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An interesting observation re: TV watching - Page 8

post #141 of 173

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I don't believe that Jack Bauer is a real person that I can visit and who perhaps might come to my birthday party.
I want him at MY party! He is my personal hero.

Seriously though...I guess I just don't believe in delaying gratification. There is this assumption that the things we want are things that will harm ourselves or others, and I don't think that applies to me. I don't desire anything that would harm myself or others. Chocolate is not harmful to me, since I never have the desire to plow through a whole pound of it. When I want chocolate I eat as much of it as I want and then stop when I want to stop. My dd just asked for crackers and I don't see the point in saying "Why don't you wait half an hour?" Can't she just have them right now?

But about hiding things from the kids...a lot of parents try this with things like pornography and guns, and the kids always find them. If you think it's harmful for your child it probably should be out of the house. I think kids quickly figure out that different things happen when they are asleep. I used to pretend to be asleep so I could listen to adult conversation.
post #142 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by meco
But I think he (and other young children) has less developed cognitive and decision making abilities than a preteen or teenager. He would readily jump out in front of oncoming traffic or walk out of the grocery store with some strawberries without paying. He has not learned these things yet. He clearly does not have the ability, as a young child, to make all decisions to meet societal norm (paying for something, following pedestrain traffic signals, not stealing, etc.) at all times.
Right, he is young and has not had the experiences you've had (or a teen has had) because he hasn't been around as long. I can agree with that.

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Sometimes is does not matter or affect others--he wants to wear a skirt and no shirt in December, I am all for it (while carrying a coat if he gets cold). But is he wants to play in the middle of the day on Broadway (the very busy street), you better believe I am going to veto that.
Yes, I would surely not be all about my toddler playing in the street so I am right with ya there. The question, from a TCS standpoint I think is, how do we communicate danger and encourage safe decision making while respecting them. TCS, much like anything else, looks different as kids get older/more emtionally and mentally mature. This means that how we deal with the street issue changes from the time the child is age 2, 4 and 9 and so on.

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If my son decides he wants to steal, should I sit back and watch him and if he gets caught, he gets caught? Should I encourage it? Or should I instill in him the principles of karma, the consequences of theft, talk to him about it, offer alternatives to get what he wants, find ways to meet the needs he is exhibiting?
I would do exactly what you said... discussing theft and what that means, why people don't like it, discuss alternatives, and work it out.

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Do you all think they can make sound judgements across the board? I feel perhaps at 6 or 7. Most likely by 10 or 11. But if you think a toddler can make sound judgements, but not across the board, how did you conclude TV was one of those things? And other things were not?
It's so individual with each kid in my experience as to what they understand and when. I'm an adult and sometimes my decisions turn out crappy too, KWIM? I think there are things a toddler doesn't understand of course.

When my kids were that young we followed their lead about TV. If they were frightened, upset, or angry about something on TV we tried to really examine that and act accordingly. If something on TV bothered them we tried to protect them from that until they were more ready for that & could understand it. Dd has long been afraid of vampires, and even cartoon vampires frightened here at age 3. She'd be scared of the "Count" on Sesame Street so we stopped watching it for a time after discussing it with her. Then a few months went by and she asks to watch it again. I remind her that there is a character she did not care for, and then tell her she can watch it whenever she'd like.
post #143 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
And about kids being allowed to do everything the adults in the family do, that is just what works for us....

Maybe someone can think of something else, but right now, the only things I can think of that dd is not allowed to do are things that are illegal for her to do, things that she doesn't want to do in the first place, or things that dh and I don't do. She is not allowed to drive the car (illegal), to drink coffee (she doesn't want to), or drink alcohol (dh and I don't drink).
Do you plan on changing this policy when/if she does decide she wants to drink coffee? Or have sex at 12?
post #144 of 173
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Probably not, because homeschooling (or unschooling) is important to you ...you CHOSE it for your child because of whatever reason (we are planning on that too)...
I don't know about that. My dd wanted to do preschool. Twice. Both times were disasters and she wanted to stop (well, some days she wanted to stop, others she didn't). Both times, despite my having always wanted to unschool, the decision (mutual) to pull her out was complicated and long (too long, IMO). Now she has chosen to stay at home. She doesn't like to be instructed, so she has chosen the unschooling lifestyle. If she ever wants to go back to school (not likely after this last experience), she will be free to try again.

I have only two things left to say: 1) I am loving the TV-free life! BTW the adults are not watching either (anyway there are no DVDs in this town at the moment!) 2) I forgot #2 :
post #145 of 173
I respect caring parents who have different parenting styles than I do, we do what we think is right for our families. It is interesting to me that many parents seem to think that because I let my dc make choices that they don't make available to their dc that I have not considered the consequences or thought deeply into my philosophy. I have done lots of research and spent ages agonizing over issues and have come to a parenting philosophy that works for me and for my dc. I observe them and if changes needed to be made I would make them. My dc are intelligent, well-spoken, creative, avid bookworms, funny, and totally full of life. While I respect that some people find the things that we enjoy harmful I do reject that my dc are somehow "unfortunate" due to my permissiveness. I care for my dc as much as eveyone else and I consider their happiness and well-being just as much as everyone else. There are many paths and they only have to be "best" for the people walking down them.

BTW- I was raised by parents who strictly rationed and censored t.v., diet, music, etc., they were loving parents who were trying to raise me the "best" way. They chose a path that they felt was the right one but were so sure of their "correctness" that they never observed or respected my personhood enough to realize that it was not working for me.
post #146 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy
TCS is about just that, taking your child seriously, not just letting them decide everything and anything on their impulses and whims at any given time.
I think that Taking Child Seriously is poorly named because many of us take our children very seriously but do not follow the tenets of the TCS movement. I limit my kids choices, I tell them no, and I make them do things like chores. For me, that is taking my kids very seriously but it has nothing what so ever to do with the TCS movement, which is about non-coersive parenting. I don't having anything against non-coersive parenting, it just isn't the right thing for my family at this time. (I've read about, attended a seminar, and tried it for awhile).

If you don't want to have a TV, that's great. I discourage my kids from watching excessive amounts of TV and have occassional declared a TV free week when I felt that my kids needed one (they usually self regulate quite well).

The thing I don't understand is why you label yourself TCS. What does the label matter? Why not just parent your child the way that feels right to you without attaching a label?

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The people who claim they let their kids choose WHATEVER they want...okay, has your 4 year old ever seen children going off to school? Are you going to instantly sign them up because they get it in their head that riding the bus might be cool, or they want a cool backpack or something like the other kids...etc (just an arbitrary example)
We've crossed this bridge. My older DD said she wanted to go to school the year before last so I asked her why. We had a long talk. She wanted to spend more time with kids her age doing interesting things. After talking for a while, she decided to try Girls Scouts rather than school. If she really wanted to go to school she could -- I'm not interested in keeping her home against her will.

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as long as you don't come into mine and act as though I am denying my child a fundamental human right because we DON'T watch it, and that I am a complete fraud in my child-rearing philosophies because of it.
I don't care if you don't have a TV. I don't think anyone else on the board does either. I don't understand why you are so attached to the TCS label, though, when their are many decisions that you feel you should make for your child. It is sort of like the label is trendy or something.

I'm not into TCS, but I know it. My kids have tremendous freedom. They have more control over their own lives than any other kids I know IRL who are their ages. But I can drawn a line when I need too -- which is why I know that the TCS label doesn't fit me.
post #147 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by meco
But I think he (and other young children) has less developed cognitive and decision making abilities than a preteen or teenager. .. But I feel at his toddler age he might not be able to consider all the information and weigh the sides. Do you all think they can make sound judgements across the board? I feel perhaps at 6 or 7. Most likely by 10 or 11.
I agree with you. My kids seldom saw TV as toddlers, watched a little as preschoolers, and self-regulate as school aged kids. I think that TV is bad for the developing mind of a very small child.

I think where we part ways is that I see watching some TV as a positive thing for my kids at the ages they are now. Your veiw seems to be that TV is always always a negative. Last week my kids got a video about subs from the library and watched several times. They were fascinated. It was as close to being on a sub as they can get. They learned about the history of subs, life on a sub, etc. Although I could have gotten a book about subs, it wouldn't have allowed them to roam the insides of a sub the same way.

I really think that how old a child is and what they are watching makes a HUGE difference.

TV is just a medium -- like the internet. Agruing about whether it is good or bad seems a bit like debating if the internet is good or bad. It really depends on which sites you go to and how much time you are spending.
post #148 of 173
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Originally Posted by PM
Did I dream that participated in this thread? Something about not having to wean her child because she never got started...
Um, must have dreamed that. I said that on another thread about TV-Turnoff Week. And, seriously, I didn't mean it in a nasty way, just an explanation preparing readers for my less-than-super-helpful post.

As soon as he can sit still for movies and plays, I will be taking my pixie to theaters. He goes to puppet shows already. We've been to one outdoor performance of Rashoman which he really loved (but he made his comments about the actors & their costumes in a normal-volumed voice! Fortunately, the surrounding audience was pretty laid back.) I don't have it in for all the visual media. I really like good films. I just don't like the abuse of the visual media vis-a-vis television.

And I'm lucky to live somewhere with a mountain of cinemas. Some even show the good stuff.


Anyhow, back to the topic. This is an interesting thread. I know next to nothing about TCS. But, I can't imagine it requires television to work. TV has only been in existence since the 1930's. Humans don't need it for their intellecual development. Otherwise, how would we account for Leibnitz, Descartes, Mozart, Confucious, Buddha, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Aristotle, Hypatia, and so on?

I'll be looking into the writing on TCS. Thanks.
post #149 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by srain
Do you plan on changing this policy when/if she does decide she wants to drink coffee? Or have sex at 12?
If she wants to drink coffee, either I can let her try some and hope she won't like it; stop drinking it myself and tell her no; or let her drink it whenever she wants. (Or I can turn into one of the "I get it and you don't" parents.)

If she wants to have sex when she is 12, I have to accept the fact that I have really failed as a parent. Or maybe I can just blame TV!
post #150 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
If she wants to drink coffee, either I can let her try some and hope she won't like it; stop drinking it myself and tell her no; or let her drink it whenever she wants. (Or I can turn into one of the "I get it and you don't" parents.)
Both my kids wanted to try coffee so I let them. They thought it was nasty. They have no idea why I like it. Some of the things parents feel they need to control for their kids baffles me.

I don't see how stopping drinking it yourself and saying no is a good idea. I think that part of allowing our children to make their own choices in life is letting them do things even if we don't choose to do them ourselves. My 6 year old recently decided she wanted to play golf. I've never played golf, have no desire to, and think it is sort of a silly sport. None the less, I found some place where they teach 6 year olds to play golf. By your reasoning, I could just say, "I don't play golf so you can't either." I don't think that makes any sense.

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If she wants to have sex when she is 12, I have to accept the fact that I have really failed as a parent. Or maybe I can just blame TV!
:LOL :LOL :LOL

If my child said they wanted to have sex at 12 I would flip, but I would help them get birthcontrol, buy them rubbers, and tell them how to tell a boy to put on a rubber. For god's sake, if they are going to do it, they are going to do it. I would rather them tell me and be as safe as possible then keep it a secret.

I would also wonder where I went wrong. I would feel so sad if my DDs made that sort of decsion..if they had so little self-respect.
post #151 of 173
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Originally Posted by Linda KS
Both my kids wanted to try coffee so I let them. They thought it was nasty. They have no idea why I like it. Some of the things parents feel they need to control for their kids baffles me.
I think coffee is a drug and not a food. It just seems wrong to me for young children to drink it. I've seen parents give coffee to 2- and 3-year-old children. I feel that if I don't want my children to have it, then I should be willing to give it up too. Just like smoking - children don't take it seriously when parents smoke and then tell the kids not to smoke.

I tried coffee when I was 13 and didn't like it. I didn't really start drinking it until I was 18. So maybe it won't even be an issue.

If my 12-year-old daughter wanted to have sex, I would intervene. It seems really weird to me that a child that young would really want to have sex. I think most kids that are very interested in sex that young are being abused, and it's my job to protect my kids from abuse. Besides, I think it would be illegal for me to allow it; if a parent knows that a preteen child is sexually active and doesn't intervene, I think that would be a CPS issue. But that's a whole other thread...and my kids are so young it's hard to tell. Maybe when they are in middle school I will have morphed into a coercive, do-it-my-way kind of parent. :LOL
post #152 of 173
Both of my dc have asked to try coffee and I said yes. I drink unsweetened espresso with milk and my dd made a face and my son couldn't get past the smell to even take a sip. If they really liked it I would heavily milk it down and give them some. I let them drink ice tea and they sometimes drink colas so they do get a little caffeine. My dd loves chocolate covered espresso beans and when I can afford them I give her a couple. Once I bought some and had them in the freezer, she ate half the bag (not even knowing what they were) and I couldn't figure out why she was acting so freaky. When she mentioned she had eaten lots of the candy in the freezer I told her what they were and explained that the candy was causing her bizarre jubilance :LOL . We both had a good laugh and still joke about it. So my dc do understand that caffeine is something that we need to be careful with.
post #153 of 173
Ive been drinking coffee since age 9 or so, and having sex since 13. The coffee thing is no big deal IMO, the sex at 13 thing is a bit more so

I wished my mom would have talked to me more about sex both before and after I became sexually active. Instead all I got before I had it was "Dont do it", and all I got for at least a year after I had it were words like "irresponsible" and such. This was one area my mom, who I think was a great mom btw, really dropped the ball in. My kids have had tons of info on sex and both of them say they are nowhere near ready for that kind of decision or relationship yet. (They are 11.5 and almost 14) When they are I will treat it as I have treat other things from them, with respect, guidance, and info.
post #154 of 173
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Originally Posted by PoppyMama
My dd loves chocolate covered espresso beans and when I can afford them I give her a couple. Once I bought some and had them in the freezer, she ate half the bag (not even knowing what they were) and I couldn't figure out why she was acting so freaky. When she mentioned she had eaten lots of the candy in the freezer I told her what they were and explained that the candy was causing her bizarre jubilance :LOL . We both had a good laugh and still joke about it. So my dc do understand that caffeine is something that we need to be careful with.
This is so funny! :LOL
post #155 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
I think coffee is a drug and not a food. It just seems wrong to me for young children to drink it.
You wouldn't let your child have 1 sip so they could find out that is bitter and nasty?

To me, making a big harry deal out of it would make into this huge wonderful thing that the child would want the minute they got a chance. May be even keep drinking it though they hate it just because it is such a huge deal.

My kids have each had a sip -- enough to decide they hate it. Do you think that was "wrong?"
post #156 of 173
I think aversion therapy tends to backfire. A lot of kids I knew who started smoking and drinking at young ages were first introduced to substances by a parent who was trying to get the kid to hate it. It didn't work; the kid just fell in love with it.

But maybe with coffee it's different somehow.
post #157 of 173
Both my kids like coffee and drink it in moderation
post #158 of 173
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Originally Posted by zipperump-a-zoomum
Both my kids like coffee and drink it in moderation
Same here. Though moderation could be defined any number of ways I suppose.

My drink coffee and or tea several times a week. Often when first waking up like I do (coffee) or tea in the afternoon or night. They've known how to make a pot of coffee for years now.
post #159 of 173
We let ds1 have a sip of beer after he repeatedly asked to try it. He made the most disgusted face I've seen on him since he tried asparagus. He declared that it was "too spicy". So now, the excitement over the forbidden drink is gone.

We drink black tea together every day.

I'm really starting to think, as was stated earlier in the thread, that the whole addiction angle is genetic. I've heard people insist that making a drink taboo leads to alcoholism, that not exposing kids to drink leads to alcoholism and that early exposure leads to alcoholism. It can't be all of the above. I've known people who had what could only be described as addictive personalities. They didn't do anything ("good or bad") in small measures, very disconcerting to observe.
post #160 of 173
We used to keep the recycling outside our door until we realized ds was taking the beer bottles for any left over sips. Now they are out of reach. Don't french children regularly drink coffee with lots of warm milk and sugar?
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