Babysitter contracts?

[Greaseball]

Here is an idea I had just in case we ever advertise and hire a sitter that way: have her sign a contract, the idea being she would be sued if she violated the contract.

Would this work? How could I make such a contract legally binding? Here are some things I'd like it to say - no personal phone calls; no inviting friends over; no personal reading or internet use; no TV watching; no spanking; and no smoking or alcohol use while on the job, for starters.

What do you think? Would you sit for someone who wanted to make these agreements legally binding? Personally I think they are bare minimum standards of care, but from what I hear they are things a lot of parents have trouble with when they hire sitters.

[Seasons]

This is JUST my opinion, but if my babysitting daughter [not that boys don't/shouldn't babysit, but my only child is female!] showed me such a contract from potential parents, I'd --

1. Laugh. Anybody watching any one of the zillion law-procedural shows knows a breach of contract case requires proof of damages. What would the parents say, that they lost ten cents worth of banana she ate without authorization?
2. Commiserate. Clearly this family has a lot of stress, and had poor sitting situations in the past, and feel they have no control over selecting and choosing another sitter.
3. Suggest that my daughter find other, calmer families for which to sit. Here good sitters are VERY much in demand; why should she involve herself with folks who'd pick apart her every move?

[mammastar2]

Well, all contracts are legally binding whether you write them down or not - you just need an offer, someone to accept the offer, and something exchanged in return. So yes, like any terms of employment these would be binding. I think that writing down the terms of engagement is often a good idea, to avoid misunderstandings and to be clear about what is important to you.

So far as suing goes: (a) it's a lot of trouble; (b) in contract law, you don't get anything without proving damages. Just the fact that a babysitter didn't do something she said he or she would do would not entitle you to something in court. The thing being done wrong would have had to have caused you some damage that could be counted in $$$, and you'd have to prove that part of it.

So, I'd go for it from the point of view of communicating your expectations, but it doesn't provide any particualr benefit in terms of suing on it later.

[wednesday]

Hmmm...I wouldn't hire a sitter that I had those type of concerns about. We have only used a few sitters but they were always people we already had some kind of relationship with, not just random teenagers.

[mammastar2]

By the way, I think most of the terms you stated sound just fine and well worth communicating to potential sitters. You won't have problems with any of them! I remember you were having trouble finding care, having had mostly unpaid friends and family who weren't too keen on your way of doing things, and paying a sitter will be a lot easier on that front.

The no personal calls, no personal reading I didn't quite get - I would agree if my daughter was up and about. The sitter should be hanging out with her, not doing her own thing. But I fully expect that when she's in bed the sitter is probably going to be doing her homework, reading a book, or chatting with a friend. What else would they be doing at that point?

You probably want to strike a happy balance between sounding clear on your expectations and sounding like nice reasonable folks to work for.

[Changed]

Not a good idea...

And I'll tell you why.

It's the same concept as with asking a Dr. to sign an intact care agreement in some sense. You feel that the contract is neccesary because you don't trust that individual to care for your child as you would want them to. As YOU would. This is the root of the need for such things. Trust. No, I don't blame you, I wouldn't trust a teenager with my kids. I was a teenage babysitter once. WAnt to know what motivates a teen sitter to follow your rules? Money.

I used to babysit for a lady with some strict guidelines. She sat me down, explained what she wanted and expected out of me. That she wanted her kids to enjoy having a sitter rather than seeing it as just someone to watch them for the parents benefit. Then she said this " Now, if you agree to follow those guidelines, I will pay you very well. My kids are pretty well behaved and you will like babysitting here. If you do not follow my rules to the T, I will not ask you to babysitt again. This is what my piece of mind is worth."

She gave my 50 bucks for the evening (3 hours) and I walked around with that checklist all night making sure everything was done and all the kids were having fun. I also cleaned up her kitchen... It was a great job and all I had to do was follow her rules. '



Now, I know everyone can't afford that but the idea stood out to me. It made it very clear that I was working for her and she was the boss, there or not.

[Greaseball]

The no personal calls, no personal reading I didn't quite get - I would agree if my daughter was up and about. The sitter should be hanging out with her, not doing her own thing. But I fully expect that when she's in bed the sitter is probably going to be doing her homework, reading a book, or chatting with a friend. What else would they be doing at that point?

The problem with this is if the kids are napping on a schedule, the sitter becomes accustomed to it (maybe) and then expects she will have "her" time when she can do her own personal things. Then if the kids don't stick to the schedule, she may feel entitled to that time anyway and might want them to get back on the schedule, or may just start ignoring them so she can read or whatever.

Also, if the kids are asleep, the sitter might see no harm in having the friend come over...I just want a potential sitter to be focused on work all the time she is at the house. If the kids are asleep, she can use the time to plan an activity, clean up from previous activities, or prepare a small snack. (Yes, I would plan on paying her well!)

I guess it wouldn't make sense to drag a sitter into court because I caught her watching TV. I'd just fire her. But I think sitters know they can easily get other jobs if they are fired; I wanted to be clear that there could potentially be other consequences. But I guess maybe it wouldn't work.

Still, just signing an agreement can sometimes put someone into a different mindset.

[wednesday]

This thread suddenly put me in mind of prenuptial contracts...my point being if you don't trust the person, you don't trust the person. I'm sorry you're having a hard time tho.

My SIL belongs to a homeschool co-op and has gotten several of her sitters through contacts on the email list. She's been very very happy with the girls she's used so far.

I have another POV as a former sitter. One family I used to sit for had three kids and knew they could be kind of a handful. They really didn't expect the sitter to do much more than keep an eye on things and put the kids to bed at a certain time. One thing they did that was really helpful was this: their kids were usually very limited in how much TV they were allowed to watch. But when they had a sitter they were allowed to watch a video and eat popcorn. It was a big treat for them so they actually LOVED having a sitter and they behaved really well.

I think from the parents' POV it was unrealistic to ask someone else to be Mary Poppins to their three spirited kids. They just wanted the kids to be safe and reasonably happy until the parents got back.

I would never have watched their kids for 5 minutes if they had approached me from an adversarial perspective, like with a list or contract of what I could and couldn't do. I saw myself as their kids' "friend," not so much as an employee, fwiw.

[Greaseball]

We've actually never had a sitter that was not a trusted friend or family member, and it's been months since we've had one we do know, so I haven't really had a bad experience.

My two kids are very high-need and I doubt they would leave a sitter much time for TV watching or reading, but so many people have this idea that childcare is easy work because you just turn on the TV and the kids entertain themselves. I want to be right up front that the job is not like that; it will be very demanding and I will pay well, but in exchange for that payment I expect hard work. With other sitters who have just offered to help us out and didn't expect payment, I didn't care if they had the TV on. I often sent a video along. This was usually in their own homes anyway.

I know you shouldn't hire someone you don't trust, but most jobs come with rules and with agreements that must be signed. I wouldn't install hidden cameras or anything, so it would largely be the honor system but I would check the computer's history list and there may be times when I'd arrive home early and unannounced.

It could be that the job would be so demanding that no one would be interested - the people who have helped us for free are no longer willing - but that's a chance I'm going to take. I can afford to discriminate - maybe it would be different if I had to go back to work and find someone to take them all day, but I'm just wanting occasional nights out with dh, so I don't feel like I need to compromise on what's important to me. If someone isn't willing to put my children above all else while they are in my home, I will just do without childcare until I find someone who is willing, or until my children are less demanding.

It could be a better way to get my expectations across is to have a thorough interview process, using the questions from Protecting the Gift.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I use a lot of sitters and I sort of do what you are saying. That is, I write down my expectations and rules for sitters. IMHO, it is pointless to make it a signed, formal contract. You really aren't going to be able to take a sitter to court because they turned on the TV. But, it is very helpful to have all the info I can think that they would need about the kids written down because that way I don't have to go through the rules every time or with every sitter, and I think the kids get better care if the sitters know as much about them as possible.

So, I have about a 4 page document that is tacked to the fridge. It includes a page of emergency numbers, address of the house and directions (for the pizza guy or the ambulence driver), height, weight and medical points on the kids. Then 1 page on each of the kids schedules, likes/dislikes, stuff to make the sitters life easier. Little things that you might forget to tell a sitter as you went out the door. Then I have a page of rules/expectations. This makes it clear and easy for everybody. It was also a sneaky way to tell my parents that if they ever hit the kids, they wouldn't babysit again, but that's another story.

I tell each sitter two basic rules: The only thing I expect them to do is take care of the kids (e.g. no cleaning, they don't even have to pick up the dishes). And my basic parenting philophy is to respect children and treat them gently. I make sure they know where my "baby sitter guide" is and other details of course.

I treat my sitters with as much respect as I expect them to show my children (modeling works with sitters too). I pay them top dollar. I have fun stuff for everyone to do. I try to make their job as easy as possible. I choose them carefully. Then I get out of the way and trust them to do it.

[jenaniah]

Just speaking as a nanny here...I doubt very seriously that you will get someone to watch your kids with those rules laid out...I defnitely wouldn't do it. I don't mean to step on your toes or offend you but you are not treating your potential sitter with the respect they deserve when you lay out rules like that. Having rules laid out like that will actually be more likely to lead to resentment towards you from your sitter which in turn will lead to resentment of your children.

[BrooklynDoula]

Setting up this contract seems like a VERY bad idea to me. I have two babysitters for my son - one during the week for 10 hours at her house and one at my house on weekends and whenever else I need her. The first is a local mom who is trining to be a teacher and the second is a local college student. I pay them well and treat them well. I told them what we want and like and I also trust them to use their judgement. They are both awesome. Are they always perfect? No. Am I always perfect? No. But on he things that really matter - they are unfailing.

I have and do work doing some childcare and NOTHING replaces good, open, kind communication. A contract seems silly to me, especially if you are doing so with the itenion of being able to use it punatively. What you want is someone who will LOVE your child and care for them with love, no someone who will follow your contract.

My 2 cents.

[Greaseball]

But I think it's different when you're a nanny, even if you don't live in - you're expected to take care of the children as a full-time job. If you only worked for a family for 3-4 hours one evening a week, would you still expect to have breaks and to do things other than tend to the children? In most jobs, it's pretty standard to not have a break when you only work 4 hours or less. Is this not so for sitters?

I haven't been a sitter in a long time; not since I was 14, actually. And I never sat for babies or high-need kids.

[Saartje]

I think Jen just hit the nail on the head: this is about respect. Yes, other jobs have contracts you sign. Do you really want to put caring for your child in the same category as being a faceless drone in a cubicle for 9 hours a day? Have a discussion with a potential sitter. Discuss your expectations (and try to keep those reasonable) and the expectations the sitter has of you. Don't try to make about, "Do this and don't do that or I'll sue you." That's insulting, and IMO will assure the only people willing to work for you are from the bottom of the barrel: the folks who can't get any other sitting jobs.

[jenaniah]

I also sit for families who aren't my FT nanny jobs and if I had someone lay out rules like that there is no way I would do it, but it really isn't about the rules (although I do think yours are a bit unreasonable) it's about the tone with which they are presented. I think that it will actually be worse in the situation of someone only occassionally watching your child as opposed to a FT nanny b/c said sitter will not have the bond with your kids the way I do with mine, kwim?

[Greaseball]

Suppose there were no written rules, and a potential family just said something like "Our children will demand a great deal of your time and energy, and I would like your time here to be focused completely on them. We prefer our sitters not watch TV, make personal phone calls, do schoolwork or use the internet for personal use while our children are in their care." Would this be reasonable?

[Clarity]

I think that's a lot more reasonable. The agency I just used to find sitters does use "contracts" - they are statements of mutual expectation and it says very clearly it is NOT a legal contract. Why is that an issue? The second side. YOU as the employer are FAR more likely to be sued. Many, many employers do NOT do employment contracts and some are even loathe to put many details in job descriptions or offer letters since it would be binding in a future employment litigation issue. It is my opinion though that you indeed could write a document outlining your expectations for her, and hers for you. In most places you can fire someone for any reason whatsoever, but putting things in writing potentially makes it a lot more complicated, depending on employment rules in your state, so keep that in mind. It's just as likely to be used as leverage on you, not just you on her. So keep it mutual. Lots of good books on nanny hiring go over how to communicate expectations.

As far as you suing her, it would probably only be worthwhile in the event of theft, property damage, or actual harm to your child. And that assumes you'd be able to collect damages. she's probably broke. But also unlikely to be super sophisticated about employment laws, so she's pretty darn unlikely to sue you too, especially in a part time babysitter situation.

[jenaniah]

Originally Posted by Greaseball

Suppose there were no written rules, and a potential family just said something like "Our children will demand a great deal of your time and energy, and I would like your time here to be focused completely on them. We prefer our sitters not watch TV, make personal phone calls, do schoolwork or use the internet for personal use while our children are in their care." Would this be reasonable?

Absolutely...I think that is a much more agreeable way to say it

I would however say that if your children should happen to be asleep and things are put away from activities they can do schoolwork, read or watch tv...it's not really fair to expect them to do nothing while the kids are sleeping.

[Dar]

I probably wouldn't have babysat for someone who was trying to ban me from reading while the kids were asleep. Usually I would babysit during the evening, and often the kids would be up for the first 2 or 3 hours and then sleep for the next two... kind of pointless to plan an activity when you'll probably be gone before the kids wake up, and cleaning up a bit or having a snack takes half an hour, tops. So I'd have spent an hour and a half doing nothing, which is a waste of time no matter how well you pay me.

A *good* sitter won't feel entitled to have homework time or free time while sitting, but she will be offended at being expected to stare at her toes.

Really, if you don't trust your sitter with your kids, I don't think a contract or rules will help. It's helpful to have some information for the sitter, house rules, if you like, and normal routines and discipline tactics, but I would couch them as useful information to help the sitter do her job well, not as rules for her.

I really took the opposite approach with Rain's sitters, once she was 5 or so. I trusted them to make good decsions, and I told them that what was important for me was for her to have a good time. There were occasional misjudgements, but they were all due to the sitter thinking Rain would have fun doing something and going a little too far, rather than the sitter ignoring her needs or being mean to her. She loved having sitters...

Dar

[Saartje]

Originally Posted by Greaseball

Suppose there were no written rules, and a potential family just said something like "Our children will demand a great deal of your time and energy, and I would like your time here to be focused completely on them. We prefer our sitters not watch TV, make personal phone calls, do schoolwork or use the internet for personal use while our children are in their care." Would this be reasonable?

That's much better. I do agree with pps again, though, that if the children are asleep, you can't expect a sitter to just sit. And if they're only occasional sitters for a night out, no, you can't expect them to be using that time to plan activities, either. A full-time caregiver plans activities, but for an occasional one the parent is wise to have something fun the kids can do under the sitter's supervision.