changed a circ diaper today - Page 3

[susienjay]

I really do think you are looking for information and really we have a ton of it if you want it. I think the way you asked didn't set well with me and probably others. You came in and said that your dh and ds are both circed and neither of them have problems so you don't see what the big deal is. This was my impression so I'm sorry if I took it wrong. I know I didn't use to think it was a big deal but the more I read about it the more opposed I become. If you'd like to read more about the damage done you can check out the following link. It has a list of all of the things lost from a circumcision.

http://www.norm.org/lost.html

[feebeeglee]

Originally Posted by pfamilygal

I just wanted to insert something here. My son was circ'ed for religious reasons. We may circ if we have another boy - I am not sure (please do not flame me). For the first 3 days it was a little weepy and red, but has looked absolutely fine since then. I was grateful that we had him circ'ed as we discovered his hypospadias quite a bit sooner and were able to have it repaired at 18 months instead of waiting til he was older. He was given a lidocaine shot, sugar water and nursed immediately afterward. He was also given Tylenol every 4 hrs for 3 days.

Excellent. I commend you for getting him some pain relief during and after his surgery. Seriously - a horrifyingly huge majority of circumcisions are performed with no pain relief at all.

It seems like mamas on this board exagerrate how terrible circing looks and all the problems associated with it.

We don't, I swear. The complications really are that common. Meatal stenosis - where the urethra narrows and urine flow becomes impeded - happens about 10 percent of the time. That's not an intactivist site I'm sending you to - in fact I found that link on a pro-circumcision forum at another site. Skin bridges of foreskin fused to the glans and the inner foreskin happen all the time. Other complications are less common, but still very real. At any rate they are common enough that the risks of the circumcision procedure outweigh the benefits, as the American Academy of Pediatrics has found, hence neither they nor any other national medical organization in the world recommends routine neonatal circumcision

For someone like me, who is open to information about non-circ'ing, this makes me shut those people out. When all I hear is how they have a wound forever and it's sticky and horrible and causes the child pain for years, I stop listening.

There is a thread on the front page right now that speaks of a child in mid-childhood (he's 6? 8?) who was circumcised as a newborn who is in severe discomfort from the procedure as his glans emerges from his remnant foreskin more fully. Listen to that.

My dh is circ'ed and has never had a problem. We have great sex . My son is circ'ed and has had no problems. Hyperboles tend to make people tune out.

I agree, they do. I'm glad you and your husband are satisfied. Most circumcised men are happy with sex as well, I'd say. I'm also glad your son is OK.

I know you all mean well, but I think the message gets blurred. Not holding a circ'ed baby seems really strange to me. Other parents make different choices than you sometimes and it seems a *bit* controlling to me to say that you could not be friends with someone who circ'ed their child even when you gave them information. I give information to people about breastfeeding all the time and many of them still use formula. They are still my friends.

Well it's not controlling for me, at least, because I'm not withholding my friendship because I think that somehow depriving them of me will change their mind. I do it for myself, and my sanity. I gave them a chance, usually many many chances, and finally they don't take it - well, legally I can't do a thing for the child. The information is there if they look for it and they are not my responsibility any more. I can spend my time telling other people about circumcision.

I'm pretty sure I would not end a friendship solely because the mother chose to use formula. I think the difference is that leaving a child intact requires no action on the part of the parents. Breastfeeding does require effort, and lots of it.

[kxsiven]

pfamilygal. You have to also remember that this board is read by people who come from totally intact cultures. People like me.

I often see Americans being absolutely horrified by all types of female circumcision(even the mild ones where there is nothing cut away just blood is drawn a little bit). They feel sorry for all girls circumcised and wondering why any parent could do that to a child - religious or cultural.

Here in Scandinavia male circumcision is concidered as shocking as female circ - no matter what the reason is, religious or cultural. No one here can understand why any parent would allow that to be done to an innocent baby boy. Circumcised boys look scarred and hurt here same way as circumcised girls.

Comparing formula using to circumcision is little bit strange. (ofcourse I agree that breastmilk is the best). Circumcision leaves lifelong scar, keratinization and so many other problems even if it is done 'succesfully'. Most circumcised women in Africa and Asia swear that they have no problems and their sexlife is great - that is because they have no idea how their sexlife would be with all the parts. Many circumcised men also say this and they think that problems they get when they get older are caused by age&mother nature when in fact they are caused by infant circumcision.

I do not end friendships based on circumcision status. But I do not want to see circumcised children,boys or girls, I feel so sorry for them. I'm also very happy that in USA circumcision rates are dropping quite fast.

[Frankly Speaking]

pfamilygal:

Do you understand that a hospital circumcision has no religious significance at all? That is, that it is the same as any other circumcision unless it is done as a part of a religious celebration and done by a mohel?



Frank

[jessjgh1]

I can't beleive I am contradicting Frank BUT,

"Do you understand that a hospital circumcision has no religious significance at all? That is, that it is the same as any other circumcision unless it is done as a part of a religious celebration and done by a mohel?"

The Reform tradition, for example, does not adhere to the same strict rules as other Jewish traditions. In particular, the reform rabbi I talked to did not require us to have a circumcision by mohel (had we chosen to circ). They would have been fine if we had a hospital circ (dh strangly, thought that would be better and wanted that over by a mohel) they even suggested that we should have a ceremony even if we were not going to circ.

I believe that statement would be true for most Orthodox temples, but they may make exceptions for medical issues- or just take a drop of blood, as they do with adult conversions.

Also (I think someone prev. stated this, but I didn't say anything then), in interfaith families, a person is Jewish if they are raised Jewish. So this means that it does not have to follow the traditional line which is through the mother. So, even though I am NOT Jewish, and my dh is only because his mother converted (and his mother's conversion is only accepted through reform law), if we raise our son Jewish- HE IS Jewish, even though he is intact- amen. Confusing, huh. Again, this is only through the Reform community.

I'm only partially familiar with all of this as I am in an interfaith family-- but I know that Conservative, Orthodox, Reform, and Humanistic Jews (I'm probably missing some) all do things differently- just like the various Christian denominations.

In any case, the penis status never really makes someone NOT a Jew from everythign I have researched (even the Orthodox on Penn & Teller said something to this extent).

Just a small point to clarify. FWIW,

Jessica

[Frankly Speaking]

This is something I have never heard before. I know that a person's Jewishness comes through the mother and that any male born to a Jewish mother is considered Jewish whether he is circumcised or not. But, I had always heard that the circumcision had no religious significance unless it was performed as a part of the bris ritual. Could this possibly be an outgrowth of the circumcisions that were routinely done without parental consent up until the early 1970's? I have read of Jewish families that were very upset that this happened to them because they had planned on having it done as part of the ceremony and therefore, they ceremony could not be done as prescribed.



Frank

[Kathryn]

I had been told that if you have a circ preformed at the hospital you still have to go through a traditional drawing of penile blood with a mohel since he didn't do the actual circ.

[PuppyFluffer]

Just a friendly reminder about religious discussion in this forum.... In general, religious discussion is not hosted here due the fact that it most always deteriorates into a debate. This is The Case Against Circumcision Board and we are here to inform and discuss, not debate. While I see no debate here of of yet....I just want to be proactive and give a little reminder.

Thanks so much!

[Kathryn]

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

Just a friendly reminder about religious discussion in this forum.... In general, religious discussion is not hosted here due the fact that it most always deteriorates into a debate. This is The Case Against Circumcision Board and we are here to inform and discuss, not debate. While I see no debate here of of yet....I just want to be proactive and give a little reminder.

Thanks so much!

Thank you for reminding.

[apmammaof2]

Hi all, havn't been to this forum in a few days and all I can say is WOW! I didn't mean to stir up such commotion.
speaking for myself and ONLY myself I want to clarify.
I have found it hard to maintain my friendships with my friends who have chosen to circ (after providing them with all the info I could) BECAUSE I guess mainly How? Why? I just can't understand why anyone who has been given the reasons to keep a child intact and still decide's to go ahead and do it could be driven by anything other than conformity and it is hard for me to associate with someone who could put a cosmetic procedure over the health and well-being of their own flesh and blood.
Also, This particular mamma claims to be an ap'ing mamma.
In my opinion circing is not ap at all. ( I may be flamed for that one sorry).

However, at the present time our friendship remains. It remains for personal reasons which include some hardships she has helped get me thru prior to the birth of her child. I do have to admitt that now I am finding it harder to associate with her because I now question her motives when it comes to her children and it makes it hard for me to respect her (if that makes any sense)

When it comes to her baby. I agree that the baby is innocent of all of this and all I ment in my post is that It never even donned on me that I had never asked to hold the child untill some people mentioned it. After reading those posts and looking at myself and my thoughts I guess I still dont know why I havn't held her baby. It isn't his fault his parents chose this. Maybe it is because of the issues I am having with his mother. I honestly do not know. I will have to look inward to find an answer for this one.

Untill then my apologies.