Newborn eye goop

[EStreetMama]

Hi--I hope this is a good place to post this question. I'm getting my birth plan together for a hospital birth this summer (no insurance for home birth! : ).

We went on the hospital tour and they said that it is Oregon law that the eye goop is done no later than 1.5 hours after birth, and that the goop does not sting and the baby can see through it.

We would prefer to decline the goop altogether, but are trying to choose our battles with the hospital and doctors. I don't want to be in constant defensive fight mode while birthing.

Before deciding to try and sign a waiver to decline, etc, can the baby really see through the goop? Seems like a stretch to say that. Can I wipe most of it off when they leave the room? How long does it affect their eyes?

Thanks for any answers and advice on this one!! I and my baby appreciate it!!!

--Adrienne
expecting first and only boy: Owen 8/10-ish

[mwherbs]

[mwherbs]

the eye med is put into infants eyes to prevent transmission of gonorrhea to the baby that could cause blindness. Many people will say it works for chlamydia but this is not true chlamydia infection will need a systemic med and is not treated topically
as for being able to see put some in your eyes and see if it distorts your vision

[mightymoo]

WA state is similar and I basically dropped the eye goop fight because it wasn't worth the possible consequences. Apparently if you decline (at least here) the staff is supposed to 'notify' CPS. Now whether CPS cares is a gamble, right? But I don't want to be investigated 2 hours after my baby is born, etc. I don't feel the goop is necessary, but it wasn't worth the chance of having problems to me.

I don't know about the whether the baby can see through it. My midwives at the time (with DD) told me they personally had put it in their eyes and it is only fuzzy for a second and then you blink it out - but every picture I see of a baby with the eye goop they have their eyes closed, I have a hard time believing that it isn't affecting them.

One thought is rather than pushing to decline it (if you are concerned about the consequences) maybe just push to postpone it to 3 hours or so?

[captain crunchy]

We are declining it... I believe the law here is that you have to sign some waiver--- not sure, we are having a homebirth and I *doubt* they will call CPS ...

I think, like most newborn "procedures" it is COMPLETELY unnecessary unless of course, you do suffer from one of the STD's mentioned above.

[MamaTaraX]

I declined with both of my kids. no big deal. I don't know what the "law" is in my state. I do know that its standard protocol in all of our hospitals to drop that stuff in their eyes. It can be delayed and still have the desired effect for 2 hours. It's to prevent the spread of gonorrhea. If you know you don't have it, there's no reason to put the gunk in their eyes. It does sting and makes vision fuzzy. Hav eyou ever paid attention to a baby with the eye goop versus one without? The ones w/o it look alertly at their newly found parents. THe ones with it blink or close their eyes alot and seem more dazed and it's obvious they are having a harder time seeing through it. There is question as to how long this lasts. Some say it's a few minutes, some say a few hours. The stuff they used a few decades ago caused the burning and blurry vision for days. You can decline anything you want, you just sign a waiver. ON a final note, I think the use of the eye goop is incredibly antiquated and frankly rude. "They" assume that all women, including ones who have been married to the same person for 20 yrs, are walking around with STDs. That's pretty awful, if you ask me. It is used under the notion that all women are skanky or their partners are and nobody's talking about it...so we use this prophylactic goop so that nobody has to say a thing. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of the stuff.
Namaste, Tara

[paquerette]

Have you actually seen the state law that says this? I'd ask for them to prove to you that it's a law. It may be just "policy". I know some states have laws, Mi, NY, but I hadn't heard about Oregon.

In addition to the vision problems, I'd worry about thrush and developing allergies to the antibiotic.

[Guest*]

Like others have posted already, it's not worth the hassle to fight this too hard if the staff is going to fight you on it.

If they plan to fight you on your decision, maybe you can compromise by agreeing to allow it once the baby is ready to go to sleep. That way, your baby can still see you as clearly as possible until s/he is ready for bed.

BTW, I tried it on my eyes and it did not sting and vision was only fuzzy for a minute. My daughter had mild conjunctivitis when she was a few weeks so I was given a prescription for the eye goop. So, just like I do with all medicine and food I give her, I tried it myself first. It's really not a big deal, IMO.

All the best,

[Guest*]

Originally Posted by MamaTaraX

ON a final note, I think the use of the eye goop is incredibly antiquated and frankly rude. "They" assume that all women, including ones who have been married to the same person for 20 yrs, are walking around with STDs. That's pretty awful, if you ask me.

Agreed! It is rude to assume everyone has an STD. Why don't they just ask or test then? Is it that hard? Ugh..."they" get on my nerves.

[Arwyn]

I'm totally in favor of being easily able to decline this stuff, but I wanted to respond to this:

Originally Posted by MamaTaraX

"They" assume that all women, including ones who have been married to the same person for 20 yrs, are walking around with STDs. That's pretty awful, if you ask me. It is used under the notion that all women are skanky or their partners are and nobody's talking about it...so we use this prophylactic goop so that nobody has to say a thing.

I don't think this is true; I think it's that they know a small portion of women do have gonorrhea and don't know or won't admit it. The consequences can be pretty severe (blindness), so they, like with Hep B vaccinations, they just treat everybody, so they can be sure of catching the few who do really need it. I don't agree with this policy, but I do see where they're coming from.

It's not that they think every woman is a skank or every husband is unfaithful; it's that they have no way of identifying the few who are (that would require, y'know, a relationship with the parties involved).

[BensMom]

Yeah but...my MW told me that the test for gonorreah was included in the standard blood draw that most providers do. So they will know at the begining of pregnancy whether you are infected or not. But since they cannot guarantee anyone's fidelity during the pregnancy, they go ahead and treat everyone.

Sounds like they could just treat those who dont know or tested positive. But to force it by rule of law upon all women, with the threat of CPS if they don't comply? That's wrong!

[ZeldasMom]

WI still has this archaic state law on the books that erythromycin eye ointment be administered at birth from back when gonorrhea was a big public health issue. I am planning a home birth, but am making a birth preferences sheet in case I have a hospital transport. This is one of the issues I will be addressing. Fortunately I have heard through the grapevine that so many people at my hospital have declined this they now have an erythromycin eye ointment waiver form for you to sign when you decline.

If your hospital has a policy of calling CPS when erythromycin eye ointment is declined, I would call CPS myself well beforehand and ask about this and how it is handled. You don't have to tell them your name if you don't want to. Take a friendly tone. If they are totally clueless I would send some info about this to the supervisor (and find the most authoritative sources I could--a good reference librarian could help with this--look for stuff about the negative effects of antiobiotics on lil ones). I would include a little note saying I understand their concern about this issue given the old state statute that is still on the books, but that unfortunately it doesn't take into account the most recent medical evidence on this issue.

I might also have my own negative gonorrhea results (signed by doc or midwife) ready for cps if they show up at the hospital with an article explaining about erythromycin eye ointment (the worker might not know the purpose of the eye goo) and the negative implications of early/over exposure to antibiotics.

edit: for folks who are planning on having this intervention, i don't meant to imply i think it's horrible in all cases. I just think it makes sense to weigh the benefits and risks of procedures and decide what is best based on your own situation.

[TurboClaudia]

hi adrienne!

re: oregon law, i don't believe that is true. i have heard many a tall-tale when on hospital tours of local maternity and birth centers. sounds like one more to add to the list. keep in mind that the nurses giving the birth center tours are just nurses sharing what they have been told, or in some cases, what they think they have been told. ask your own personal care provider and your own personal pediatrician what their thoughts on you declining the antibiotic is. share with them that you know you are gonorrhea-free (if this is true) and that you are considering declining any unnecessary treatments or preventive measures. oh, and after you get your bill from the hospital, triple-check to make sure they didn't charge you for stuff you and your babe didn't get. it happens more often than you know: nurses and docs and staff just put in the standard care stuff forgetting to check what the actual care procedures were or weren't.

as far as picking your battles, i totally understand why you would feel this way. we planned and had a homebirth with our son, initially i declined the eye antibiotic, but after pushing for close to four hours and him coming out with a wave of meconium, one of our midwives recommended we put some in his eyes for preventive measure. she said she had personally tried the one she uses in her own eyes and it didn't sting her. we agreed that it was a wise choice given the circumstances. sure, some of those first pictures show him with goopy eyes, but he was as wide-eyed an hour after birth with goopy eyes as he was 5 minutes after birth with non-goopy eyes.

good luck with your choice-making! peaceful pregnancy to you, mama...

~claudia

p.s. OT: did you still wanna get together to talk about and share sling info?

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by MamaTaraX

ON a final note, I think the use of the eye goop is incredibly antiquated and frankly rude. "They" assume that all women, including ones who have been married to the same person for 20 yrs, are walking around with STDs. That's pretty awful, if you ask me. It is used under the notion that all women are skanky or their partners are and nobody's talking about it...so we use this prophylactic goop so that nobody has to say a thing. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of the stuff.
Namaste, Tara

:

I totally agree.
I was also under the impression that it was state LAW in Massachusetts, but my pediatrician told me that it is not--I just have to sign a waiver--so we are declining it. Hospital policy is one thing, state law is another, and frankly, "hospital policy" can go screw. I would also check with your state health board to find out if it is in fact law.

[mwherbs]

in many states but not all the law is for health care providers-- they have to offer/administer it -- but you don't have to receive it
New York is one state that is a PITA and they started this calling CPS stuff and just after that one of the docs here in AZ recommended LM do the same thing but the LMs said no way

[Kaitnbugsmom]

I'm giving myself a migraine trying to find the law in Indiana. I'm finding more pro-vacc./anti-selectives articles than I ever thought would be on a state site, but no exact laws wrt the gel. We were told on our hospital tour yesterday that we can delay it for two hours, but that's it.. I'd like to be armed with actual law if possible

[ldsapmom]

I declined the eye ointment with my second baby. I first told my midwives, then I informed the nurse once I was in labor -- everyone was fine with it. The only thing the nurse said was, "If we start to do it, remind us you don't want it done -- we get so stuck in routines we may forget." They didn't forget .

Here is a question, though: I have heard practitioners state the eye-ointment is also to prevent bacterial infections a baby may get from coming through the vagina. Is that only g? Or could there be other bacteria, not from an std, that could cause an infection? And granted it was not as serious as g, couldn't they just treat it after it showed up? Is that just something they say?

You never know what the truth is!

[mightymoo]

Originally Posted by jlpolzin

Agreed! It is rude to assume everyone has an STD. Why don't they just ask or test then? Is it that hard? Ugh..."they" get on my nerves.

Actually what is totally riddiculous is that they DO often test for it at your first prenatal appointment, when they do your pap smear. Not that most women know because of course they don't bother to tell you what they are doing...

It did make a lot more sense back in the day when the disease didn't have a treatment and could really seriously harm babies, now a days, even if Mom has it and baby is not treated with eye goop it is not the deadly disease it was when these laws were put in place.

[AugustLia23]

We got it for DS 1, only because we never looked into it, and he had green goop coming out of his eye(just one) for 6 weeks afterwards. DP is very allergic to -mycins, so that may have been it, but anyways I don't have gonorreah, or clamydia, so we will be declining it for all future children.

[Belle]

OP, I think they lied to you. It is not Oregon law that your baby has to have it. Our Bradley instructor told us it's state law that it's required only if mom has a STD. Don't let them tell you different. My baby was born at Portland Providence last August and we declined the eye goop with no problems. Our nurse was genuinely curious why we declined them. We told her we knew my sexual history and weren't concerned about my dd going blind from my nonexistant STDs.

ETA: We didn't sign a waiver or anything. We just said "No thanks, we'll pass on that" We got no hassle about it.