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the issue of infant carseats in our country - Page 6

post #101 of 188
I grew up in the 60's and cars didn't come with seatbelts at the time. My mother's uncle was a NYC police officer who had seat belts installed in my mom's car as a gift because he was "tired of scraping babies off windshields". (I didn't hear that comment at the time, of course, and only found out about it a few years ago from my mom.) When my first child was born in 1990, I guess I was indoctrinated or something, I had her in a car seat (although looking back on it, it probably wasn't all that safe compared to what's available now). My ex got upset with me that I wouldn't let him hold her while I drove, but I guess I loved her more than I did him.

Dh's brother would have been 40 this year but he didn't even make it to his first birthday. He was lying on the floor of the front seat while his mother drove, and was killed when she fell asleep and drove off the road. Dh was four and riding in the backseat unrestrained; he had his leg ripped off (it was hanging on by a tendon and they managed to reattach it .) SIL (then age 3) was in the back too and she was injured, I don't know what injury exactly because dh does not remember and I'm not going to ask her. She's never sober enough to actually converse with, anyway. Their mom died a few years later, of cancer, but IMO it was caused by grief and guilt.

I liked Shannon's analogy. People drink and drive all the time and survive it, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do it. Absolutely the same thing for driving with the baby not in the carseat. I can't see how living in another country or another culture would make it easier to lose your child in a tragedy that could have been prevented.
post #102 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice
Did you read what I wrote about the lap belts that were in cars until 1989. You and I survived those also.
We did survive them. In my case it's due to the fact that I was not in any accidents as a child.


I wanted to add also, that although my first two dc's loved the carseats and fell asleep in them almost immediately, little ds (now four) screamed most of the time he was in his carseat until we turned him around (when he was over a year old.) That was a pretty long year. I dreaded going anywhere in the car with him because he was so unhappy. Sometimes he would be OK if everyone in the car sang really loud but you could never, never stop. We didn't go in the car any more than we had to, but there were times we couldn't avoid it, and at those times he cried a lot lot lot. I'd pull over and nurse him as often as I could, but it didn't really matter b/c as soon as I put him back in the car he'd be crying again. I've never had an accident with any of my (or anyone's) kids in the car but have had near misses and scary moments, you really just never know.
post #103 of 188
And I think carseats in school buses would be a good idea. Even though as a pp mentioned (several pages back), buses are safer than cars for many reasons. When I was a school bus driver I asked the boss about why they didn't make the kids wear seatbelts in buses, and he explained that the bus drivers didn't want it because they couldn't enforce it and didn't want to be held liable, so they lobbied the state legislature and kept school buses from being included in the law.
post #104 of 188
interesting discussion. i understand that it can be just awful to hear a baby crying and want to pick her up and not be able to. it's unnatural, really! but so are cars. think how long humans have been on this planet and how long cars have been around. even just 75 or 100 years ago cars weren't everywhere like they are now in the US. if you're going to be in an unnatural and dangerous contraption like a car i think it's only responsible to take all the safety precautions you can. i have nursed while buckled in myself and with dd2 in the carseat. i felt a little worried about it, though, but hoped my seatbelt would protect us. my carseat says not to feed with a bottle in the car. maybe because that also would be a projectile?
post #105 of 188
wow.


just, wow.



well. they're your babies.

i would think that anyone who practices attachment parenting would necessarily place children's lives higher than children's comfort but hey, they're not my kids.
post #106 of 188
Applejuice, i'm really trying to figure out what on earth kind of point you're actually trying to make--that you're here typing, of course you survived it. There is a young man on my street who survived being hit by a train--but I really don't see him recomending it as a good practice because "afterall...he survived it didn't he???" My grandfather survived having a huge farm tractor roll over on him, fracturing his back in 5 spaces, again, he doesn't recomend it as a fun trick just cause he survived it.
Are you not getting it that the people who didn't survive it aren't alive anymore and therefore have trouble making that point over the internet???? I mean this isn't rocket science--of course you survived it, that doesn't mean it's right!

I tell you what, next week I have to teach a course on repelling from a helicopter with a dog in your arms (needless to say...I don't have many students) When I first started in search and rescue with my dogs we used to tether the dog and tether the human, but we didn't tether the 2 of them together. I lived through MANY jumps while I got my certification, a few of them close calls when I couldn't quite hang on to my 100 lb dog which would make him very dangerous to me if he swung and hit me. It was only about 7 yrs ago that our team said "this is stupid, it will take another 5 minutes to tether the dog to the human, which would make the jump and especially the landing safer. You're welcome to come take one of my courses, but for you, we'll do minimal restraints, after all, look how many people lived through a jump with minimal restraint!
post #107 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by klothos
wow.


just, wow.



well. they're your babies.

i would think that anyone who practices attachment parenting would necessarily place children's lives higher than children's comfort but hey, they're not my kids.
But Klothos, by doing it this way when the child dies you can proudly engrave on their headstone "At least we weren't cruel to him"
Isn't that what true attachment parenting is about??
post #108 of 188
Another mama chiming in to say I'm guilty, too.
post #109 of 188
Coming in late, but here is what I have done instead of take my baby out of the carseat in a moving car:

- Limit car trips. Don't force children to do things they do not want to do!
- Pull over and feed. And I mean really pull over, not just be stalled in traffic.
- If I could not pull over due to traffic or to there being no good place, the baby had to cry until I could find a place. I made sure to talk to her the whole time and tell her I was finding a place and would feed her very soon.
- If my older child was there, sometimes I'd bring a bottle of EBM and she would feed the baby.

The fact that other kinds of child abuse or risk-taking are OK doesn't make me feel OK about not using a carseat. ALL forms of child harm should be wrong, but I'm not going to say "Until circ is illegal, you can't make me use a carseat." Way to stick it to the man.
post #110 of 188
Thread Starter 
ok, apparently this discussion has taken a different turn.

Like I said before, I wasn't looking for your comments or critisism, I am secure in myself and think I am a wonderful mama and nothing any of you say will change that. I do use carseats, I think they are VERY important. The reason for my post was another. Klothos, I don't see a reason for your very rude post, since I never said I don't use carseats. The point I wanted to make and my question was what happened that made this such a big issue and why it's different between cultures. That's all I was wondering. I also wasn't asking for advice on what to do when my child is hungry and we are in the car, I think I'm doing a great job so thankyouverymuch.

I do thank the people that have posted that understood my question and tried to think beyond the judgements.
post #111 of 188
Well, I had a very close call yesterday which could have been a nasty accident. It was really scary, and we spun. All I was thinking was that my children could have been killed if we had flipped and they weren't buckled in carseats. And they even could have been hurt pretty bad just from us spinning if they hadn't been buckled in. I've never taken them out while the car is in motion. I'm just too paranoid I guess. But really, you never know when you could get into an accident. Things happen. I have nursed both of my babies while in the car too, but I kind of bend over their carseat. No, it's not comfy, but I don't like to stop every time they cry when on a long trip. Anyway, I'm not judging you at all, that's just my reason and it really was a reality check yesterday when we were in that close call.
post #112 of 188
Thread Starter 
oh my gaaawd can we stop it already with the scary stories?? I KNOW, I have BEEN in car crashes with my children in carseats and I KNOW that the carseats saved their lives.

For the last time, the purpose of this thread:

1) to discuss the reasons why we, humans, label each other and determine what right is and what wrong is, sometimes being wrong ourselves in the process.

2) to discuss the influence that society has on us, like for example, campaigns. How as americans we have stopped the smoking rates from going up because of our campaigns, or we have increased carseat use rates, etc...

that's all. all of us here, I'm sure, know the importance of carseats. Please!!
post #113 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218
Are you not getting it that the people who didn't survive it aren't alive anymore and therefore have trouble making that point over the internet???? I mean this isn't rocket science--of course you survived it, that doesn't mean it's right!
Please, there is really no need to insult my intelligence.

For the record, my DS2 IS a rocket scientist and can explain that better than you also.

I was answering the OP's questions and sharing the FACT that I was a mother before there was a law requiring carseats for little ones, and that I do recall how the practice over time became engrained into our culture.

I shared the FACT that not all carseats and seatbelts were entirely safe from the beginning and with modifications, new laws, new requirements, and time have changed.

The first carseat I bought in 1980 was not as sturdy as the one I bought in 1983; more changes were made by 1985 and the carsear I bought in 1992 revealed changes that were unbelieveable...!

I love my children and would never hurt them.
post #114 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice
HOw about school buses since in my state, children need to be in carseats until they are sixty pounds.

I was sixty pounds until I was nine years old. That would be fourth/fifth grade.
I think the issue of busses has already been addressed
post #115 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2
I think the issue of busses has already been addressed
Sorry, I'll just shut up.
post #116 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice

I was answering the OP's questions and sharing the FACT that I was a mother before there was a law requiring carseats for little ones, and that I do recall how the practice over time became engrained into our culture.
thank you so much for saying that. I guess not everyone understood my question and could get to the depth of what you're getting to. I find it interesting how we can engrain things into our cultures. I think it's a phenomemon that not many question. I question the motives, the reasons, why that and not the other, etc... if you think about it, it's such an interesting subject, the human mind is so complex and interesting.
post #117 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice
Sorry, I'll just shut up.
post #118 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
thank you so much for saying that. I guess not everyone understood my question and could get to the depth of what you're getting to. I find it interesting how we can engrain things into our cultures. I think it's a phenomemon that not many question. I question the motives, the reasons, why that and not the other, etc... if you think about it, it's such an interesting subject, the human mind is so complex and interesting.
ITA, and I am glad that I could help.

I recall my mom buying a car seat for my baby brother with a toy steering wheel attached in 1963. It was cute, but not very safe; it was actually straight up and high, but padded. She got it with her trading stamps (Blue Chip Stamps). It had a horn also that was very annoying.
post #119 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2
I think the issue of busses has already been addressed
What was your point in posting this anyway?
post #120 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
thank you so much for saying that. I guess not everyone understood my question and could get to the depth of what you're getting to. I find it interesting how we can engrain things into our cultures. I think it's a phenomemon that not many question. I question the motives, the reasons, why that and not the other, etc... if you think about it, it's such an interesting subject, the human mind is so complex and interesting.
I think, also though, that our culture itself has changed. I am not that old (29 next month) and when I was a child there were more small stores (so you didn't have to drive so far to the big ones) and many less cars on the roads. It just seems logical that cars would need to be made safer as we use them more.
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