems to me that she was saying those things about how great it was because that's what she thought she was supposed to say. All she was told was mothers are not supposed to not love their babies, mothers are not supposed to not want to be around them or want their babies to live somewhere else.
post #63 of 102
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I didn't see the Oprah show or read Brooke's book. I'm just saying she was out and about a lot when her baby was very young talking about how great it all was. Now she says she was barely functional. That seems a bit contradictory to me
I'm not trying to be snarky, but have you dealt with PPD? It's an honest question. I'm really in the throws of PPD. Having a very hard time functioning. But, I do feel the need to keep up the "I love being a mom 100% of the time. I have it all together" attitutde cause all the moms I'm around were trying to have a baby. They all quit work to stay home and are loving it. There is a lot of pressure to be the perfect mom. And I'm a nobody :LOL . I can't even begin to imagine what it is like for a celeb.

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Interesting that I'm judgemental for questioning whether or not she is using a situation to make money but this isn't a judgemental comment? Nice. If it wasn't clear I wasn't asking if it was that bad to imagine doing bad things to your child. I meant being unable to avoid seeing all the bad things that could happen to your baby. Like I was nervous about carrying her over concrete because what if I dropped her and she was terribly injured. I was scared to go down the stairs in our house carrying her for the same reason. I was unable to keep the possibility of horrific accidents out of my mind none of it involved doing harm to my child. Clearly I would think that fantasizing about harming your child would be something to seek help for I guess I assumed that being overworried about things that were unlikely to happen was somewhat normal and that was what I was asking about. But thanks for telling me I'm horrible that's definitely why I came to this forum.
Well, first of all, I never said you are horrible. No need to put words in my mouth. I was merely saying that I was surprised that a mom wouldn't see anything wrong with seeing bad things happen to their baby. Since you didn't see the show, you don't know what Brooke was talking about. It was more then just dropping her. She would see her baby hitting the wall and slumping to the floor. It was very graphic. And if it is a hard and scary thing for her, who are we to downplay that just because she is a celeb?

I am really surprised at the attitudes of some on here. She can't possibly have truly suffered from PPD because she is famous? :
post #64 of 102
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Originally Posted by ~*~MamaJava~*~
I watched the show, and I personally felt she was being genuine. I admire her for talking about it publicly, because that is just plain tough.
To be honest, I don't blame her for FFing if she did later on, because in her mental state it probably would have been very hard to enjoy BF. Additionally, although I am 100% a supporter of natural birth, if I had a first birth experience like that, I would most likely opt for an elective csection as well.
It's sad that she felt so much pressure to be a perfect mom.
I agree and think you would make a wonderful, supportive friend

I did not read the People magazine article, but did catch some of her interview on Oprah. I decided to get the book yesterday and started it last night t 10:00--2 hours later I had to force myself to put it down because I found it very interesting.

The issues about her infertility were interesting to me--because I went through that for years myself trying to have my children. I can no longer have pregnancies and births, but still find her story very compelling. I would recommend the book to anyone. Thankfully I never had PPD.

The main issue is that this was not just "thoughts of hurting the baby" or baby blues she was going through. She was clinically depressed and had to force herself to get out of bed every day. She thought of suicide many times. There was no good days and bad days--they were pretty much all bad. She had no loving bond with her daughter--but that was almost secondary to her depression. So for those of you who think what she went through was "normal"--it was not really normal at all.

She did go through things that I went through that were very hard--so that would be on the spectrum of normal. For example, when she got home from the hospital it was just her and her husband and the baby with no help or family there for the first few weeks. This is typical for most people today--but for her it was incredibly hard. The baby woke every hour and a half to nurse and she felt like she was going mad from sleep deprivation. Every time she fell into an exhausted sleep the baby would be awake and crying an hour later---until she just felt like she could no longer take it.

We had the same experiece with our first two kids--my son actually woke up to nurse every 2 hours (sometimes every hour) for the first year of his life. We never had longer than a three hour stretch of sleep in that time--which was like torture. I know I had friends who breast fed who's babies came home from the hospital and would sleep 6-8 hours at night right from the beginning. I had one friend in particular who has 3 kids like me--all were c-sections for her. She would come home from the hospital and they would be champion sleepers! She would put them down at 8:00 at night and they would not wake up till 7:00 the next morning. I could not do that with my kids until they were 5! I always had fussy sleepers who needed lots of night time care--and that makes mom exhausted.

So anyway--her description of that time sounded normal to me--but I can appreciate that it was very hard for Brooke. She was also an older mom (I think she was 37 when her daughter was born) and admitted she was use to a free and easy life style before that of jetting off anytime to go on vacations with her husband. They would sleep in and go to movies and basically do what they wanted. All of a sudden that was OVER. This is very normal for all of us, but for some women this can be very hard too. The change in life that a baby brings can be like a sledgehammer on your head.

She had to try several different medications before she found Paxil to help her. It does not matter what Kellymom (although that website is a great resource) says about Paxil--it is not one of the meds recommended for breastfeeding. She was so depressed at that point that I think it was appropriate for her to move on to formula. She did not have PP psychosis, but she was teetering on the edge. I think there are times when extenuating circumstances have to be taken into conderation. I spent 5 years of my life breastfeeding and would advocate it to anyone who will listen--but you have to allow people to adjust the scenario to their own life experiences. Think about someone like the woman who drowned her 5 kids in the bathtub--what if she had not homeschooled and gotten more help? This does not mean you are against homeschooling to realize that that poor woman should have not been home with all those kids when she was dealing with severe PPD and PP psychosis. We have to be able to make allowences for people in this life, or we end up with our hard line and a tragedy.

Hugs,
Lisa
post #65 of 102
"I'm just saying she was out and about a lot when her baby was very young talking about how great it all was. Now she says she was barely functional. That seems a bit contradictory to me and this is someone who has been in the spotlight (and in my opinion was exploited as a child in the spotlight) all her life. I can believe her childhood experiences with exposure would make her more likely to expose herself."

She was? Well where did you see this People magazine? Because I've known for a better part of the year that she had postpartum depression because she talked about it on the VIEW and in another interview last spring. I also imagine, like myself, you try to put your best face forward when out in public. I know I did. "Yes breastfeeding is wonderful" "Oh I love being a mother" blah blah blah is how I portrayed it to my friends. I never said "I have irrational fears my baby is going to die, or that I might accidently kill her doing something mundane" or "Today while my baby slept, but I couldn't I thought about taking a whole bottle of pain killers". So nowhere do I see her contradicting herself.
post #66 of 102
[QUOTE=CarrieMa F]

Alot of women suffer from PPD due to these hard core militant bf'ing women who look down on, are rude and judgemental to other people's situation. (QUOTE=CARRIEMA)

The above statement simply isnt true. women suffer from ppd for many factors, combined, and not entirely understood or pinned down, But "hard core militant bfing women "and their judgements is not to blame. Like many many many factors, judgment about anything for the new mom doesnt help when she is already feeling pressure and all kinds of other scary and mixed up thoughts. But to put any real blame on peoples attitudes about personal choices doesnt work. The attitude needing changing is that of society in general to nurture, help, honor and support the new mom in ways that in most cases are unheard of here in the USA.
~L
post #67 of 102
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Originally Posted by Red Fern
Why is it that sometimes mothers judge each other so harshly?
ITA
post #68 of 102
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Originally Posted by CarrieMF
FF'ing vs BF'ing has no spot in this discussion. Once she got help she made a choice that was best for her and her child. It may not be the idea choice or the choice that another would make but it is still her choice to make. .
Just wanted to agree here! I am a strong supporter of bfing. However, knowing what I know about cesarean births, as well as the other difficulties faced by Brooke Sheilds - it is really understandable if the bfing did not work out for her!! My god - if even half of what she said is true regarding her feelings at the time, her feelings about the baby, (and I see no reason why it WOULD NOT be true) no WONDER the bfing did not work out.

I went into this show with a chip on my shoulder - oh yea, another celebrity discussing how difficult it was at first with the new baby, the nanny, the job, etc. - it was NOTHING LIKE THAT! I appreciate her honesty. She is a famous celebrity, but she is also a woman just like those of us here. I hardly think if one of our best friends had this same feeling or reaction after giving birth, we would be half as judgmental!!!

Just my 2 cents worth...
post #69 of 102
"She said that she wasn't over come by instant love for her baby at birth. She also said she thinks people lie about it (and there was laughter and applause in the audience.)"

That's an odd thing to say, given all that was going on in her life and with her birth, you'd think she'd consider that that might have something to do with her PPD instead of just assuming that others lie about it.

As far as her not bonding with her baby... it's such a common and poorly understood thing, and I wish some high-profile celebrity would write about probably the most common reason this happens -- because the hormonal process that facilitates the chemical part of bonding is so interfered with in modern maternity care.
post #70 of 102
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Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds
That's an odd thing to say, given all that was going on in her life and with her birth, you'd think she'd consider that that might have something to do with her PPD instead of just assuming that others lie about it.

As far as her not bonding with her baby... it's such a common and poorly understood thing, and I wish some high-profile celebrity would write about probably the most common reason this happens -- because the hormonal process that facilitates the chemical part of bonding is so interfered with in modern maternity care.
Just my 2 cents... I did *not* suffer from PPD and had a completely natural pregnancy/birth but was disappointed that I didn't feel this instant connection to my child after birth (as I said in my earlier post). And I do think setting *everyone* up to feel an instant connection leads to disappointment for *some*. I'm sure some women feel that instant connection but not all of us...

I'm sure it could be made worse by hormonal interference or PPD but I wouldn't say I think that is the only reason it happens.
post #71 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds
As far as her not bonding with her baby... it's such a common and poorly understood thing, and I wish some high-profile celebrity would write about probably the most common reason this happens -- because the hormonal process that facilitates the chemical part of bonding is so interfered with in modern maternity care.
This is what kind of made me sad about her plan for the future at the end of the show (although I'm happy that she is hopeful and wanting another child) ...

Her plan is to have a repeat c-section and go on meds starting in the 3rd trimester to "regulate (her) hormones" that are compatible with bf'ing.

Just more modern medical intervention

But then again, maybe that is why the media is accepting of her. It probably wouldn't be the same if she came out and said that medical intervention helped cause this.

Someone else mentioned Cyotec... that would be interesting if she was given this for induction, anyone know who is reading the book?
post #72 of 102
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And I do think setting *everyone* up to feel an instant connection leads to disappointment for *some*. I'm sure some women feel that instant connection but not all of us...
Yes...ITA!
post #73 of 102
I have a new respect for Brooke. I think her coming out like she has is a HUGE step and healing process for her. She should be commended on that and not put down or attacked because she FF her dd. The fact that she had PPD so bad she didnt want the baby in the same house as her, wouldnt change her diapers, answer her cries. Proves that she was in no shape to breastfeed her dd. A huge part of Breastfeeding for us moms and for the babies is the bonding. She was disconnected with her dd. She wanted nothing to do with her. HOW could she do the one thing that is total bonding for her and baby when she cant even look at her, smell her, hold her. Yes its sad she couldnt or didnt breastfeed. BUT whats even more sad is the time she lost with her dd. The early bonding, the first little special moments. Things she cant get back because time doesnt go back. To me thats far more heartbreaking then weather she breastfed or not.
post #74 of 102
*
post #75 of 102
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Originally Posted by JaneS
This is what kind of made me sad about her plan for the future at the end of the show (although I'm happy that she is hopeful and wanting another child) ...

Her plan is to have a repeat c-section and go on meds starting in the 3rd trimester to "regulate (her) hormones" that are compatible with bf'ing.

Just more modern medical intervention

But then again, maybe that is why the media is accepting of her. It probably wouldn't be the same if she came out and said that medical intervention helped cause this.

Someone else mentioned Cyotec... that would be interesting if she was given this for induction, anyone know who is reading the book?
She was given pitocin. Her water had already broke and she was running fever.
Also, I have to say with my repeat cesarean and meds BEFORE I gave birth in the third trimester HELPED tremendously. I had a wonderful experience, virtually pain free, and I bonded well with my baby. He was a champion breastfeeding boy and I felt really great emotionally and physically after the birth. I could totally relate why she will choose to go this route, because I did it, and was better for it.

Also, please note that its possible medical intervention had nothing to do with this. I had PPD when we adopted. No medical intervention there -- however I did relactate to breastfeed him, whacking out my hormones. I think its easy for people in this community to "blame" medical intervention, but the facts are any woman can suffer with PPD, not just those of us who have "medical" births.
post #76 of 102
I am not singling you out Lisa, just want to offer some general info about lactation:

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Originally Posted by LisainCalifornia
The baby woke every hour and a half to nurse and she felt like she was going mad from sleep deprivation. Every time she fell into an exhausted sleep the baby would be awake and crying an hour later---until she just felt like she could no longer take it.
Actually, this is normal, but so many new moms do not expect it or know how to deal. Crying is a late indicator of hunger in a baby. Or a sign or discomfort. Shields may have not been co-sleeping and getting up and down all night is very tiring. She may not have been able to nap during the day when baby did. She may not have simplified her cooking and cleaning routine, etc.

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We had the same experiece with our first two kids--my son actually woke up to nurse every 2 hours (sometimes every hour) for the first year of his life.
This is normal if latch is good. Some moms store less milk in their breast between feeds, so baby needs to nurse more to get milk. Or baby may have strong sucking needs. All 3 of mine were this way. Waking up every hour is a lot more tiring than every 2 or 3. Sometimes this can be helped by cutting out dairy products which can cause digestive upset in babies/toddlers.

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We never had longer than a three hour stretch of sleep in that time--which was like torture. I know I had friends who breastfed whose babies came home from the hospital and would sleep 6-8 hours at night right from the beginning... She would put them down at 8:00 at night and they would not wake up till 7:00 the next morning.
This is very unusual and not normal and can cause low milk supply, lethargic babies, and failure to thrive. (Obviously it didn't in your friend's case.) As a general safety rule, newborns should never go more than 4 hours at night and should nurse at least every 2-3 hrs during the day.
post #77 of 102
Darylll, this is really important to point out. I haven't slept through the night in over three years between the two little ones. My 14 month old still nurses at least 3 times a night. I am in no way sleep deprived. I work three days a week, never nap and feel pretty great. There were days when I would feel the lack of sleep and needed to adjust my expectations and slow down or nap a bit. This is not PPD. This is being a mom. PPD can be associated with sleep but I agree with you it is more likely the unrealistic expectations that kill you. That and putting your baby in a crib, waiting until they are screaming to get them, and then nursing, putting them back to bed and trying to return to sleep. I believe co-sleeping is the best thing to ensure nursing success and sanity for moms. I just groan and roll over for the other boob as soon as he starts to fuss.
post #78 of 102
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Originally Posted by DaryLLL
Actually, this is normal, but so many new moms do not expect it or know how to deal. Crying is a late indicator of hunger in a baby. Or a sign or discomfort. Shields may have not been co-sleeping and getting up and down all night is very tiring. She may not have been able to nap during the day when baby did. She may not have simplified her cooking and cleaning routine, etc.
We co-slept, napped, ate pre-prepared foods, etc. My house has never been so dirty from neglect. I can still remember feeling absolutely exhausted and nursing while sobbing one night and saying "I can't do this!" over and over and over again at about 3 in the morning. My dh said, "just nurse him and then please get some sleep. I will take him out to the living room and hold him so *please* gets some rest." My dh called in to work the next day and stayed home to care for ds - I think he knew that I was just too exhausted to continue bf'ing if I didn't get more rest. It worked, I'm still bf'ing.

Exhaustion is a powerful force - I did not have ppd but I do know that having a new baby that doesn't sleep well is exhausting no matter how well you prepare for it. I can't imagine having ppd on top of it. After that night I don't judge women who say that nursing was too exhausting and give up. If my dh hadn't been so supportive, I know I would have given up that night. When women tell me that its too tiring or hard, I usually just try to mention that it is at its worse for a very short time and then it gets so much better.

Sometimes I think that *only* presenting the picture of 'mother and child sitting in a rocking chair, peacefully nursing' is harmful to the pro-bf'ing cause. Its hard work and, personally, I had no idea it was hard work. I think when women encounter the hard work or troubles it is tempting to think "this isn't how it is supposed to be!" and give up. When a new mom tells me she's bf'ing, I try to say something like, "Good for you! It's really hard work, isn't it?" A nurse once said this to me and it was such a revelation. I remember thinking, "Yes! Finally someone that understands!"
post #79 of 102
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Originally Posted by joesmom
I wondered if she formula fed because she could not feel enough attachment to her baby to breastfeed her.
I didn't see the show but my friend told me about it. When I think of Shields the 1st thing I think of is that she's a formula spokesperson . . .when my friend told me about her PPD, I wondered what you did, joesmom, if she is grateful to formula because her PPD was so bad she couldn't BF?

I don't know . . .I had to give formula to my newest DD while building my supply up this week (it was that or have a hungry daughter ) and I feel like I'm eating humble pie about having been so down on formula in the past. Now I have experienced that there are truly times where formula is necessary. I'm just lucky that I'm an experienced BF mom and that the problem was caught (barely) in time . . .

Anyway, I give BS all the credit in the world for being so candid. Who knows how many women (and their babies) she helped!
post #80 of 102
I missed the show unfortunately. But it sounds like she made the right decisions for HERSELF and her baby. No, ff is not the same, but its better than many other choices she could have made.

I had ppd pretty badly with my ds. I had a relatively normal birth and he was great at nursing. The fact that I did bf him was the only thing that got me through the hard times. But I was in love with him from the first moment. I can't imagine how hard it must have been for her to not feel that connection with her babe. I was thrilled that my boy nursed what felt like constantly because it was the only time I felt sane.

I had horrible images of things happening to him. I couldn't shower, brush my teeth, anything that would take my eyes off of him for a second- even if my dh was there to watch him. That wasn;t good enough for me. I never had thoughts of hurting him, but I did have lots of thoughts about hurting myself because I felt so incapable of being a good mom. And I wouldn't let anyone help me. It became a running joke that you couldn't actually come into my home or approach my ds at all. This lasted until well after his 2nd birthday- not as severe in some areas, but more severe in others. I would never wish that on anyone.

And I became a militant breastfeeder BECAUSE of its powerful help it gave me. I was extremely judgemental toward other mothers who didn't breastfeed, refusing to even speak to a ff'ing mom. :

But then I got a huge slice of humble pie when we adopted our dd. I had relactated and had all of these wonderful plans of nursing her forever. But she was 7 months old when she came home to us and she wanted nothing to do with my breasts. They scared her! We all scared her. And I didn't know what in the world I was going to do if I couldn;t nurse her. I also went through a ppd with her and thought it was nuts since I didn;t have post pregnancy hormones obviously. It was definately real though. And that on top of having to buy formula, mix bottles, smell that horrible smell of that stuff. I treated it like it was toxic waste- literally screaming if some got on my hands. And having to come to terms with then having to actually hold her and feed her this stuff. I never got used to it, but I definately had more compassion for ff'ing mothers after that. I had to do a lot of soul searching and forgiveness stuff for my past judgements on my fellow sisters. I'm not ever going to be a fan of formula, but now I see that mothers do what they can and feel is best for them and my judgement is absolutely unfair to spew onto them. I didn't do anything positive by passing my beliefs onto a mother who was just doing what was best for her and her babe. Now I mostly keep my mouth shut and reflect back on my own formula nightmares.
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