why CIO, and other things, happen

[mandalamama]

reading CIO threads both here and on mainstream boards ... also having just read The Continuum Concept (and loving it!) ... it seems like the root of the problem of any "baby training" technique is plain ol' parents being frustrated. frustrated that their baby doesn't fit one mold or another - the mold their parent's tell them is true, the mold the "experts" say is right, the mold that they themselves expect the baby to fit. such as "babies must be asleep by 7pm so the parents can have adult time" mold - how realistic is that for *every* baby to fit into? what if you birth a night-owl? what if you're a night-owl and the baby is an early-bird? there's no way to fit everyone into any kind of mold. and the "experts" cash in on that frustration, promising a solution of instant gratification to everyone.

people keep telling me i'm blessed and lucky to have a "great sleeper." they skip over the part where i might just be a great mama but seriously, i tell people, we're all three of us night-owls, so i put the baby to bed at 11pm, that's why we have no problems. (we also co-sleep and i believe that solves a LOT of problems.) we don't have the "alone time" that we used to, but then we didn't go into having a baby to keep our old schedule, we went into it not just knowing things would change but *looking forward to enjoying the changes*. so what if we have to do things differently? we both say we have to do something differently "because of the baby" with a huge grin on our faces it's an honor and a thrill to know that my life is changed forever by such a precious being!

anyway ... i think most of the CIO cases could be solved by simply letting the baby choose its bedtime, whenever that is. i notice that whenever parents try to force-fit a baby into a mold that doesn't fit the baby, it turns into a power struggle and both parents and babies lose

i'm not saying the baby should run the house ... oh wait, i AM saying that :LOL as long as Willow doesn't sell crack off the front porch or juggle the kitchen knives or microwave the cats, i trust her to lead me to parent her the right way ... for her

[Victorian]

thank you for a beautiful post about how parenting should be viewed. I agree 100%!

V.

[USAmma]

I had a very high needs baby the first time around, who turned into a high needs toddler and she still is high needs today. Probably always will be. :LOL

I was very, very tempted to CIO with her but she probably would have been one of those kids who cried until she vomited. Just thinking about her screaming alone in the dark was enough to stop that idea, but there were times I was soooo desperate for sleep. Even in the bed she kicked and squirmed all night long. That is when she went to bed. She has always been a night owl and an early riser (takes a good nap in the middle of the day). I am not sure that any method would have made her sleep better, she's just always been a poor sleeper. The family bed has served our needs better because we could be right there for her instead of tromping across the house 50 times a night to pat her back to sleep. I didn't get to nurse her so the main reason for her being in our bed was comfort and reassurance. She had to snuggle up very close to us but that didn't stop her from kicking our kidneys all night long either. Now at age 4.5 she does sleep in her bed most of the time.

My baby has always been a good sleeper when her health problems have not interfered. She took naps in the sling until about 9 mos old and slept in her crib or cosleeper at night. She let us know she wanted to be a crib baby and finally at 10 mos. I gave in to her wishes. She's the easy baby, the one who I can just lay down in the crib and pat a few times and she's asleep. She loves her crib, she loves naptime. Who am I to complain?

Both children are so different with their needs. I don't see how CIO would have solved anything for either of them. I don't see how it solves anything for anyone, really.

[Mothra]

people keep telling me i'm blessed and lucky to have a "great sleeper." they skip over the part where i might just be a great mama but seriously, i tell people, we're all three of us night-owls, so i put the baby to bed at 11pm, that's why we have no problems.

Well, I used to think that my oldest slept so well because I was a good mama, too. I was a good mama, but that wasn't why he slept so well. We didn't fight him and try to make him go to bed before he was ready and that definitely helped, but he slept well because that was how he was built. We did the exact same thing with my now 3yo and he still doesn't sleep through the night or have anything that resembles a healthy sleeping habit.

I think it is easier, too, to say that you should let the baby choose the bedtime when you are staying home with the baby during the day and don't have other children to worry about. My world got rocked when my third baby came along. My middle child's late bedtime did not work with my baby's all-night nursing and my oldest kid's need to get up at 6:30 to get ready for school Sometimes it just isn't practical, or even possible, to sit around and wait for a kid to go to bed.

Then you have the kids who fight sleep no matter what you do. I have a friend whose baby cries for an hour every night before going to sleep. Every night. They have ruled out physical causes for the crying. They've tried rocking, driving, walking in the sling, laying down with the baby, laying the baby down by himself, nursing, pacifier, side-lying, on the tummy, everything. Some babies just have a hard time getting to sleep even when the parents are doing everything "right".

I think that understanding how sleep works and that some schedules just don't work for some babies is essential to surviving when you have a baby that doesn't sleep "well". It can certainly relieve the frustration. I think it is important to understand, too, as an outsider that there are circumstances in every family that you might not understand and there isn't always going to be a quick fix for every family's sleep issues.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by Mothra

I think it is important to understand, too, as an outsider that there are circumstances in every family that you might not understand and there isn't always going to be a quick fix for every family's sleep issues.

Well, that's a big part of the reason I believe CIO is so horrible - it's just a "quick fix" that people turn to when they're frustrated and tired. It's the solution that pediatricians and mainstream parenting non-experts and "experts" (ha!) recommend for EVERY sleep "problem".

[mandalamama]

Willow hasn't always slept well, especially when we were going through trying different reflux meds to see what worked. i tried so many things, all i could do finally was hold her as she cried. i ended up posting here, asking if crying in-arms was as harmful as CIO, i was so worried that she was harming her body or mind by crying so much. learned that crying in-arms is very different from CIO. i guess i call her a good sleeper simply because i've never fought her about it ... if she needs another hour before she goes to sleep, then so be it, it's only for one night a week that she seems to need it. it doesn't feel like a power struggle, it feels like "this is just the way things are" so there's no tension.

i can imagine if we have another child, that's when the power struggles would begin, as i balance the needs of one child with the needs of another. i'm a WAHM so my schedule usually permits me to sleep whenever i need to. i was working on a huge, complicated website a few months ago that took up nearly all of my time, Willow's sleep was disturbed by my anxiety! i worked after she went to bed, and i rose early to work before she woke up, then i took cat-naps with her during the day whenever i could. i felt like wreck, but i knew the project would end and then things went back to normal. whew! i think if i worked outside the home, there would be power struggles because i'd need her to sleep specific hours ... that's why i didn't even try getting pregnant when i had my career outside the home. i knew i wouldn't be able to force a baby to fit my mold, kwim? it's just not my style, i guess.

i hate that the "experts" cash in on the needs of frustrated parents! an author can hardly get rich writing "do what you think is right" which would only be a couple of chapters long and not make much of a book

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Mothra

Then you have the kids who fight sleep no matter what you do. I have a friend whose baby cries for an hour every night before going to sleep. Every night. They have ruled out physical causes for the crying. They've tried rocking, driving, walking in the sling, laying down with the baby, laying the baby down by himself, nursing, pacifier, side-lying, on the tummy, everything. Some babies just have a hard time getting to sleep even when the parents are doing everything "right".

Sounds like dd. For the first three months or so, she cried non-stop from 11pm to 3am. Dh and I thought we were in hell. Once she went to sleep, she was great for several hours, but...

[KariM]

My oldest was an easy sleeper who stayed up late with his parents and would be happy even if he was tired.

My youngest is a troubled sleeper who NEEDS an early bedtime (6:30pm to be exact). We went through 4 horrible months before I realized what she was trying to tell me - let's go to bed, mom!

I think it's absolutely critical for moms to observe, listen, and learn from their children.

I used to believe that the way I parented DS was the "right" way. Now I know that every child has different needs that require unique parenting.

I agree that most parents would be better served by not trying to fit their children into a mold but instead mold themselves to their chidrens' needs.

--Kari

[Phoebe]

This is something I have been pondering for the past few weeks. Ds is 13.5 months. At about 10 months or so, getting him to go to sleep for his 2 naps and bed time was HELL! It would take 1.5 hours for EACH sleep time to nurse him down. I got so frustrated and I was really ugly sometimes to ds and dh because of it. CIO crossed my mind at that point and here's why...

My son was not tired. He was trying to tell me that the sleep times that he had kept previously were no longer working for him. I, being the creature of habit, did not want to accept his changing the deal that was working so well for me. Well, finally I said forget it and I skipped his morning nap. He went down...or passed out I should say...at noon instead and slept until 2 (with a stir and a nurse in there as usual). Then at 7pm he passed out again. I haven't been frustrated like that since. In fact, at night we used to lay ds on the futon in the basement before we brought him to bed later on. We'd have to wisper and watch TV in the dark. He would always wake up if we took him straight up to bed. Now, he's tired enough that he goes straight up to bed and Dh and I get to play games...and other things :LOL ...just like we used to!!!

CIO could have happend because I kept reading that 10 month olds are SUPPOSED to take 2 or 3 naps. I wasn't ready for him to nap only once. I learned a big lesson with that one.

amy

[nankilicious]

I think some people just arent interested in following baby's cues. They dont think babies can be trusted to know what they need, they themselves dont trust their ideas on what babies need, and everyone is afraid of children getting "Spoiled" or being manipulative or whatever. So they CIO. and use feeding schedules. and use pacifiers. and train children to sleep alone, be "good" etc.

Also, if you yourself arent getting any sleep, you start thinking weird things, second guessing yourself, being cranky, etc...

Soo, even people who wouldnt normally consider CIO methods start wondering if everyone wouldnt be better off if they just tried it..

No doubt about it, parenting is hard. And nighttime parenting is really hard.
For me, I have really had to let go sometimes of my notion of bedtime, get unattached to certain plans I made...etc...and go with the flow. I do SAHM, though, and right now we only have one baby...I can only imagine the logistics getting increasing difficult once you add in more kids, and workplace responsibilities.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by nankilicious

I can only imagine the logistics getting increasing difficult once you add in more kids, and workplace responsibilities.

I remember literally stumbling through my first three months back at work with ds. He was only six months old, and was still b/f during the night. I was only getting about five hours sleep a night. But, he eventually slept longer periods and stopped nursing so much at night...things get easier eventually. That's all I keep telling myself. (I'm too tired again...baby-under-construction doesn't let me get a really good nights sleep very often. I just keep reminding myself that it's only another two months, and well worth it!!)

[IncaMama]

i gotta be honest, there are some benefits i've seen in the kids whose parents did CIO with them. when it's naptime, the parents just put 'em in the crib and walk away. and don't go back for 2-3 hours and the kids sleep basically the whole time. and when the clock strikes 7:30 or 8pm the parents put 'em in the crib and walk away and they stay asleep until 7:30 or 8am the next day. HELLO! that would be SAWEET! the actual SLEEPING results can be awesome, i gotta admit. not always, of course, but sometimes...could be reeeeeally nice.

BUT...there are also drawbacks...lots of 'em...loss of trust, lower cuddliness, lower flexibility when in a new environment, etc...and even though there are days and nights when i'm wanting to pull my fingernails out because he's not napping or going to sleep and i'm on my laste nerve...i wouldn't give up those other things for the world.

I had a great conversation with DH this afternoon after we watched Meet The Fockers (has anybody seen this?? there's a LOT on CIO/Ferberizing vs Co-Sleeping/bfing/AP-type parenting) and we both agree that we are so proud of the way we have chosen to parent. It's frustrating sometimes, as we all know LOL, but my goodness what a great payoff.

DH falls asleep with his sweet angel's arms tucked under him and i can smell his sweet smell in the air...he nurses more than i'd like in the middle of the night, but the sound of his breathing in my ear makes me so relaxed and so in love i forget about the nipple soreness (i'm preggo) and drift off to sleep with my baby boy in my arms. and i don't want it to end.

but like i said...there are times when i talk to my friends and hear about their "bedtime" experiences and i'm GREEN with envy...so...i do understand why it's an attractive option sometimes. i just thank goodness that i've been able to fight through those moments of temptation and realized the greater goal here...and run to him to snuggle him in my arms.