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i lost my tempor with someone else's kid! - Page 2

post #21 of 84
The fact that he brought that many toys to the park kinda suggests that he might have issues about his stuff. Children that age also have a lot more personal space issues than children your dd's age and rejection of "babies" is pretty common. He was rude in the way he refused to share but not in the not sharing itself and he could have been told gently that it was fine if he didn't want to share but that he didn't need to hurt your dd's feelings and then his refusal to share should have been respected. What you did was much worse than what he did and it doesn't seem like you recognize that. My dd (just turned 8) still has trouble "holding it" and wears pull ups at night and "dribbles" sometimes during the day. She is not autistic and doesn't have other health issues. If she was mean to another child I would want to know and would be OK with the child saying something to her or the mother, if it was constructive. If anyone said what you did to my child and then didn't have the guts to come confess to me so that I know what was going on when she became even more ashamed and nervous about her toileting issues I would be livid and confront you after I found out and saw you again. I am upset by your lack of understanding of how devastating a statement like that could be to a child and then for you to try to justify it by saying that how abnormal it was for a child that age to be in pullups and then blame it on PMS. Soon your dc will be older and do many things that you can't imagine YOUR child doing and I hope that the adults around her will act with more caution and maturity,
post #22 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by moma justice
yes it was the wrong way to do it...
and my major concern is that the boy might be a high functioning autistic or other that would make him so unable to be polite and/or still be in diapers

that would make me feel real bad


and these crappy moms have crappy kids.

period

so if you are saying things like, if this were my kid etc.....
i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom.

and IMO, it is a bad sign if your 4.5 year old is still in diapers, every thing i have read about EC shows me that is just not normal or ok.

!
My kid might have been the one at the park in diapers at four and a half. (And I"m here on mdc.) If an adult made a commment to her about diapers I'd be furious, and she'd have been devastated - far more so than you toddler being told she's a baby. It would probably have set us back another 6 months on potty learning.

Please, please dont make assumptions about other kids being 'crappy' if they are not what you consider to be 'normal'.
post #23 of 84
It is your job as an adult and as a mama to teach by example. Yes, the boy could have reacted differently. He could have politely said that he wasn't in the mood to share. BUT HE'S 4!!!

And although it is hard to watch your child get treated badly by another child, it is part of life. And I look at it as my job not to correct the offender but to help show my child how to handle it when it happens.

In music class the other day, my five year old dd accidentally bumped into another 5 yr old in the class. The other girl YELLED at my dd "Watch where you're going!" and the whole class stopped. My dd turned and ran over to me, tears in her eyes. I don't think I would have improved the situation by belittling the other girl. But, I did comfort my dd and later we talked about what happened...and I tried to help her find words that would help her get through something like that in the future.

My point is that you seem to want some sort of affirmation that although what you did wasn't the best, it's okay because...... But I think you are failing to see that it is never okay to belittle a child. Teach by example. And some day when you have a 4 yr old you will hear them say things that you never thought YOUR child would say.
post #24 of 84
I think what you said is a LOT worse than what he said.

I'm not flaming, but think about it.

And he's little. How can you have high standards for a 4 yr old, and not meet them yourself?
- - -

I don't expect kids to share toys with my dd at the park. I don't expect other kids to welcome her into their games.

Many, many times my dd will aproach 3-5 yr olds making sand "cakes" and whatnot. They almost never want her to touch their cakes, or interfere. I make sure she doesn't. I let her watch, I let her explore, but I am careful make sure she stops at their limits. I think that is important to model. If another person says "Hey, back off" you should back off. Even if they are rude about it.

Yes, they are older, but they are still LITTLE. I think maybe it is easy to see older kids and think they should be grown up, but they are young children.
1. They don't communicate tactfully
2. They have a right to their own opinions

I feel badly for that little boy.

ETA - I reread your OP and I think where you went wrong is that you blatantly disregarded his answer. She asked "Can I play with your toys?" He said no. You interfered and ignored him. Not respectful.
post #25 of 84
I have tried to understand your point of view, but as I have read this over and over I just can't understand or acceprt that an adult could speak in such a hurtful, and aweful way to a child.

Sure, he was rude...but he is 4! Sometimes four year olds are rude. I know you child is still young, but I will advise you, some day your child will be rude to a younger child as well. I only hope she does not have another mommy toss insults and shaming words her way when she makes a mistake.

They were his toys, and he has a right to ask that they not be played with.

What you said was aweful, and hateful, and shaming. It does not matter if he is special needs or not, you should feel terrible, and you owe that family a big appology. PMSing or not, please learn from this situation and NEVER let something like this happen again. If you are not able to control yourself around other peoples children, perhaps it would be best if you stayed in your own back yard.
post #26 of 84
Quote:
and i guess a big part of my fustration was that i have just moved into a VERY wealthy neighborhood, (we rent a basement apt....)

and i am just sick of these crappy moms
these are the moms who keep their babies in bucket seat all day long, dont' breast feed, have scheduled c sections just b/c, spank, and are obsessed with their kids wearing the most expensive kids clothes ever....

and these crappy moms have crappy kids.
I am not really understanding how this has to do with speaking meanly to a four year old. This is justified because you don't like someone's parenting decisions or their level of income? :

Quote:
i will just tell you that this is not your kid, this kid would never be your kid, if it were, you would not be here on MDC thinking about being a good mom.
Actually, I am rather shocked that someone on MDC would speak like this to a four year old.
post #27 of 84
It sounds like, from your other comments, that you have a lot of other resentments, and you took them out on a safe person--that relatively defenseless child (his mother was not even nearby to protect him).

I hope that next time you feel the urge to lash out, that you will think for a moment and maybe bite your tongue.

Don't punish children on the playground because you resent your neighborhood.
Don't punish strangers' kids because your friends' kid hurt yours and you felt powerless to stop it.
Don't return a slap with a knife to the gut.
Don't punish children because their parents let them bring more toys than you think is proper, or because their parents use baby buckets.

What you said to that child is absolutely, positively inexcusable, and has NO place in an AP framework. Your daughter heard and saw you being vile to another little child today. However, I've got to tell you that what you did is also pretty common, I've heard parents say it to their own kids. So, you can criticize his mother for not being close and having her baby in a bucket, but you acted pretty darn mainstream, perhaps even over the top mainstream.

PMS or not. I would say your words were borderline abusive. Thank goodness that probably in that context they won't have that effect, because hopefully some strange lady mocking him on the playground will mean nothing to the kid. I hope.

I also really hope that there's no karmic payback.

Just next time it might be a good idea to walk away, or take a deep breath and respond to other children how you would respond to your own. Because if you think that your kid won't ever be mean, rude, or hateful--lady, you are going to have one heck of a shock one day!

I hope you do feel a little guilty. I'm guessing that you do, because why else would you post about it HERE of all places? But, so you made a mistake. Hold yourself in a little more next time. I think kids are basically flexible, and as parents (and adults) we're going to make a lot of mistakes.

Personally, though, I'd rather some stranger with a problem sharpen their claws on me, rather than my child, if they do something wrong. That's my job, to act as interference. I'm sorry that little boy's mom wasn't there to protect him. Especially when you seem to imply that you never would have said something like that in front of his parent.
post #28 of 84
My son refused to go #2 in the toilet so he would occationaly wear cd out. If someone were to say something like that it would have been devistating, and even though he may have been in diapers, he could READ by 4, so I don't get how he was developmentaly behind. It was totally out of line to take your pent up frustration out on a child, and then blame it on something as lame as PMS. He said no and you did not respect him or his things. That said, there is a boy in my son's class who is insanely spoiled and his parents do not believe in saying no or not giving him everything he wants. Today he brought a toy (does this on a daily basis since his parents don't pay attention to the school rules) that the school said they didn't want anyone to have in class. I was getting ds things, and turned to see him shoving the toy in my ds face and bragging about it and then refused to let him play with it. I wanted to yell and grab the toy from him. I never have violent feelings to kids, but that kid drives me nuts. I just let it go because HE IS A PRODUCT OF HIS PARENTS. At that age you have to blame the parents, not lash out at the dc.
post #29 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild
Don't punish children on the playground because you resent your neighborhood.
Don't punish strangers' kids because your friends' kid hurt yours and you felt powerless to stop it.
Don't return a slap with a knife to the gut.
Don't punish children because their parents let them bring more toys than you think is proper, or because their parents use baby buckets.


I also really hope that there's no karmic payback.
ITA.

I think it's a pity the boy's mother didn't hear you.
post #30 of 84
My son has PDD-NOS (autism spectrum disorder) and could very well have been that child. He didn't potty-train until four years three months, had major issues with other people touching his things, and had a hard time communicating his feelings. If you would have spoken to my child that way, I can guarantee you my mama bear instinct would have kicked in and we would have had a major confrontation. And trust me when I say that a mama with a special needs child has almost always has one heck of a mama bear lurking inside her! Speaking to someone else's child that way is not acceptable. It bothers me most that you make a point of saying you would not have done it if his mother was there - you knew it was wrong, and you chose to do it anyway.

When my boy was in preschool he was picked on. Because of his disorder, he had a hard time making friends. He had color issues, he had clothing issues, there were many things that made him stand out. The classroom had an oval shaped rug with the letters of the alphabet printed on it. The first day of school he sat on the letter Y during circle time, and thought that every day after that he should sit on the Y. At first it was no big deal, but after a while other children started sitting on the Y just so he couldn't. His entire day would be ruined if he didn't get the Y. Things like that make a child stand out. One day I got a call from his teacher, telling me that some of the other boys had started a "club". The whole purpose of the "club" was that they didn't like my son and didn't want to play with him or talk to him. I can assure you that that brought the mama bear out in me, and I would have loved to give those kids a piece of my mind, but I did not. I would never speak to another child in a cruel way, no matter how justified I felt. In my opinion, what you did to that little boy was cruel.
post #31 of 84
I'd say you learned two things:

1. If your child approaches another child to play (likely, because she seems very socially skilled) and they say no, don't push the issue. Take your daughter's hand and go to another part of the park, making a neutral comment like "He doesn't want to share today." If the rejection is said in an insulting way, you could add "He didn't say so very nicely."

Kids don't have a constitutional right to share another kids' toys, even if they are in a public place. Kids need to learn that they can't automatically play with other kids' stuff. And I say this as a mother whose child rarely wants to share his stuff but always wants to play with others' stuff.

2. Your daughter watched you be mean to that little boy. Irrespective of how you feel about his feelings, remember that your daughter is a witness to your behavior all the time. It likely made her feel scared to watch you be mean to another child. This is why I try very hard not to be mean to other children (or parents) in front of my child-- because of the likely affect on him. I think that kids see you be mean to someone else and they think that you could do that to them -- not that what you did was equivalent-- but that's why witnessing domestic violence is so psychologically devastating to them.

Karla
post #32 of 84
Geez. That poor little boy. It was wrong to push him to share in the first place. You should have redirected your daughter and walked away the FIRST TIME he said that he wasn't interested in sharing. He was absolutely not obligated to share his toys, and was probably frustrated to be pushed about it. My 4 yo. would not have been nasty about it, but he would have been upset and overwhelmed if a stranger started insisting he share his toys with a baby. And yes -- she is a baby from a 4 yo. POV.

I have a child who does not like to share and needs a wide berth when it comes to personal space. I am very tired of standing in to protect him from kids who's parents teach them they have a god given right to hug him when he doesn't want to be touched, or "share" his things when he doesn't want to share. Nobody would hug a strange adult against their will or touch their things. You wouldn't walk up to me in the park and take my notebook or riffle through my bag. Even if I was spread out over a picnic table with 30 books, notebooks, and a cup of tea -- you wouldn't walk up and start picking through it. And especially not if I told you to go away. A 4 yo. child is entitled to whatever personal space they require.

That boy should have been corrected by a caregiver and helped with words that were more constructive. But what he said was not too unusual for a 4 yo. kid. They tend to say what they are feeling, you know? But I'd expect a grown woman to show more restraint. Four years old is still very little. You don't realize it when your child is a toddler. But four is barely past toddlerhood.

And as far as the child who pushed her -- well, that is sad. Perhaps you should teach her to ask before hugging someone. In order to protect her in the future. Pushing is a reflex for some kids, when they feel violated or that their space is invaded. I can see from my own children that *not* pushing and using their words instead requires a major effort.
post #33 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifetapestry
I'd say you learned two things:

1. If your child approaches another child to play (likely, because she seems very socially skilled) and they say no, don't push the issue. Take your daughter's hand and go to another part of the park, making a neutral comment like "He doesn't want to share today." If the rejection is said in an insulting way, you could add "He didn't say so very nicely."

Kids don't have a constitutional right to share another kids' toys, even if they are in a public place. Kids need to learn that they can't automatically play with other kids' stuff. And I say this as a mother whose child rarely wants to share his stuff but always wants to play with others' stuff.

2. Your daughter watched you be mean to that little boy. Irrespective of how you feel about his feelings, remember that your daughter is a witness to your behavior all the time. It likely made her feel scared to watch you be mean to another child. This is why I try very hard not to be mean to other children (or parents) in front of my child-- because of the likely affect on him. I think that kids see you be mean to someone else and they think that you could do that to them -- not that what you did was equivalent-- but that's why witnessing domestic violence is so psychologically devastating to them.

Karla
ITA.


Wow. Just Wow.


Is that how you want your dd to react when she doesn't get what she wants? Why was it so important to you to punish this little boy? Your dd will face these situations many times in the coming years, she needs guidance and reassurance.

I really think you need to think about your attitude towards other kids (and their moms) and maybe stay out of public places until you work this out.
post #34 of 84
Just wanted to chime in. My ds is 8 and has Asperger Syndrome. He gets picked on a lot by the other kids in the neighborhood just because they think it's fun to see him lose control, so I often have to step in and be his voice and say for him the things he doesn't know how to say. I model the correct way to handle the situation.

As a result of having an older brother on the spectrum modeling less than social behavior, my dd almost 5 often imitates him. Part of it is being a girl and she can do snotty with the best of them. And part of it is the age- she often does not want to share her things either. She doesn't want anyone to talk about them or even look at them. I'm embarrassed when she's not in the mood to share and I have to explain "I'm sorry, she doesn't want to share her toys today." but what will getting angry and fussing at her about it do? Make her defensive, upset and less likely to share next time.

You don't know this 4 year old's story. He could be autistic, have an autistic sibling, just have been tired or hungry or whatever. I think you could have handled it much better than you did in the heat of the moment, and you'll know better next time. I just wanted to let you know that older kid in diapers could have also been my ds at 6 and 7. He's 8 and making progress but he's not there yet. And you wouldn't know he's autistic just by looking at him. I have friends who tell me all the time they had no idea, he couldn't possibly be autistic because they see him at a 'good' time when he's at ease.

There are also medical conditions (encopresis for one) that could cause an older child to wear diapers. Just so you know, for next time. It's kind of silly to judge a child on whether or not he/she is normal. There is no normal. Every child is their own person and different.
post #35 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by moma justice
can i play?
he said
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
don't touch my stuff you are just a little baby and you will break it all
(and his tone was anger, and he said "baby" like it was an insult)
first of all we are talking about a plastic shovel
so i walked up and said, i will help her and make sure she plays with it nicely and i won't let her be rough with it.
Ok, there is namecalling here (baby), but other than that it sounds like he is really fearful of something happening to his toys. He articulated that very clearly. His wishes should have been respected.

Taunting a child (yours or another person's child) about potty learning development is unexcusable. Would you taunt a child about being a late walker? A late talker? This is a developmental milestone like any other.
post #36 of 84
I'm sorry if I sounded a little harsh. What I am trying to say is that your dd learns most by what you do and how you handle the situation.
post #37 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by moma justice


and i guess a big part of my fustration was that i have just moved into a VERY wealthy neighborhood, (we rent a basement apt....)

and i am just sick of these crappy moms
these are the moms who keep their babies in bucket seat all day long, dont' breast feed, have scheduled c sections just b/c, spank, and are obsessed with their kids wearing the most expensive kids clothes ever....

and these crappy moms have crappy kids.
See, now this is disturbing. This goes far deeper than just not sharing a shovel. Imagine if someone started a thread and reversed it: I took my child to a park in a POOR neighborhood, and those crappy white trash moms have crappy kids. And their CLOTHES were CHEAP, like from Goodwill.....how good would that go over? I am sure so many woudl be outraged, MDC's server would implode.

And if you just moved there, then my guess is that you have no idea how many of them actually had a scheduled c-section (not that its any of your business anyway)...and on and on.

And you know what? I buy my kids expensive clothes, and it doesnt mean i'm a bad mother. I can afford it.

And before anyone goes off the deep end because sweetbaby shops at Banana Republic and buys her lipgloss at Saks, please note that all those beautiful expensive clothes that i no longer wear, and my kids have outgrown goes straight to ARC or Goodwill (my old business suits and shoes went to Women In Distress).
post #38 of 84
I don't think there is *anything* you could tell me about the child's mother, or her parenting style, or the general social attitudes in your neighborhood that would justify taking out your frustration on her 4 yo. child.
post #39 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmama
yeah, but the kid has every right not to share toys with someone he just met.

i refuse to take our own toys to a park because it just leads to problems.

so he used baby as an insult, and then you turn around and use ut as an insult.

so, obviously you know NOTHING positive was created for that poor child or yours. if you had said that to my child i would have felt like slapping you...

what would i have done? probably after the first refusal, and definately after the second, i would have redirected my child to another area of the playground. if the ages had been closer, i would possibly have tried to get them to cooperate.
what she said.
post #40 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
See, now this is disturbing. This goes far deeper than just not sharing a shovel. Imagine if someone started a thread and reversed it: I took my child to a park in a POOR neighborhood, and those crappy white trash moms have crappy kids. And their CLOTHES were CHEAP, like from Goodwill.....how good would that go over? I am sure so many woudl be outraged, MDC's server would implode.

And if you just moved there, then my guess is that you have no idea how many of them actually had a scheduled c-section (not that its any of your business anyway)...and on and on.

.

Well said.
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