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So how do we help woh AND sah familes survive *happily*? - Page 2

post #21 of 60
Is there a tax break for daycare? I don't know anything about this, but if there is, I think maybe the issue is that aren't SAH moms providing daycare for our children, so shouldn't we qualify for some sort of tax break on our joint tax returns with our dp? Not sure if that is what is meant, but maybe this is one of those issues that need to be addressed by all moms, sah and woh. I was wondering if this has been X-posted where woh moms would see it and offer ideas as well? I hope so!
post #22 of 60
I think (and tax savvy mamas feel free to correct me here) that in the U.S., one can set aside money for child-care in some sort of pre-tax account. I think that what it means is that if you choose this option, a certain amount of your paycheck is deposited every month in this account and that account is what you use to pay childcare costs. That money is not taxed in the same way that the rest of one's earnings are. I'm not sure if it is tax-free or just calculated differently, however. The downside (according to my dear wohm friend) is that if you put more money into the child-care account than you actually end up needing by the end of the tax-year, you don't get it back.

Any tax mamas want to help me clarify this? Am I mostly right about the structure?

I think that this is great for working families. Does this mean that I think that sahms shouldn't get some sort of tax break too? Not at all. (Wow, what was that...a quadruple negative?) What I mean is that I don't believe that help (economic or social) for one kind of family has to come at the expense of another type of family.

I don't believe in the idea that if I can't get a tax-break as a sahm...then by golly noone else should either. The child-care tax credit (or whatever it is called) is a good start...now perhaps it needs to be expanded to include sahps as well.
post #23 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
You still haven't explained how money from the government for better childcare is given at the expense of families with a parent that stay at home. That is the same money that is used for roads that you may or may not use, schools that you may or may not send your kids to, and all kinds of things that don't affect you directly.

I don't see your point at all.

I have to confess that I'm confused as well by the specific example offered. My2girlsmama, what is it that the government offering two-income families that you object to? Is it a deduction of some childcare expenses? Subsidy of childcare expenses? Some other thing?

And why is it you object to the program, whatever it is? Is it that you object to your tax dollars being used for things that you either don't approve of or that you don't take advantage of? I get the former (since it makes me hopping mad that my taxes fund a war I don't agree with) and believe the latter makes a weaker case. In either case, how is the program's existence harming single-income/two-parent families? What is the impact on single-income/single-parent families?
post #24 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemoon

I don't believe in the idea that if I can't get a tax-break as a sahm...then by golly noone else should either. The child-care tax credit (or whatever it is called) is a good start...now perhaps it needs to be expanded to include sahps as well.
very good
post #25 of 60

un

subscribing now
post #26 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemoon
I don't believe in the idea that if I can't get a tax-break as a sahm...then by golly noone else should either. The child-care tax credit (or whatever it is called) is a good start...now perhaps it needs to be expanded to include sahps as well.
Thinking out loud here...

How would you feel about eliminating the child care pre-tax accounts and the child care tax credit/deduction/whatever and whatever it is going on in Canada - that I'm still not clear on - and replacing it with a simple expansion of the per-child deduction or some kind of tax credit per child?
post #27 of 60
im ALL for childcare funding.. finally...

not everyone can SAHM.. thats the reality... and some ppl dont want to SAHM... and not all daycares are evil... i think they need to definately give more money to daycares to help them.. so they can give the best care for these children who are there..

when both sides can stop judging each other and work together that would be great.. heck i would love to find an AP mama to send dd to for the summer to be taken care of.. and my dd is too old for childcare so she stays with my aunt... my dd has been in daycare.. and shes sorta normal (she is my kid u know) :LOL
post #28 of 60
Canada Child Tax Benefit has nothing to do with WOHM or SAHM it depends on income and family size.. its meant to help low-middle income families offset the costs to raise kids...

is that what u guys are talkin bout.. cuz im lost.. and tired.. :LOL
post #29 of 60
I just want to clarify, I don't really know what we're talking about :LOL , but theoretically it there was some type of tax credit or nontaxed income for daycare, I would in no way shape or form want that taken away from woh mamas. Daycare is expensive, and hard to come by. All I was wondering was if there was a way to expand something like that for mamas that sah? You know we all pay mega bucks in our own way, either with income or lack of income, but I think we would all agree the priviledge of having children is worth it.
post #30 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricia80
Canada Child Tax Benefit has nothing to do with WOHM or SAHM it depends on income and family size.. its meant to help low-middle income families offset the costs to raise kids...

is that what u guys are talkin bout.. cuz im lost.. and tired.. :LOL
I don't think that's what we're talking about, but I'm not sure. It doesn't sound like it, though, because whatever it is, my2girlsmama believes it to be something offered to two-income families at the expense of one-income/two-parent families but she hasn't been back yet to tell us what program it is that she doesn't like. The tax thing you're talking about sounds like it's offered on a per-child basis and has nothing to do at all with the parents' activities paid-employment-wise.

But then again, I'm tired, too. And until we find out what the ostensibly offending program is there's not much more to discuss.
post #31 of 60
If this devolves into a debate it will be closed and will be another strike against the SAHM forum becoming permanent. Just an FYI.
post #32 of 60
Is it in danger of becoming a debate? I thought it was rather civilized brainstorming for the most part....am I missing something? (I'm not being snarky here, I don't want to harm the chances of SAHMing surviving and I certainly hope that nothing I've posted violates the intent of this forum )
post #33 of 60
Wow. I'm so uneducated about my own country (Canada.) The child tax benefit (like a pp said,) has nothing to do with whether a family has working or SAH parents. It does depend on income, but I was under the impression that EVERYONE got a basic amount regardless of income. (I get the max. so I'm not sure.)

I'm pretty sure the op was referring to our government's daycare initiative which will supply more funds to assist families in receiving quality, affordable daycare services. In my community, it is next to impossible to find space in a daycare, especially if one has a child under 18 months of age or if one wants a part-time space. And for those who do find daycare for their child, it is very expensive (surprise!!) I fully support this initiative and think it can't be implemented soon enough. Children are being placed in unlicensed, overcrowded care facilities with few to little resources because many parents cannot afford or simply can't find adequate daycare for their children.

Providing a program for SAHP's is an entirely different topic.
post #34 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemoon
I think (and tax savvy mamas feel free to correct me here) that in the U.S., one can set aside money for child-care in some sort of pre-tax account. I think that what it means is that if you choose this option, a certain amount of your paycheck is deposited every month in this account and that account is what you use to pay childcare costs. That money is not taxed in the same way that the rest of one's earnings are. I'm not sure if it is tax-free or just calculated differently, however. The downside (according to my dear wohm friend) is that if you put more money into the child-care account than you actually end up needing by the end of the tax-year, you don't get it back.
You are correct. It is the same as the health care "flex spending account". In the USA, it is called the Dependent Care Account and can be used for the care of any depended reguardless of income level, or tax bracket. It works like this you deside on a $ amount for the year say, $1000 to go into the account. It is taken out of each paycheck tax free (pre-tax) and reduced your taxable gross income as well. You can ONLY used that money for the care of a legal dependent, not necessarily your child though. It could be for an aging parent or disabled brother as long as that person was legally your dependent. That and the pp was right if you do not use it you do not get it back.

The way it was billed was the goverments way to help parents/caregivers afford quality childcare and not be forced to settle for a "cheaper" less safe option.

It can also be used for preschool, private school tuition etc as far as I know, so that is a benefit usuable by a family with a SAHP.

I think that no matter what the families situation supporting their ability to survive and care for their children they WAY THEY NEED TO is important. I agree that supporting each other is the place to start.

Blessings,
N~
post #35 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaFae
You can ONLY used that money for the care of a legal dependent, not necessarily your child though. It could be for an aging parent or disabled brother as long as that person was legally your dependent.

The way it was billed was the goverments way to help parents/caregivers afford quality childcare and not be forced to settle for a "cheaper" less safe option.

It can also be used for preschool, private school tuition etc as far as I know, so that is a benefit usuable by a family with a SAHP.

I think that no matter what the families situation supporting their ability to survive and care for their children they WAY THEY NEED TO is important. I agree that supporting each other is the place to start.

Blessings,
N~
Ahah! I'm glad to know that I wasn't too far off. I didn't know, however about the aging parent thing or the pre-school/tuition portions. Anybody have any ideas about expanding this program or adding to it to help it benefit SAHP families more? (Without, of course decreasing what is available to WOHP families?)

What if a family who doesn't use it for childcare etc. could set aside an equal amount of money per year in a similar account to be used to pay utilities/car payments etc. to help offset the cost of one parent staying at home? Would that be too hard to regulate? I'm not sure about the nuts and bolts. Any other ideas?
post #36 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemoon
What if a family who doesn't use it for childcare etc. could set aside an equal amount of money per year in a similar account to be used to pay utilities/car payments etc. to help offset the cost of one parent staying at home? Would that be too hard to regulate? I'm not sure about the nuts and bolts. Any other ideas?

I'm not sure that having separate but equal accounts would work well or achieve the desire fairness. What if I go back to work, but am in possession of one of the "non-childcare" accounts, what then? Or someone with a childcare account decides to stay home for a bit?

That's why I like the idea better of just saying, "o.k. you get $X per kid that you can use in whatever way makes sense to you in the raising of that kid." So you've got this money and if you want to use it for full time daycare, or part-time preschool or band camp or braces or soccer cleats or HMO co-pays or to rent a larger apartment or buy more organic then there you go - people can spend that money according to their own personal needs and values.

I'm not sure how it could/should work, though. Through tax returns? A check paid on the child's birthday for that year? And I haven't thought through how long it should be paid - maybe for the first five years? Or ten?

The one thing that I'd worry about, though, is the level of oversight that a government might want in exchange for the money. We've seen in the US how much people go through justifying non-vax or homeschooling or whatever when they go through the process for WIC and/or food stamps or whatever. Can you imagine what they might try and get away with just because they were giving me, say, $1,000 on my kid's birthday? We'd have to build in safeguards somehow.
post #37 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by abac

Providing a program for SAHP's is an entirely different topic.

Yeah, I think you're right. The daycare initiative sounds great and something that's very much needed here in the US, too. It would be nice if some money could also be directed into community-based programs for at-home parents - maybe a high-quality drop-in care for emergencies (like doctor's appts., etc.) and good, well-equipped play group situations, emergency grants for when the primary earner misses shifts, commissions or whatever.

What's the angle on daycare initiative being harmful to single-income/two-parent families? I'm still not clear on this.
post #38 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemoon
Is it in danger of becoming a debate? I thought it was rather civilized brainstorming for the most part....am I missing something? (I'm not being snarky here, I don't want to harm the chances of SAHMing surviving and I certainly hope that nothing I've posted violates the intent of this forum )
Civilized so far (and you are fine!). I could just see how it could easily slide that way, so I wanted to remind everyone. I want the SAHM forum to stay open.
post #39 of 60
I might of missed this too. I haven't seen anyone even hint that a daycare initiative would hurt sahm's. Maybe it was edited or something? Anyway, I think the idea of a higher child tax credit for all parents, but I think that someone said that the amount that you recieve for that depends on your income, so that might actually leave less for woh parents cause most likely their income would be higher. So maybe it would have to be equal across the board without taking income into account. Would that work? Hmmm, I hadn't thought about the control the government could exert through that though, definate safeguards would be mportant.
post #40 of 60
Just a guess here, but I think the link to *hitting* one income/2 parent families is the way its taxed out. A family income of say, $40,000 is taxed higher on a one income family than it is for a 2 income family. For instance, if dh made $40,000 a year and I samp, than we would be bumped into the next tax bracket b/c we make *so* much. But, if we each made $20,000 we would be considered in the lower tax bracket, even though we still have the same mortgage, amount of kids, etc.

Being 2 income, we would also be able to deduct child care expenses - but then being 1 income, we wouldnt have to pay childcare either. So technically, those cancel each other out.

Therefore, I guess thats where I would see a link. Sorta.

I think affordable and safe daycare is a wonderful idea. I'd like to see some daycares with more flexible hours as well. Not just m-f 9-5.

I used to be very angry at the childcare initiative, I see now it doesnt have to be either/or. Lets fight together, right?

I'll fight for better/affordable daycare with you and you fight for better taxing with me.

Wow, a pp said what a force that would be......sooooo true.......
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