How do we reach the men?

[Tanibani]

I noticed on my son's friends (white, 5.5 yr old boy) is intact. (Of course, I was in emotional pain for a whole afternoon because it brought back all the guilt and regret.)

I was shocked, because most of the U.S. white kids are circ'd. (If the dad is from another country, chances are higher that he is intact and so are his sons.)

I asked the mom, how did that happen? She told me she left it up to her husband and he used to listen to Dr. Dean Edell on the radio.

Wow.

So many women leave it up to their husbands.

So many men are afraid that women will find the intact penis repulsive and won't want to perform oral sex. My future BIL blurted that reason out. My idiotic sister chimes in the intact penis is ugly and dirty. (Playing right into the hands of her fiance.) What a moron. (His brother is expecting a boy. They'll most likely circ. )

So my question is, how do we reach the men? If THEY really knew what was done to them, wouldn't they all (or most) say no?

[A&A]

Hmmmmm..........my white, American, circ'd dh didn't have any problem at all leaving our son intact, so I'm confused about the race/culture part of your question.

But, for women dealing with dh's who want to circ, here is a good article:

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

[polka123]

Originally Posted by A&A

Hmmmmm..........my white, American, circ'd dh didn't have any problem at all leaving our son intact, [/url]

Same Here

The Medical community is the one that needs the big overhaul.
THey really need to discuss the options with their patients but they don't

Each time I was pg, I was handed a packet of papers (ok to circ included). There was NO literature about the pro of non-circ'ing. THere's big reform needed there.

More media coverage that "It's OK NOT to Circ" unlike the Jenny McCarthy book excerpt.

[Paddington]

i think some of it may be the birth classes though. i took bradley and was handed information on NOT circ'ing. but a lot of women take the classes through the hospitals and i think (not sure, as i didn't go to them) they all lean towards circ'ing. a lot of the information seems to be linked to the birth aspect so if you are not finding out info about birth you may not get updated info about circ.

i had 2 friends give birth this year and both said, whatever the dr says we will do. 1 took a birthing class through the hospital (and was jewish) so they circ'd; the other decided to wing it and just take drugs (birth class too expensive--didn't want to spend the money) and thankfully they had a girl or they would have circ'd too.

anywho to reach the men i think it really has to go through the mamas--there really is no other place the men tend to get info from. i could be wrong though--but my dh only found out about what i found out about--he wasn't doing any extra work....

[Frankly Speaking]

I've been thinking about this thread since I first read it yesterday and have come to some conclusions. You are free to dispute them if you wish.

I think there are three basic types of men and their feelings about circumcision.

(1) Those who early on realize that there is something inherently wrong with circumcision. (that'd be me)

(2) Those who are open to new information and willing to consider the evidence. Some of these may be in varying degrees of denial.

(3) Those who are in complete denial and refuse to accept that what was done to them could have anything but positive results.

We don't have any problem with type 1. Type 2 can be reached with some facts and evidence. I doubt type 3 will ever be reachable. The current downward trend in circumcision will have an effect on all of their ways of thinking.

We can look at England for how we can expect it to go here in The US. Neonatal circumcision essentially ended there 50 years ago. Those in their child bearing years don't even think about it and many don't even know what circumcision is. We will eventually get to that point. However there is varying support for circumcision in the age group that are 50 and older because there are a substantial number of those men who are circumcised. Some of them are still in denial regardless of all of the evidence and the almost total lack of circumcised males in those younger than 40 years old. The older generation's support of male infant circumcision is illustrated in the story of Princess Diana and her son's births. Queen Elizabeth is reported to have been very disturbed that her grandsons were not circumcised. Prince Charles, himself circumcised, supported having his sons circumcised but did not fight for it. As we can see, Prince Charles was influenced by a different set of cultural mores than his mother. Princess Di was a generation younger than Charles and was influenced by her generation and said "Absolutely not!" She is an illustration of her generation.

We will see much the same thing here in North America. As the trend dies out, younger generations will more and more embrace intactness and the older generations will die before they give it up. It's just a matter of work and time.



Frank

[Red Sonja]

Originally Posted by A&A

Hmmmmm..........my white, American, circ'd dh didn't have any problem at all leaving our son intact, so I'm confused about the race/culture part of your question.

My husband is half Korean, but otherwise this statement is true for us too.

I brought up the subject with my 18 yo brother (white, circ'd) last month when I saw him. He told me that he would NEVER do that to his son. Apparently he did some reading on female circumcision and then on male circ and was shocked and angry. So, my first attempt at intactivism was "preaching to the choir," so to speak, but at least I know that all my future nephews will be intact.

OTOH, a friend of mine delivered a son a few weeks ago. When I saw her searching for the Vaseline before a diaper change I almost cried for that poor sweet little boy.

[susienjay]

I think there are so many people that just don't know hardly anything about circ. I was one of those moms who pretty much let dh decide. : My white dh (born and raised in the midwest) decided against it but I'm not really sure why. He didn't do any research on it either. He just said it wasn't necessary and it was painful for the baby and he didn't want to put his son through that.

I think any mention of sexual demage immediately turns most mens minds off. I made a big mistake mentioning that to friend who had circed his son. It got him so defensive and mad that I haven't made that same mistake again. The pain involved doesn't seem to sway men like it does women either. After all they lived through it fine so their son can too.

I'm in Southern Cal and I know it is supposed to have one of the highest intact rates in the country but I still see many circed boys and most of them are white.

I think my dh is a mixture of 1 and 2. He is very level headed and doesn't really get emotional about anything, circ included. I know some men are just so uncomfortable about their son being different but something like that isn't even on my dh's radar. To him if it's not recommended by a reputable medical organization then there is no reason to do it and there's no reason to discuss it further.

[jessjgh1]

Frank,

I might add a 4th category for when you are dealing with religious reasons. It adds a few more issues, especially depending on the specific background. BTW, I see shades of 1,2,3, and 4 in the decision process between dh and I.

Our son is intact but the issue still remains, so maybe my husbands viewpoint will evolve- I hope so.

For example, I'm not sure that he would actively support other Jewish families leaving their son intact. It is just not something he really even brings up- and we have enough going on that I have felt the need to lie low for awhile. Then again, maybe he does 'get it' and just doesn't vocalize this.

I hope to test the waters before his brother has children.

On this topic I think the most effective way would be to change public policy on this issue- so that the medical profession presents a fair choice to parents (or doesn't give them the right to circ at all). However, it is important to figure out a way to reach the men that are more difficult TO reach (the #3's and 4's). Also, a way to support the women who are willing to let the man make the decision.

I always thought that argument was weak because a circumcised man had no experience (in most cases) with an intact penis and vice versa.

I wish I had more ideas on how to QUICKLY change public policy, but I really can't think of much besides writing letters to doctors and health insurance agencies.

This is a good thread (they ALL are), but I like trying to figure out strategies to make this change happen.

Jessica