the issue of infant carseats in our country - Page 3

[srain]

Originally Posted by mama2kyla

I am on a local AP list and was completely shocked when numerous moms confessed to not strapping their babies into carseats when they were crying because it was so "un-AP" and cruel.... They were letting their babies crawl around on the floor in the back.

I'd tell these folks that they should reconsider the car trip instead! I know it's sometimes necessary to ride in cars, but so many people tell me about how awful it was listening to their baby cry the whole ride to their playdate, or how they had to take their baby out of the seat to nurse on the way to a restaurant. Stay home instead!

(I haven't gotten out much since my six-month-old car-hater was born....)

[grisandole]

Never, ever, ever. I did nurse in the car (me in a seatbelt but not totally restrained properly, I did have to loosen it; ds in the carseat) a few times (maybe 3?) while we were in traffic while in the process of finding a safe place to pull over. Then I learned about my body potentially being a projectile in an accident and never did that again.

Anyway, I am super safe when it comes to cars and carseats. I feel that it's an issue that we as parents have some control over, so, why not keep the kids as safe as possible? I can't prevent a meteor from falling on my house, but I can make sure that my kids are properly restrained in a car.

Kristi

[CherryBomb]

Every single time a baby dies after being thrown out of a car, or being left in it in hot weather, or a kid shoots herself, or a million other preventable things, the parents start crying, "It was just for a minute," "we were only in town," "why us," etc, etc. I feel zero sympathy for those people. I'm sure that sounds callous, but I have nothing but anger for people who should know better (which is most Americans). My heart breaks for the babies and children, because they depend on us completely to keep them safe. Many areas are grey, but some are not. Carseats, imo, are one of those.

No one ever thinks it will happen to them. But we have thousands of children a year dying from those things, it has to happen to someone. Why not you?

One good thing I can say about Indiana is that come July, we're going to have some of the strictest child-restraint laws in the country.

NO ONE in my car is allowed to remove their seatbelt. My mother (of all people!) took hers off the other week to get something out of her pocket, and you should've heard my daughter go off on her! "Grandma, we do NOT take our seatbelts off when the car is moving. That is NOT safe!" And on and on. I take seatbelt safety seriously, and so does my daughter. If we couldn't pull over to feed her, she cried until we could. I'd much rather have a hungry and upset baby than a dead one with a full stomach.

It's hard to comment on cultural differences since I don't have an intimate knowledge of that, so I won't.

[luv my 2 sweeties]

We always pulled over and just figured feeding time into the driving schedule. Were there times the kid was screaming for a few minutes until we could get to a stopping place? Sure, but unstrapping him/her from the car seat was *not* an option in my mind for the reasons some pp's have related in horrible detail. I know some folks have brought up extreme circumstances such as traffic jams, but the OP stated that she did this often.

If you can't bf while the baby is restrained in the seat (I can't either), and you anticipate not being able to stop for feedings for some reason, then why not pack some EBM in a bottle? I know, I know, not all babies will take a bottle (including my ds), but many will. I'd at least try it. They sell little bottle warmers for the car if you find yourself in this situation frequently.

Bottom line, I just don't buy the justification for nursing a baby in a moving vehicle. So what if "other cultures" don't think it's so important? We know that it *is* important if you travel on US roads.

funny this comes up here...... I am on a local AP list and was completely shocked when numerous moms confessed to not strapping their babies into carseats when they were crying because it was so "un-AP" and cruel.

Mama2kyla, I had a similar experience. Not with a group of people, but with a woman I know IRL who is very AP, child-centered, etc. I was *shocked* to see her drive away from a playgroup with her very young children standing up in the back seat! I find it hard to get past that with her. We were never more than aquaintances, and it'll probably never go farther than that because I now have a hard time respecting her as a parent, KWIM? While I *highly* disagree with breastfeeding an unrestrained baby in a moving car, I can see what would drive someone to do it, and probably wouldn't loose respect for someone over that. But that was not the case here -- she was the one driving (the only adult in the car). She just didn't buckle them in!

[UUMom]

My dh is from a communtiy in southern Europe where carseats are ***rare***. People climb into autos that are supposed to seat 5 woith belts, and then cram 12 people into them. Mostly, they get to where they need to go unscathed. But not so infrequently, folks do crash, and unsecured children do die.

The cars are small, and families usually have 2 kids, and then a grandparent or maiden aunt or two. People do take chances. Cars are not as cheap , and most Europeans do not tend to drive large vehicles. Carseats are def not top priority in some areas. But it's not that folks don't get killed. They do. My dh's family did laugh at me when i brought our carseat. It was a pain...in my dh's family it seems a picnic needs to include many, many people---which is wonderful--- byt thay are all driving in the same car. I always strapped the baby in- and myself. The others all sat piled on each other's laps.

[jenoline]

Originally Posted by Lynski

The second reason is it's the law. Not having them in the car seat is not only a crime, but is considered child abuse.

Actually, in many states there is an exception built into the law that says you the child may be out of their seat if you need to attend to their "personal needs". Not safe, not recommended, but legal.

[Rainbow Brite]

We pull over. In fact, on our first long car trip, we chose a route 1.5 hours longer than the regular route just so that we would always be able to pull over in case dd wanted to eat or take a break. It was a very long trip, but I'd do it again any time. I would never take her out of the car, I would never lean over her while driving to feed (have done this parked when she wanted more after strapping her back in) and I will not let her sit and cry if I can help it.
That's just us.

[cheery]

some folks ask, why not jsut pull over to nurse. well, that is what we always did ... until one day duringa 3 hour drive from austin to houston, timed for just after lunch so that dd could sleep through the ride, we get stuck in traffic and she decides she needs to nurse again. so we endure the traffic jam somehow, then finally pull over, nurse and she's asleep again. till i put her in the carseat and then she wakes up. so i take her out and nurse again adn she falls asleep and then i put her back int eh carseat and she wakes up. so this time i finish bucklig her in to the carseat and then lean over her to nurse her down. as soon as she is unlatched i instruct my friend to start the car. that was the first time i nursed dd in her carseat, and yes, it was while pulled over. but afterwards i realised i could do the same without pulling over.

i have never kept dd out of the carseat in the US while anyone was driving but i ended up doing so twice in England, both times due to some poor planning - like my frined drops me somewhere but then her dh comes to pick me up - without the carseat - or we end up going somewhere with too many people in the car and so i have to carry dd on my lap. funny that these minor errors NEVER happen to us here in the US. So I guess there is some attitude. But I think it is a healthy attitude and I am all for it. Sure there are more dangerous things than not using a carseat - so let's not do those either. Yes, probably, overall it is more impt to bf than to use a carseat, but hey how on earth woudl this be an either/or. I mean, yes, bf is optional while carseat is mandatory, but as a card-carrying lactivist i really think it is a poor argument to say that carseat in any way hampers ones ability to bf. and i dont recommend that everyone do what i (used to ) do either but then probably we should avoid such long drives. Not avoid carseats!!!

[Flor]

When I was living in Mexico, this family I knew would let their child (about2) free in teh back seat. He had a car seat, but chose to get out of it. We were cruising down the highway, going way too fast as everyone always seems to do there, and his favorite thing to do was hang on to the bar over the back window with his feet on the window like a little monkey!! This used to freak me out even though I wasn't a mom yet. Their attitude was that you can't controll everything and it'll be your time or it won't. . .I just can't put that much faith in the universe. I'll do what I can and a car seat seems like a little thing. Maybe it is American to believe that we have some control over our fates. But, as I keep write about lately, I was in one finder bender and one near miss this month. Neither were my "fault." I am so thankful my son wasn't in the car EVEN IN HIS CAR SEAT!

[Bleu]

I pretty much have two words on the subject: Pull. Over.

Seriously, yeah, it cramps your style. Yeah, I had to forego a lot of things that I wanted to do because Bleuet was not a carseat fan. We took the train. We walked. We didn't go on vacation or any type of road trip for two years. We stayed home a LOT. But it's illegal and that teeny tiny statistic could be you.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by cortsmommy

Well babies don't sit in car seats in limos or in taxis or on buses either. I think the carseat thing is yes a safety precaution and yes it does save lives but we don't all wreck everyday.

Some limo/taxi companies will put a car seat in the car if you request it when you order the vehicle. I also know of people who put their own carseat into the taxi/limo, yeah it'd be a pain, but if you're taking the taxi to the airport, you'll probably need the carseat anyway.

Buses are a mixed issue. Buses have way fewer accidents than other vehicles, drive slower than most cars, and are usually much more massive than whatever they have a collision with. So there's less of the jolting that causes objects to be tossed about. I personally would feel safe riding with a baby in a sling. I would not feel safe if all I had was my arms.

Lightrail/EL is the way to go, they have rear facing seats!

[sapphire_chan]

So does bumper to bumper traffic count as "pulled over"? I'm assuming that you have control over when the car starts moving again.

[Brisen]

Originally Posted by MerryOne

I've seen kids that could walk in the infant seats and heard the mother's make excuses for it.

My third child is 9 months old today, and still small enough for her infant bucket seat. Her oldest brother was walking well by 9 months. He's not a big kid, I imagine he would likely have still been small enough for the bucket seat then, too.

I did lean over/unstrap myself a few times to nurse -- on long car trips, where there was no safe place to pull over -- but I have since learned about the danger that *I* would pose to everyone else in the vehicle (as others have stated here), so now I would pull over instead. I would probably make an exception for a traffic jam where we basically weren't moving and couldn't pull over.

[*bejeweled*]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

Every single time a baby dies after being thrown out of a car, or being left in it in hot weather, or a kid shoots herself, or a million other preventable things, the parents start crying, "It was just for a minute," "we were only in town," "why us," etc, etc. I feel zero sympathy for those people.

My heart breaks to read your statement.
I hope you never ever make a mistake.

[oceanbaby]

NO ONE in my car is allowed to remove their seatbelt. My mother (of all people!) took hers off the other week to get something out of her pocket, and you should've heard my daughter go off on her! "Grandma, we do NOT take our seatbelts off when the car is moving. That is NOT safe!" And

Ds1 does this as well. My dad is horrible about putting his seatbelt on, and anytime he gets int our car ds1 is all over him about it, badgering him until he puts it on!

About bumper to bumper traffic: I did remember one time when we were sitting in gridlock that I took ds out of his carseat and held him on my lap in the backseat. I felt nervous about it, but decided to do it anyway.

NYC: We visited NYC last year, and I agonized over the carseat decision. In the end, we decided not to bring one. And yes, we did drive in some taxis, and it made me really skittish. I was thinking about ds the whole time. We tried to take the subway as much as possible. I sooo wish there had been taxis with carseats.

I got a lot of flack from my family when ds1 was a baby about being so strict about never taking him out of the carseat. My dad used to argue with me that if he was driving it was okay because he has a safe car and is a good driver. Now that ds2 is here, they are used to it, and have stopped giving me grief about it.

[Jennisee]

I've actually found that most people of my parents' or grandparents' generation know someone who lost a child in a car accident before there were car seats. It's one of those things that's "not talked about," but once I asked, I found out about several cases in my small, rural community.

I couldn't imagine taking DD out of her carseat in a moving vehicle. As crazy as it sounds, one of the biggest driving hazards around here is hitting deer. You can be driving down the road, being your responsible self, no other car for miles, when a deer darts out of the brush in the ditch. That is always in the back of my mind. I am ashamed to say that I have leaned over her carseat to nurse her, but I have been educated by this thread and won't be doing that again. So I thank you all for that.

As far as how we deal w/ it, I rarely drive anywhere w/ my car seat-hater. We have skipped weddings, graduations, parties, play groups, etc. b/c it was too far of a drive. When we do go somewhere, I sit in back w/ DD to entertain her. We also try to time it so that she will be tired and nap during rides. We try to do all our shopping at stores less than 20 minutes away. We allow extra time for stopping if necessary. Even w/ all this, we never drive longer than 45 minutes w/ her. The exception to that is the 3 hour drive to my mom's that we have done twice--driving only in the middle of the night while DD sleeps. Yes, this is all very inconvenient and style cramping, but I will do anything *safe* I can do to prevent her from crying.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by srain

I'd tell these folks that they should reconsider the car trip instead!

[luv my 2 sweeties]

So does bumper to bumper traffic count as "pulled over"? I'm assuming that you have control over when the car starts moving again.

Not always. I don't know what the stastics are over all, but here in Michigan we have had a couple of situations in the last few years where slow moving/jammed traffic resulted in multi-car pile-ups when someone toward the back of the line rammed into the car in front of him/her. The farther up the line you are in the collision, the worse the impact is, both from behind and in front as your car is rammed into the car in front of you. In one pile-up, there was at least one fatality and in another there were some quite serious injuries. One pile-up involved something like 70+ cars, the other involved a couple hundred. I think both situations were complicated by bad weather, so maybe a regular rush-hour traffic situation would be different. But you never know when someone will be fiddling with the radio or something and not notice the slowed traffic in time.

Just something to think about. I can see how a screaming baby in a traffic jam would drive someone to do just about anything. I wouldn't be able to promise that I would *never* unbuckle them in that situation if we were stuck there for a long time. It would be a tough call, though.

[Momtwice]

Originally Posted by Jennisee

I've actually found that most people of my parents' or grandparents' generation know someone who lost a child in a car accident before there were car seats. It's one of those things that's "not talked about," but once I asked, I found out about several cases in my small, rural community.

My friend, born in the 60's, has permanent, life-altering injuries from a car accident she was in as a small child with no car seat.

[Kundalini-Mama]

For the record, I have never taken my kids out of their carseats while it was in motion, and since I live up in VT, I don't really encounter any traffic either. So they stay in the seats.

I have nursed my 2nd DS about 3x in the carseat, obviously we pull over the other times he needs to nurse or is fussy and needs to be held. When I nurse him in the car, both out belts are on. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it does.

If this was my 1st experience w/a child, I would be aghast that all you mamas on here just don't simply pull over whne your child needs to nurse. Yes, it makes the trip longer, yes, its a pain, but you do what you gotta do.

But this is not my opinion, and this is not my opinion b/c of my first son, who was extremely HN and has some SID issues as well. Whenever he got in the car, he would start crying, and w/i 30 seconds, puke all over himself. This happened every time I would take him out of the seat to nurse him and then put him back in. The only thing that calmed him was nursing in the seat. I didn't want to nurse him in the seat. I wanted to pull over, I didn't want to contort my body like that.

In the beginning, I was steadfast about pulling over. A one hr trip took easily, 4-5 hrs. I tried to suck it up, take less trips (we rarely travelled as it was), we had to go visit family, it was a 5 hr trip. With nursing him in the seat the trip still took over 9 hrs. If I were going to pull over and nurse him, the trip would have easily taken over 24 hrs--we would have had to gotten a hotel.

Sometimes pulling over is just not that easy.

Amy