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Monogamous committed lesbians parenting a child (or TTC) Buddy Group - Page 2

post #21 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgreer
Kincaid and Everyone,

If you are concerned about the general tone of this board, I might suggest checking out this one:

https://www.sdfamilymatters.org/Forum/default.asp

The group is based in San Diego, but the board has really just started, and is intended to be a nice place for all of us to talk about parenting issues. There is even a disclaimer that abusive language, etc. will not be tolerated.

I think those of us who want to discuss things without taking abuse should establish a presence there and help to set the tone of a nurturing environment.

BTW, I have the same screen name there, so you'll see my posts.

Greer
I'll check it out -- thanks.

I feel bad for Kincaid............I don't know what happened, but I hate the thought of somebody's feelings getting hurt as a result of what appeared to be a simple post/question.
post #22 of 118
I'm sorry to hear Kindcaid won't be posting here, as well as deleted her posts, she is a wonderful advocate for "this" lifestyle and I really enjoy reading her posts.

That being said, I think that the flaming and whatnot was in relation to a different subject in the realm of homosexuality. We should all still feel comfortable posting here, in our Queer Parenting forum, so please don't back out of participating in this buddy group! It is so wonderful to see how many mamas there are on this board that I had no idea about!
post #23 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faerieshadow
I'm sorry to hear Kindcaid won't be posting here, as well as deleted her posts, she is a wonderful advocate for "this" lifestyle and I really enjoy reading her posts.

That being said, I think that the flaming and whatnot was in relation to a different subject in the realm of homosexuality. We should all still feel comfortable posting here, in our Queer Parenting forum, so please don't back out of participating in this buddy group! It is so wonderful to see how many mamas there are on this board that I had no idea about!
When I said that as a lesbian I do not feel comfortable/welcome/accepted on the Queer board I mean just that. The flaming and whatnot that I experienced was from bi and poly folks that I felt very disrespected by. I want to make that clear, that is how I feel. For me.
But others can feel differently and believe this is a very lesbian friendly space. I definately am not asking anyone to jump ship with me. I will continue to be a member on MDC, just not the "Queer" area. Which I do not feel is lesbian freindly (sorry, Faeiryshadow, to me that is where the dichotmy lies).
post #24 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kincaid
When I said that as a lesbian I do not feel comfortable/welcome/accepted on the Queer board I mean just that. The flaming and whatnot that I experienced was from bi and poly folks that I felt very disrespected by. I want to make that clear, that is how I feel. For me.
But others can feel differently and believe this is a very lesbian friendly space. I definately am not asking anyone to jump ship with me. I will continue to be a member on MDC, just not the "Queer" area. Which I do not feel is lesbian freindly (sorry, Faeiryshadow, to me that is where the dichotmy lies).

AMEN. I have not been flamed, but whole heartedly agree. I am happy to see that there are so many Lesbian on this board (I didn't know you were here). I don't think that Bi (married to men) and poly folks have an understanding of what it is to be in a OUT MONOGAMOUS COMMITTED LESBIAN (or GAY) relationship with children or TTC. Different worlds! We should have this forum changed from QUEER to Alternative Parenting.
post #25 of 118
I'm sorry Kincaid, I thought you were talking about that other junk that happened. Now that you mention it, even in that other thread I do recall bi and poly mamas getting pretty aggravated at the points we were trying to make about specifically lesbian relationships.

Perhaps if all of us who have replied to this thread start posting in the queer forum more it will start to seem more leveled out? I don't know... thinking over comments and discussions I've seen I tend to fully agree with you both, Kincaid and Sophia. While I'm certainly not trying to negate any hardships that bi or poly people have, those of us in an out lesbian relationship have quite different and real issues of our own. I'm not sure why people seem to think we are saying that they have no issues, or their issues aren't important.... but I can't help but think that legal issues and harassment and discrimination are a little more "real" than most people want to give us credit for.

It seems like a lot of people have the attitude of "Yes, I am married to a man but I am bisexual and therefore all the heartache I have to deal with about my feminine partner, or my desire for females, makes my life on a par with yours as far as hardship." When, as couples who have to face the realities of a country that hates us, none or next to no legal rights for our life partners or non-bio children, we are told that the heartache of being "seen as straight" is the same... I agree, it does tend to tick me off. So, add me to that soapbox.. :LOL

But I think the only way we can start to feel comfortable in this forum is to post actively and have discussions with one another. I know I've started threads here geared toward lesbian relationships and gotten basically no response, because no one checks here anymore unless they are replying to the bi or poly threads.
post #26 of 118
Thread Starter 
Here is an example. There is a thread called "Are you going to the Pride festivities." Lots of bi married to men and poly folks posted yes. Someone posted and said she did not plan to attend because (I am paraphrasing from memory, so sorry if I am a little off) gays are working so hard to get rights that having a big bizarre drunken party where people try to look "freaky" seems to work against us getting equal respect and equal rights.

I agree 1,000% with her! How is anyone going to let my partner and I marry legally, have joint rights with regard to our son, health coverage, and non-discrimination in empolyment if they see us out there scantily clad and looking freaky carrying gay signs and the whole thing sponsored by booze?

But a bunch of people responded to her statement by jumping all over it! HOW DARE SHE! Well, as long as they are married to men and enjoying all the priveledge they want it is easy to say that it is wrong to assimilate to get rights. Duh! They get to enjoy the party and then go home and enjoy their marriage and tax breaks and benefits.

(Some posters specifically commented on how to them it was a big queer party, and not about rights, so that is what I refer to).

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the committed lesbians trying to settle down and work and pay their taxes and GET BENEFITS and recognition suffer the backlash. While the folks who enjoyed their "queerness" at the festivities can go home and fill out their married tax forms and all the stuff they enjoy.

I have nothing against Poly or Bi folks. But I am darned mad on this forum that they are so disrespectful of the LACK of rights that lesbians suffer. I was told by a bunch of "queer" moms (married to men) to GET OVER IT and that I would be a lot happier, and they face as much discrimination as me. That I would enjoy life more if I got over it. You tell that to my partner who has no rights over the son we concieved. You tell that to the lesbians who have had family members take their children away legally because they are gay. Tell me to get over it! Then say Pride is all a big party. Well, it is NOT all one big party. Some of us have LESS rights than they do, and it is infuriating to be stepped on and then told to get over it and be happier

Whoa..... and there is why Kincaid needs to stay off the Queer board!

As far as lesbians reclaiming this space, I don't see it happening. Pull up an old thread posted by a lesbian asking what the children of other same-sex couples called the moms. Read the responses. There are a bunch of married to men "queer" folks responding saying "what is the big deal?" and "your kid will call you whaever he wants" and "my son calls his dad mommy too, what's the big deal?" In my opinion, it seems they all jump on the few lesbian posts and diminish the heck out of it. And it kills the threads. And lesbians quit posting.

Just so I am not complaining and offering no solutions, the only thing I can think to suggest is making a thread in the "Tribal" areas for committed lesbian parents/parents to be. (I would totally include single lesbians TTC or with kids in that definition). I think the group could get some strength there. And then maybe come back and reclaim the queer board! But as it is, the lesbian moms are not any kind of "presence" on here.
post #27 of 118
Hey,

I am kind of crashing your thread (coz altho I am lesbian, I am not in a monogamous relationship with a woman right now), but wanted to respond to Kincaid's post about the Pride thread, and about the more general issues on the "Queer Parenting" board. I was going to pm this, but it got kinda long and I decided to post it instead.

I think you are making some assumptions about who is posting on the Pride thread and what the motivations are.

I am the one who posted that I see Pride as a gay party. I am a lesbian. Well, I say I am lesbian-identified-bisexual, but I have really only had sexual/romantic relationships with women. So I'm lesbian for all intents and purposes.

I have a child who I conceived with a gay male friend, and we parent her together. I live with my ex girlfriend.

And I consider myself to be an activist for gay/queer issues, and for other social justice issues. I have chanted "out of the bars and into the streets, they're your rights too" at more protests than I can count. I think I go about my activism differently than you do - I think gay/queer culture has something to teach the larger culture, and my goal is not particularly to have us accepted and assimilated, but respected and honoured.

I agree with you about the differences between *out* partnered with children, or simply too-butch-to-pass lesbian women, and the "bicurious but live with a man" set. I have had some arguments with the latter folks wherein I've found soemthing to be homophobic and called it out, only to be responded to with "well I'm queer too." Annoying.

Anyway, I know there are many issues as queer/lesbian cultures shift and change, and as more people identify as queer. But please don't make assumptions about the intent of people posting if you don't know the whole story.

And Kincaid, please don't leave the queer parenting board! We need the smart, politically aware lesbian mamas to stay! And inform the discussions about queer life and queer activism.
post #28 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazlilith
AMEN. I have not been flamed, but whole heartedly agree. I am happy to see that there are so many Lesbian on this board (I didn't know you were here). I don't think that Bi (married to men) and poly folks have an understanding of what it is to be in a OUT MONOGAMOUS COMMITTED LESBIAN (or GAY) relationship with children or TTC. Different worlds! We should have this forum changed from QUEER to Alternative Parenting.
I agree with you on all four points. I come to this particular forum looking for women with similar lives as mine -- lesbian/monogamous/commited/parents --or even something very close to that (i.e. single parent lesbians who are or are not dating other lesbians).

I participate in the Curve Magazine discussion board, but the downside to that is that very few of the women are moms.

Hold on, hold on...I have nothing against the other lifestyles and orientations AT ALL, so don't even go there.
post #29 of 118
Just checking in as lesbian in a committed monogamous relationship. 2 kids, etc....

My take on the board space issue: these arguments are going to happen in any glbtqi kind of place. I find them interesting and stimulating...as I do the gay party vs. "we're here, we're queer, get used to it" philosophy of Pride.

I feel like my "presence" in this space is a valuable as anyone elses, and I've learned quite a bit from the bi and poly moms....

I'd love it if we're cycling back onto the lesbian-only spaces of the 1970's. It was fun and we built really great institutions that way. 'Course now "what is a lesbian?" is a more complicated question than it was then!

Interesting food for thought. Thanks, y'all.
post #30 of 118
I think it's difficult on this large board to minimize a thread to such a small population and expect huge turnouts. There aren't that many acutal lesbians here, much less ones that have a partner. I'm one of the few lesbians, but since my relationship has ended, I guess I don't "qualify" to be on this thread either, even though I'm a lesbian parent. Maybe something in Finding Your Tribe would be a good idea
post #31 of 118
I'm wondering about the whole Pride festivities thing.... I mean, I posted in that thread and at the end I mentioned that our pride event is more about relaxing with "family". I hope that isn't taken to mean I don't appreciate or want to participate in working toward gay rights..it is just simply that there isn't a big scene about "We're here, we're queer" at this function. Our Pride Day is treated as a big picnic in the park day... but we don't have strange sights or drunk people partying during the festivities. That gets saved for the bars later on... I'm actually kind of curious what other cities' Pride Days are like if different from here. Last year I knew 75% of the people at the park that day, and everyone I knew was very gay or lesbian, no inbetween or bi about it. In that sense, I truly am looking forward to a day at the park where my dw and I can hold hands and push our ds in the swing without having the other kids look at us funny and their parents start whispering indignantly. Although rumor abounds that this year a church group is planning on staging a protest during our picnic.

Anyway, I digress. I am just finding that my queer experiences here in this town seem to differ in many ways from other parts of the country, and I'm very interested in learning about everyone's point of view based on where they live and what they experience.

I had no idea about posts like what you've mentioned, Kincaid, and honestly the thought ticks me off quite a bit that someone could act blase about things just because they dont understand. Furthermore how dare someone come to the QUEER forum with homophobic undertones??

I think what bothers me the most about all of this is the label of this forum.. queer parenting... that should indicate a place to discuss the issues one faces as a queer PARENT - dealing with the legalities, dealing with what to tell your children about your family makeup, dealing with reactions from a homophobic society, etc etc etc. The forum "Queer PARENTING" should not be a place to discuss one's sexuality, or gather together to discuss having a sexual lifestyle that includes many people, at least not as the main function. I have no idea if such a thing exists or not, as I don't usually have the time to explore all of MDC as I'd like, but I'm beginning to think that there should be a forum for discussing SEXUALITY, so that we can have the queer parenting forum to discuss actual parenting issues. I'm beginning to figure out just exactly how likely that would be, however.
post #32 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmb123
I think it's difficult on this large board to minimize a thread to such a small population and expect huge turnouts. There aren't that many acutal lesbians here, much less ones that have a partner. I'm one of the few lesbians, but since my relationship has ended, I guess I don't "qualify" to be on this thread either, even though I'm a lesbian parent. Maybe something in Finding Your Tribe would be a good idea
I don't see how you wouldn't "qualify" here, unless you don't identify as a lesbian who would normally be in a relationship with another woman, who would expect said relationship to last a lifetime. But that is just my opinion. I personally think it is a mindset and not what may be your current situation, does anyone else have any thoughts?

I was actually impressed with the amount of people who have replied to this thread. I didn't think anyone was complaining about that, but rather the lack of voice in the forum as a whole?
post #33 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faerieshadow
I don't see how you wouldn't "qualify" here, unless you don't identify as a lesbian who would normally be in a relationship with another woman, who would expect said relationship to last a lifetime.
Because the thread is only for those in commited relationships, I'm not at this moment.

I was just trying to point out to the OP that she says she would like conversations with lesbians as opposed to bi or poli women, but then she narrowed it down so much, that she may be missing some of the lesbian women here. That's all..
post #34 of 118
Thread Starter 
CMB -
My post you were responding to said this
Quote:
(I would totally include single lesbians TTC or with kids in that definition).
I certainly did not mean single lesbians are excluded, and I said that. As for the the title of this thread (which you don't see explained because I deleted my original post).... by "committed" I meant not open relationship/poly folk. Why leave them out? Two women, or a single lesbian, raising a child is a totally different experience legally, socially, etc than when there is a man involved in the equation. When the relationship is open and poly, the dynamics change. Is this clear then what I mean by committed? I just meant the opposite of open. Honey, I was a single lesbian for longer than I like to remember, so I definately would not exclude you. And if my partner leaves me... then I will still have a different set of issues than a woman who concieved a child with a man.... something that other lesbians would understand but that would be vastly different from the male/female one (i.e. my partner not having rights to my child).
Those who concieved a child with a man, and who are co-parenting with a man, or married to a man and have a girlfriend(s) - their kid has a father in the eyes of the state. Mine doesn't. We have different legal and conceptual frameworks.
That was what I was trying to get at

Quote:
The forum "Queer PARENTING" should not be a place to discuss one's sexuality, or gather together to discuss having a sexual lifestyle that includes many people, at least not as the main function. I have no idea if such a thing exists or not, as I don't usually have the time to explore all of MDC as I'd like, but I'm beginning to think that there should be a forum for discussing SEXUALITY, so that we can have the queer parenting forum to discuss actual parenting issues. I'm beginning to figure out just exactly how likely that would be, however.
I TOTALLY AGREE!!!! An open sexual relationship is a sexuality/relationship issue. Gay parenting is something VERY different. I have suggested to the powers that be that we re-shape this forum and move relationship/sexuality issues to someplace appropriate for them. And that Queer Parenting be about the issues that Gay folks face as a parent in society. I don't think "Married but interested in expoloring my bisexuality" has anything to do with gay parenting - it is about sexuality and relationships.
If you post something about television or music on a main board, it is moved pretty quickly into the forum for TV/Music/Media. I think the same rule should hold for this forum. Again, just my opinion.
post #35 of 118
Well doesn't "married but interested in exploring my bisexuality" affect parenting? Why is being a lesbian in a monogamous relationship the only "status" worthy of being discussed in the Queer Parenting forum?

It seems to me that you think only one queer family dynamic counts, and only one viewpoint counts. And that the others (polyamourous, Gay Pride as a party) are somehow *less* queer.
post #36 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama
Well doesn't "married but interested in exploring my bisexuality" affect parenting? Why is being a lesbian in a monogamous relationship the only "status" worthy of being discussed in the Queer Parenting forum.

These issues are different for parents than single, childless folk.
No one is saying that is doesn't affect parenting. No one is trying to take away from their experience. There are 100's of threads on that, anyway.

I think you are just wanting to argue. You are not respecting the request of several lesbians here to just have a lesbian thread, a SIMPLE request to have a SMALL space available to them to talk about the SPECIFIC issues they do deal with. NO ONE HAS FREAKING SAID it was the only thing worthy of being discussed in Queer Parenting.

Why is it that any requests for a small space for lesbians to discuss their issues is met with claims that we are marginalizing the other groups. I don't get it.
post #37 of 118
Well I was unsure about speaking in this thread. But the focus was not on the issues pertaining to monogamous lesbians. The focus turned to criticizing posters on another thread, and making assumptions about us (me, to be more specific, as I was the one who spoke about Gay Pride being a party and not caring about impressing the straight people).

I am not "just" trying to argue... I am trying to have a discussion with you about what Queer means. I don't hear you asking for a "small space" - if you want a thread for monogamous lesbians, either do it here and stay away from talking about other people, or do it in FYT. No problem.

I am interested in debating your assertion that Queer Parenting is not a place monogamous lesbians can feel comfortable because other types of queer people post here.
post #38 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama
I am interested in debating your assertion that Queer Parenting is not a place monogamous lesbians can feel comfortable because other types of queer people post here.
That was NOT my assertion. Not at all. Thus there is no reason for me to "debate" you regarding things I did not say. As long as you are not listening to me or reading my words as they are written, then I see this as simple argumentativeness. Not debate.
post #39 of 118
I agree with the above poster, I don't think she limited the entire conversation of the queer parenting board to committed lesbian parenting issues. But I do think that there are limited threads that DO deal with lesbian parenting issues. I have been coming here for two years, and look at my number of posts...I have had a hard time finding issues that reflected my own experiences. When I did post, so many poly/bi moms responded (in my case, supportively but could not help as the issues do not affect a woman raising a child with a husband/male partner) that I had stopped checking in this board more than the occasional glance.

I am okay with sharing the board with other queer identified parents, but I am glad to be able to see other lesbian moms posting. I am hopeful, thinking we might actually be able to get support and suggestions occasionally.

I actually recall the "what do your kids call you" post, as I looked at it when I was still pregnant and we were exploring different ideas. And although I agree kids will call you what they will, and it changes weekly(!), before your child is talking, you have to put some idea in their head, and that thread was not a fun, idea filled place, it was a lot of bi moms scratching their heads.

I seem to have jumped around a bit. Sorry. Mostly just want to reiterate that I am happy to see the lesbians come out to play.

Mo

ETA am lame in this whole posting thing, just now learning...I would have quoted had I figured it out! My "above poster" is actually like three posts above, I just am slow!
post #40 of 118
totally off topic! But that pregnancy test that just came up automatically when I typed "ETA" is making me crack up! Bear with me, people,I will figure out the details of posting soon. I just didn't want people to think I was crazy and had that in my post for no reason.
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