The Eczema Tribe - Page 9

[sun-shine01]

New Here posting with questions -

11 week old ds was DX'd with eczema last week - rash covering most of his body. The dermatologists prescribed Derasmoothe oil to get it under control and Mimyx cream for maintenance.

know eczema is caused by an allergy and I've recently read that babies with food allergies have a red ring around their anus. My ds does not have this so does that mean that his is likely not a food allergy but other - pet, environment, etc.? I started Dr. Sears Elim Diet on Monday and I'm wondering if it's necessary if he does not have the "red ring" and that I should concentrate on other allergens.

Does/did anyone elses child have eczema covering their whole body? Did the patches come and go (back to baby soft skin) or does it just stay sandpaper like?

From spending most of the last few days researching, my plan of attck is below - can you advise, add, comment on anything that you think might help.


vitamin A (mycelized vitamin A drops, 5000 IU, 1 drop a day)
Evening Primrose Oil (1 500mg capsule, squeezed, twice a day)
Cod Liver Oil (1/2 tsp, twice a day)
Baby probotics as per bottle dosage
Coating with Eucerin twice a day (morn and after nightly RINSE)
Him sleeping with mittens to reduce face scratching
Him wearing all cotton clothing, sheets, etc.

Thanks for any info.

Edited to say started Elim diet on Monday - rather than Starting next Monday.

[circlemama]

My dd never had a red ring around her anus, just cried and had splotches of eczema. She is now 3 1/2 and allergic to peanuts, sesame and eggs, and sensitive to dairy and tomatoes. Be careful about he CLO, some kids are sensitive/allergic to fish. I am curious why the elimination isn't started right away. It takes 3-5 days for most foods to be out of the system, however, dairy can take up to 90 days to clear out.

[KestrelDream]

Does/did anyone elses child have eczema covering their whole body?

Here! My DS just saw the Dr because it was so bad. Dr. labled it "severe" even though it's not weeping. He prescribed topicort, & also gave me a referral to a dermatologist. Gotta run, baby crying!

[delfuego]

Thanks for this tribe... I've been lurking in the allergies forum for awhile soaking up the info and trying what felt appropriate.

Okay, so I have not yet read through the entire list of eczema stories and cures that people have found but here's mine:

My Darius started getting eczema when he was 2 weeks old, about the same time he also started getting cradle cap, colicky and developed a severe diaper rash (there were open sores all round his little bum hole). The doctor told me that he had baby acne, that the cradle cap and the colic would go away eventually and gave me an antifungal for the diaper rash. The eczema (not baby acne) got worse, so did the colic and the cream didn't help his little bootie at all. I gave up all cow's milk products and but breast milk on his butt... the rash went away and so did the colic... the eczema got better but didn't go away. His dr. gave me a steroid for his eczema which was all over his face, legs and arms. I used it for ten days and when I stopped the eczema came right back. I continued to use it a little bit on really bad patches until I found Florasone... which seems to help but is not a cure.

The things that I think exacerbate it are: dairy, eggs, tomatoes, and oranges. I've given up all these but he still gets eczema now on his chest and face, especially his cheeks. His cradle cap is now basically gone... when it comes back I rub down his head with olive oil. I bath him every other day with natural baby shampoo, don't use soap and cover him in Aquaphor right after the bath and every morning.

A few weeks ago he had a bad flareup so I started using the steroid on him again. It started to go down but then he (and I) developed thrush and the eczema came back even when I was using the drugs. I took him to an herbalist who gave me chloraphil (for me and for him), homeopathic eczema drops (for him), a homeopathic skin detox (I take it), as well as a gentle cleanse (for me). I'm now taking all these in addition to probiotics, betaine, vitamin c, garlic and a whole-food multi vitamin supplement. I feel like I'm leaving something out from the list of pills.

I also avoided wheat, yeast and as much sugar as I could... but my will is weak... until his thrush went away. Then, a miracle, his eczema cleared up... but the other day it came back and he's starting to get a diaper rash. I'm heartbroken. I think I need to steer clear of wheat and yeast again. I think he has a yeast imbalance which all the problems are related to. The real problem is beer... I love dark beer and it's good for my breast milk production. I don't drink much, three or four a week, but I think I have to give it up.

Sorry for taking up so much space and time. Love you all and thanks for being here.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by sun-shine01

vitamin A (mycelized vitamin A drops, 5000 IU, 1 drop a day)

Can you link me to info on above. I'm not familiar with it and want to make sure it's not the chemical form of A. Which kind of CLO are you doing? You need to check the dosage of A & D vitamins to make sure it's not too much or too little.

DelFuego, sounds just like my DS!

[JaneS]

Red ring around anus is not food allergies necessarily ... can be yeast/bacteria. Intestinal flora imbalance.

This is so common it's ridiculous drs don't get a clue! I knew this myself when it happened to DS (b/c I also had thrush while bf'ing and more digestive issues than usual) and both my Ped and ND poo-poo'd it.

OH wait, the intestinal flora... which is the cornerstone of our immune and digestive system, functions like another organ, and we would DIE if it was totally wiped out... is ignored by mainstream doctors. Yeah, okay.

[delfuego]

JaneS... i've read alot of your posts in the allergy forum... esp "not sure if allergies really are allergies" thread.

i'm trying alot of different things for ds so it's hard to say what's working and what's not. have you found any one thing that stands out as a trigger or a remedy? do you also suspect, as i do, that your ds's eczema is a yeast issue?

thanks for all your info and for being such an awesome mama!

[delfuego]

ok so i just checked out your cheat sheet. so much great info! thanks!

[JaneS]

Yes, I do suspect it's yeast/bacteria or both. They release toxins, including volatile fatty acids which raises intestinal acidity. Maybe the toxins are what provokes a histamine response I don't know for sure. But he had enough flares and concurrent poopy symptoms that it was just so very obvious. It all started with giving him rice cereal as his first food. Yeast diaper rash from hell that our Ped said wasn't yeast. My nipples told me differently however.

Our story is linked on the Healing the Gut Tribe second page as part of the Roll Call this month.

He's had one stool test a year ago that shows bad bacteria dominant... klebsiella, citrobacter and proteus. We are now waiting for another. But the gut flora is constantly changing and stool tests are notoriously skewed.

Surprisingly his eczema has been excellent, just the tops of his feet, his hot spots, flare every once in a while (again, correlated with diarrhea and sleep issues, etc etc.) I attribute the skin staying stable to the continued use of cod liver and evening primrose oil.

[KestrelDream]

I'm feeling so overwhelmed! Not only does my son have severe eczema, but thrush too....it really is all connected, isn't it?? I'm pretty sure I have yeast overgrowth too. Jadon is on nystatin, I've been using gentian violet, & two different probiotics. I'll get my finger wet & feed some probiotics to Jadon too....he is exclusively BF. I'm worried that my diet is a factor...if I have to eliminate certain foods, I think I'm going to starve!! I love my granola cereal with soy milk...I love scrambled eggs...I love ice cream....I love cheese!! Wahhhhh! Oh, & I love my peanut butter. I really hope his clears up without me having to sacrifice too much.

There is so much good info here, but it really is overwhelming me. I don't know what to start with!! I bought some flax seed oil tonight. Maybe that'll do some good too...I'm rambling now....I just want my baby boy's beautiful skin back!!

[bonberi]

yeast at the root of eczema

Isn't it 'funny' how so many of us independently conclude that yeast is involved in our dc's eczema? And how our health practitioners poo-poo it? The most angry I have been in recent memory was sitting in our (ex-) homeopath's office and asking him to discuss the involvement of yeast, as Rosie's eczema cleared up BEAUTIFULLY when I treated us both (gentian violet on my nipples, no sugars and grapefruit seed extract for me). He basically told me I was being ridiculous, that the issue was a genetic predisposition for E (both myself and dh have it), and that "when there's an elephant in the room, you don't say 'oh, look, a mouse!'".
Grrrr.

[delfuego]

yes it is 'funny'. my 'holistic pediatrician' just told me last week that the yeast thing hadn't been "proven". i believe there are alot of modern medical practices that haven't been "proven" but this particular theory makes alot of sense especially when we are all seeing the same thing over and over and when dietary changes help so much. the diet thing is hard and maybe that's why so many people are willing to just say "babies get eczema." on top of all the other changes that being a new mom brings i've had to completely relearn how to prepare food and what to eat. i really miss my comfort foods and i often cheat.

JaneS... you said that your ds's eczema seemed to be related to sleeping problems? how so? my darius has always had a difficult time getting to sleep... it seems that he just has a really hard time shutting down his active little brain... even when he's so sleepy i can see it in his eyes.

i put some butt paste on ds's face last night and this morning all the red was gone, i could still feel the rough patches but they seemed to bother him much less. duh... zinc is good for skin.

[delfuego]

btw... has anyone read "The PH Miracle"? it often sounds like an infomercial and there's no way i could have as strict a diet as their prescribing but i've incorporated alot of their suggestions into my diet. it seems to not only have helped ds's skin but i have alot more energy and don't get headaches so much anymore.

[JaneS]

Probiotics, antibiotics, yeast and eczema.

The gut flora of healthy individuals is very stable (Sears et al., 1950,19-%); this stability may in part be due to interbacterial inhibition (Sprunt and Redman, 1968). Alteration in the level of normal flora by antibiotics has long been known to allow secondary infection by pathogenic bacteria and yeasts (Keefer, 1951; Seelig, 1966).

Occasional publications describe abnormal fecal flora in patients with atopic eczema. Kuvaeva et al. (1984) studied 60 infants in Moscow with IgE mediated food allergy and eczema. They reported a decrease in anaerobic bacteria and lactic acid-producing aerobes and an increase of Enterobacteriaceae. Severity of eczema was directly proportional to severity of dysbiosis. No control data are given. Ionescu et al. (1986) studied fecal flora in children and adults with atopic eczema. Compared with healthy controls, there was a marked reduction in Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium and Enteroccoccus species in the great majority of cases. This was associated with increased concentrations of Candida species, Proteus, Klebsiella, and Staphylococcus allreus, and appearance of atypical coliforms and Clostridium innocutan.. The high frequency of hypoalbumenernia, indicanuria and steatorrhea in the eczema group suggested small bowel bacterial overgrowth with secondary malabsorption. In neither of these studies is it possible to determine whether abnormal bowel flora caused allergy or whether food-allergic disease destabilized gut flora.

http://mdheal.org/microbes.htm

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by delfuego

btw... has anyone read "The PH Miracle"? it often sounds like an infomercial and there's no way i could have as strict a diet as their prescribing but i've incorporated alot of their suggestions into my diet. it seems to not only have helped ds's skin but i have alot more energy and don't get headaches so much anymore.

Interesting that you mention this right now... I've determined that DS has an acid imbalance but have just started looking into it.

What are you doing?

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by delfuego

JaneS... you said that your ds's eczema seemed to be related to sleeping problems? how so? my darius has always had a difficult time getting to sleep... it seems that he just has a really hard time shutting down his active little brain... even when he's so sleepy i can see it in his eyes.

i put some butt paste on ds's face last night and this morning all the red was gone, i could still feel the rough patches but they seemed to bother him much less. duh... zinc is good for skin.

I've done the butt paste thing on DS's feet when he was little and had it really bad!

It's his gut dysbiosis that is related to the sleeping problems.

I've done a lot of reading about the gut-brain connection... the gut produces the neurotrasmitters, makes perfect sense. Yeast and bacteria produce alcohol like toxins and volatile fatty acids. Ever drink too much and have very interrupted sleep?

If foods are not being broken down properly, the peptides can create opiate like compounds (gluten and dairy peptides are well studied in the ASD community) which effect behavior, like kids get high off them and them have a crash.

Personally I experienced it too ... horrible insomnia, buzzing anxiety, couldn't fall asleep/shut my brain off. Woke during night and stayed awake. All related to digestion... to fermentable foods such as grains, potatoes, corn, sugar that I wasn't digesting properly and they were feeding the bad gut bugs. I understand the issue with my DS only too well. Sadly, I was able to heal myself but DS is still being a tough nut to crack.

Right now we are awaiting stool tests from Great Smokies with a holistic Ped that will probably px herbs. And doing homeopathy. In addition to diet, the SCD, that worked with me but not with him.

[KestrelDream]

Jane,

You are heaven-sent....my mind is whirling with all this awesome info you are providing....wow...a gut-brain connection?? Off to look at that too!!

[JaneS]

thank you.

The 2 best books I've found on the gut brain issues relating to food and digestion are:

"Breaking the Vicious Cycle"
www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

"Enzymes for Autism" or "Enzymes for Digestive Health" (they are both the same)
www.enzymestuff.com

Lots of info on their sites too. Let me know if you find anything else interesting.

There's another thread on this here at MDC but I cannot find now b/c apparently "gut" is too small a word for the search function. :

[JaneS]

The Gut-Brain Connection
Recent studies show that functional GI symptoms are not necessarily the result of dysfunction in the bowel, but may be due to disturbances in brain-gut pathways.
By Harvard Health Reports

http://www.bhg.com/bhg/story.jhtml?s...catref=bcat143

Emotions
It's no secret. Emotions often find their outlet in the gut. Nerves, stresses, emotional upsets, mental problems, and other psychological factors can wreak havoc with the GI tract. That's because the brain and the gastrointestinal system are intimately connected.

The entire journey of food through the 30-foot-long digestive tract is quarterbacked by a remarkable communication network known as the enteric nervous system (ENS). This intricate nerve complex is located in the gut wall and communicates with the brain via the spinal cord. In turn, hormones, neurotransmitters, and connections to the central nervous system that affect muscle, mucosa, and blood vessels in the digestive tract influence the ENS.

The ENS communicates with the brain, first via the sympathetic nerves that pass to and from the gut through transformers called sympathetic ganglia. These nerves connect to the spinal cord and then to the base of the brain. In addition, parasympathetic nerves link to the base of the brain via the vagus nerve from the upper gut or the sacral nerves from the colon. The gut and brain use neurotransmitters to send electrochemical messages to one another by way of these nerves. Scientists say that this complex, sophisticated "gut-brain" system is nearly the equal of the body's central nervous system.

Recent imaging studies of the brain show that functional GI symptoms are not necessarily the result of dysfunction in the bowel, but may be due to disturbances in brain-gut pathways that alter pain thresholds, control movement through and contractions of the GI tract, and influence behavior. [Jane note: except that what is or is not produced in a malfunctioning bowel produces the raw materials for the brain.]

We know that the brain has a direct effect on the stomach if only because the thought of eating can set off the stomach's appetite juices even before food gets there. But the action goes both ways. A troubled intestine can send signals to the brain just as a troubled brain can send signals to the gut. A patient's distressed gut might, therefore, be as much the cause as the product of depression.

[cobluegirl]

wow Jane..keep the info coming....wish you were close and I could pick your brain face to face..hehe...