Killing Frogs - Page 9

[Ceinwen]

Your boy has a good heart, and he will learn from your good example

Agreed.

[aran]

Originally Posted by Raven67

Vegans don't eat animals because of they are "sentient" beings, meaning they have feelings, physical and emotional. They suffer from cruelty and and try to avoid pain....many animals also have an awareness of their impending deaths, as you can see when you try to kill them and they try desperately to escape. There is no reliable evidence that plants share these qualities, in any meaningful way. People usually throw the plant thing out there, not because they care about plants and suffering, but to try to take the focus off of the torture and killing of animals. Vegans just don't want to be any part of the deliberate and avoidable killing/harming of animals...of course, there are animals killed incidentally, like when we mow the grass...but, that doesn't excuse the intential infliction of harm and killing. Just because one cannot reduce or eliminate all animal suffering in the world doesn't mean one shouldn't eliminate as much as possible.

OT. I asked about plants because I spent 6 years growing them and studying them in graduate school, and started to wonder why, just because they are apparently not sentient or social, their lives are devalued. Somewhere along the line, I started to like plants and appreciate their amazing qualities more than some animals. (That seems weird to me when I write it... but it's just how I feel). That's why I asked about this - not to take the focus off the suffering of animals, which is not something I condone. Also, I see mowing the lawn as an avoidable infliction of harm, since it is for aesthetics only. Just goes to show the wide range of opinions here. Didn't mean to change the topic to plants vs. animals.

[darsmama]

Sunamama, Thank you

By george I think I got the understanding,

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by zoesmummy

I was merely sharing that I thought the fact that my burger munching distressed her was irrelevant to the topic and starting to veer wayyyyy off course.

OOhhh 'cause the burger munching was ON topic.

Again, just because one person is being argumentative, i don't think it's fair to start trashing people who are being nice just becuase they happen to be vegan too or whatever.

[Ceinwen]

Again, just because one person is being argumentative, i don't think it's fair to start trashing people who are being nice just becuase they happen to be vegan too or whatever.

I vehemently deny trashing anyone.

And I'm still soooo not sorry for the burger comment.

[darsmama]

I love plants too Chuck. I think they are awesome and I am way in awe of them! Yes, way more than animals in some ways. I can't think of the last time an animal cured an ailment (I guess there is Botox hehe), but I can think of HUNDREDS of plants that can cure ailments.

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by zoesmummy

The two aren't even remotely comparable.


Nice try though.

When it's being said specifically to hurt someone ( and it was being said just to offend the vegans) it is. It's not like you were casually mentioning your lunch- it was a dig.

To many people (including myself) being vegan is a huge part of their spirituality.

[darsmama]

Thanks to this and a few other threads, my buttocks have now "OFFICIALLY" taken the shape of the chair I am sitting in.

[Yooper]

Originally Posted by zoesmummy

Um, tough?

edamommy's absolute rudeness to the op was also "not funny" and "offensive" but nobody else here is crying.

Besides that, the thread had nothing to do with vegan vs meat eater. The pp brought that up herself.

I agree EM's posts were not funny. But yes there was "crying" about it.

Two wrongs do not make a right....on topic or off, if you are going to be mean spirited about eating burgers, just know you are offending more than just your intended target.

I am steaming about your apparent lack of empathy for someone that might be a little more sensitive than you about animal killing (and your flipping burger IS killing BTW). I never said do not eat meat. I never said do not mention meat. But to rub it in the face of someone that YOU KNOW is sensitive to it it just mean. And even worse to just blow it off as "tough" after I tried to come in here and point out both sides in a gentle manner.

[Ceinwen]

To many people (including myself) being vegan is a huge part of their spirituality.

So just because it's part of your spirituality, I have to tiptoe around you and be respectful even if I disagree.

Sounds like the religious circ debate to me.

Very similar...

If I can't make people agree with me, blame it on my religion. That'll make them shut up.

And I'm sorry if is trashing people. I was trying to convey my disgust.

[Raven67]

Originally Posted by cmb123

When it's being said specifically to hurt someone ( and it was being said just to offend the vegans) it is. It's not like you were casually mentioning your lunch- it was a dig.

To many people (including myself) being vegan is a huge part of their spirituality.

Here, here! It is a dig on spiritual beliefs, AHISMA=striving for harmlessness. Sadly, it is commonly accepted that vegan-bashing is tolerated and funny. All we can do is point it out, like you are doing so graciously.

[Ceinwen]

But to rub it in the face of someone that YOU KNOW is sensitive to it it just mean.

Again, all I can say is - so?

Lots of what's been said here has seemed "mean" to me! I'm not asking for any apologies or for people to lighten their stance. I'm merely defending mine...

And again - if eating my burger offends you, don't look! :LOL

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by zoesmummy

If I can't make people agree with me, blame it on my religion. That'll make them shut up.
.

Is that truely what you read from my comment? I not once in any of my posts here have suggested that anyone "agree" with me. I personally have not even been argumentive. That's why I'm saying that it's not fair to pick on ALL of us just becuase ONE person was being nasty.

Tiptoe around me? Heck no! Be respectful YES>

[Yooper]

Originally Posted by zoesmummy

I vehemently deny trashing anyone.

And I'm still soooo not sorry for the burger comment.

To state over and over that you are not sorry for intentionally offending anyone that finds eating animals graphic and not-funny for whatever reason is just sad. Sorry you have so much hatred.

[Ceinwen]

Sadly, it is commonly accepted that vegan-bashing is tolerated and funny.

What about "meat eating" bashing? That seems to be okay to you guys. What if eating meat was important to my spirituality? Would that make it okay to you?

I don't see the difference.

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by yoopervegan

Third, you can tell from my username that I am a vegan so I feel qualified to answer the "why is it OK to kill plants" question. Plants are not sentinent beings. They do not feel pain, they have no social behaviors, etc.... Of course I also do not think killing plants just for fun is OK either. So point A - Killing anything for no reason = bad. Obviously all creatures need to eat, humans included. We have choices about what we eat. While I believe humans were meant to eat meat, we were not meant to tinker with nature OR make animals live terrible lives just so we can eat burgers. Therefore point B - We have a choice and I choose to avoid torturing sentinent beings whenever possble. There are environmental aspects too in that plant based diets tax the land less than meat based diets. People write entire volumes on this subject so I will stop now. But that is the reason I feel there is a differnece between plants and animals.

Fourth, I know you all are fired up and it is really fun to pick-on-the-vegans, especially when one is being a little too militant on the issue, but making jokes about eating burgers is offensive to me. Stating that you like meat or mentioning burgers, or posting meat recipes is not offensive, but I find nothing funny about poking fun at someone's beliefs by mentioning something that is actually quite graphic to me.

Thanks for the explaination. I really have wondered this when I have read that plants do react to an animal being hurt or another plant being pruned...
Anyway, I hope you don't think by ASKING about this is not "pick-on-the-vegans", some people really are curious...

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by zoesmummy

What about "meat eating" bashing? That seems to be okay to you guys. What if eating meat was important to my spirituality? Would that make it okay to you?

I don't see the difference.

Please quote me where I have bashed your meat eating... That's simply not my style-ever.

[Ceinwen]

Is that truely what you read from my comment?

110% yes.

It sounds like you are using your spirituality as a crutch.

And I don't appreciate the "hatred" comment.

That's a strong word, considering the fact that the op was so belittled and looked down upon.

I consider that hatred.

I'm only calling certain posters to task on what they're claiming.

I "still" don't feel bad about the meat eating comments guys! I can't believe that what was said to the op about animal abuse, and watching her little one "closely" is okay - but my remark wasn't.

[Yooper]

Originally Posted by zoesmummy

What about "meat eating" bashing? That seems to be okay to you guys. What if eating meat was important to my spirituality? Would that make it okay to you?

I don't see the difference.

Where is the meat bashing? I thought I only saw frog-squishing bashing.

I am not asking you to tiptoe around people's known or unknown beliefs, but you knew full well that the burger comment was going to be offensive to Edamommy. Yes, she was harsh. But you fail to realize that many veg*ns are reading and you are intentionally offending people who have been respectful to you in your attempt to "get back" at EM.

[Yooper]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Thanks for the explaination. I really have wondered this when I have read that plants do react to an animal being hurt or another plant being pruned...
Anyway, I hope you don't think by ASKING about this is not "pick-on-the-vegans", some people really are curious...

Nope, I did not think asking was bashing. I am glad it helped