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Alfie Kohn on "Supernanny" - Page 9

post #161 of 227
Originally Posted by tashile
I never made a sweeping statement that not punishing is what fills prisons. Lack of discipline, however, is a key factor in this phenomenon
So, what are we talking about here? Did you notice this forum is called "Gentle Discipline "? Not, "Look the other way while your child roams the streets".
Have you really looked around this forum? Because I think you'll find that there are many other books/authors that get attention much the same as Kohn. He's just got a fairly new book out so there's gonna be more talk about him right now.
post #162 of 227
post #163 of 227
Gentle Discpline does not mean no discipline, and I don't even like most of Kohn's stuff, but I still disagree with almost everything tashile has said.
post #164 of 227
Dude. There are approximately 5 posts either directly quoting or linking to that exact thing!

My heavens...

So, what should his punishment be for not paying attention? Or realizing the severity of our words? Or not obeying us--b/c we have been here longer and are wiser? Oh, the possibilities abound. Anyone have their Wheel handy, that might help us come up with something good.
post #165 of 227
Once again, i am responding to trollish postings. i am incurable, I suppose.

How about, if your toddler is running towards traffic, instead of grabbing him and smacking his little butt, you scoop him safely into your arms and cry "Oh, sweetie!! I was so scared you'd be hurt!" I think one's tears would have as great, or greater, an impact as a slap, but would more honesty express your feelings. So instead of thinking, "My Daddy hit me because i was bad" then think the truth- "My Daddy was so scared I'd get hurt. I don;t want to get hurt!"

What kind of horrible person beats on a kid who was just almost killed?
This 'safety' and 'running into the traffic' justification for hitting is just *so* tired already. Your kid is in danger, you swoop him into safety and tell him why you did. What is so dang hard about that?

I know batters of children would prefer to believe that those of us to do not hit our children are raising 'brats', but the statistics of those is prison, on drugs, as well as those who simply avoid their parents as adults, tell a different story.

Some folks simply can't face that respect begets respect. It would mess up your whole mindset about war and stuff.
post #166 of 227
post #167 of 227
Originally Posted by monkey's mom
Dude. There are approximately 5 posts either directly quoting or linking to that exact thing!
Actually geek that I am, I just counted. It was 15 posts that explained Mothering's stance on physical discipline and the rules of discussion.
post #168 of 227
I had an avacado and cheese sandwich for lunch today.
post #169 of 227
snerk! 15, huh? that's awesome!! must be some kind of record.
post #170 of 227
post #171 of 227
I had a bagel with smoked salmon.
post #172 of 227
post #173 of 227
Originally Posted by tashile
In my first example of being hit by a car, a parent doesn't have time to bring out diagrams and charts to explain why being hit by a car is not a good thing.

By what your telling me, I should respect my child's rights and feeling to stand in the middle of the road without giving her a justified explanation of why she should move.

On a daily basis, my wife and I talk to our daughter and explain why certain behaviors are bad. In an emergent or important situation there is not always time.
That is not at all what I am telling you. I'm saying grab your child out of the road and then give her the justified explanation of why she can't stand there rather than spanking her. What does spanking teach her in that scenario other than that when you are scared you hit her?

Oh and btw both my younger brothers were juvenile delinquints despite being regularly "disciplined" just as you would recommend.
post #174 of 227
this morning I had an apple with some peanut butter.
post #175 of 227
Originally Posted by Pigpen
I was punished as a child and it made me; a. sneaky, b. mad at my parents, c. want to hit my little brother, d. jealous of my friend whose parents "just talked" to her. Being punished NEVER made me reflect on what I had done. It always made me wish I could do worse things to my parents.
Yes to all of this but especially the bold portion.
post #176 of 227
Tashile, as an example about the street incident.. I taught my child since he could walk to stop and wait and hold my hand near a street. He's 23 months now and stops instinctively by the street (it has also become a habit) and proceeds with caution and watches for cars.

About a month ago I asked him what he thought would happen if a car hit us. He looked at me with a very serious face and solemnly, "Ow." That's the word he knows for hurt.

I don't only explain, but teach actively and myself set an example of reverence for the road. My son also knows to look left and right for cars and I ask him if it's safe to cross. It's actually been fun!

When it comes to statistics, anyone can use the data to support his/her beliefs.. yes, including Kohn. It's a matter of the heart and what you believe is right with your conscience.

I'm an aspiring psychologist and have read multiple books on the subject and have a minor in the field. I'm planning on going back to school to get my Master's degree.. or doctoral, not sure yet. In any case, here's a link to a research paper done that I like to use to support my beliefs

post #177 of 227
Sadie....share with me! I am hungry!!!
post #178 of 227
Dinner was grilled tempeh and pasta.
post #179 of 227
oooh, yum. I'm going to a movie tonight, so dinner might just be popcorn

post #180 of 227
Funny how I never ONCE had to hit my now 6-yo to teach him to stay out of the street. Funny how my toddler is now learning the exact same thing (as well as avoiding hot things like BBQ grills) without ever ONCE being hit either. ETA: or otherwise punished.

Now you're going to backpedal and imply that my kids must somehow not represent the norm, but I guarantee you there are dozens and dozens of parents here who will tell you the exact. Same. Thing. about their kids.

What was that phrase I read a while back? Oh yes. "I appreciate your effort to bring a different viewpoint to this discussion. Next time please try to ensure it is one grounded in reality."
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