SAHMs, how do you feel about being financially dependent on a man? - Page 5

[rebeccalizzie]

Even though I'm not (yet) a SAHM, I thought I'd respond to this because DH and I have discussed it in depth. I will be a SAHM after number two is conceived and born, I hope I hope I hope! Right now, we have three checking accounts--each of us has a personal account with our "allowance", and we put an equal percentage of our incomes into the joint account for all bills and child related expenses. That has worked out well. Our plan once I'm home is for us to keep the current system, except that DH's income will be split into the three "pots".

The key, for us at least, is that I will get exactly the same allowance that he gets, and to do that we are keeping separate checking accounts for our allowances. That shows that my job is just as valuable as his. We like not having to account for personal spending to each other, because our styles are different--he saves for months and buys a big item, I blow my allowance on lattes and clothes, and we are both happy. If we had one checking account, I would blow all the extra and he would never be able to save for his expensive toys!

If you think about it...I work outside the home now, and I make a lot less than DH. Does that mean my job is less valuable? No, of course not. And that's the situation with almost everyone I know--I know a few women who make more than their partners, but not many. I guess it also helps that I would be able to go back to work if I needed to, so it would be a bit less scary for me to rely on his income alone. I don't think he'd ever leave me, but what if he got hurt or died? Scary stuff

[eightyferrettoes]

Originally Posted by SmilingChick

I don't feel any which way about it, and honestly I can't figure why some people get their feathers all ruffled.

DH and I each have a job...he works in his particular field and is rewarded with money.
I stay home and care for our child which rewards me with satisfaction, and also rewards dh and I with the fact that we don't have to worry about what our child is doing all day at some day-care center. In the long run, we will (hopefully) be rewarded with a grown daughter who is a well-adjusted, self-sufficient caring citizen.

We both work; the main reason dh is the one working for $$ is because I have the breasts and he has higher earning potential.

Well, the reason I get my feathers all ruffled is that, yes, dh "works for money" and I "work for satisfaction" but in the event of a husband losing his danged mind and backing out of this cozy domestic arrangement, the wife is often kind of screwed.

It's a bit like reading sweet little articles about how a SAHM is really a "bookkeeper, fashion expert, chef, child development specialist" etc, etc.

But this overlooks the ugly fact that in this society, you can't actually put any of that on a resume. And judges in family court aren't always that sympathetic to the plight of the abandoned SAHM.

ETA: Okay, that was unneccesarily condescending. But I'm really passionate about this subject. I feel like my mom got a big fat F.U. and so many of our mothers did, and yet there's this large thread in my own community of sainthood for SAHM's, and disdain for wronged older women. It's such a dichotomy. It's adorable to be a 25-year old mommy, but a 45 year old divorcee gets the "it's not your husband's fault that you have no job skills." treatment

Guess what I'm trying to say is that staying at home IS important, but when I express some *serious* reservations about it, I get kind of blown off by people who, it seems to me, have got their heads in the sand. Working moms are like, "Woman, then get a job!" and home moms are like "sweetheart, I'm sorry your marriage seems unstable to you" : It's like everybody is TRYING to miss the point! AAAAAAAA!!!

[UUMom]

Well... I can't say in any way, that I would get any sort of big fat FU.

While my earning potential hasn't increased hugely since I have been a SAHM, it has not changed much. I could easily support my children and myself on my salary without dh.

If dh was paying child support, that would be gravy.

I can support myself and my children.

Plus, in MA, I am entitled to half of everything accrued during my marriage.

Including retirement funds.

I am not screwed. Not in any way.

I accept that those without educations or retirement funds would be, however. I also know that a lot of women never really had any means of support, even if they do have college degrees.

Still, one doesn't stop br;eathing if a man leaves them. I really do hate that doomsday scenario. OMG, if a woman, even for 5 minutes becomes a SAHM, she's someone's property and looses all intelligence and all means of support! they take away her degrees and she becomes totally unemployable-- all because she took time to be home for a small child! What a world! What a world!

I have been married for 20 years, and several of our friends from college have divocred in that time frame. None of the women are on the streets, none are unemployed if they do not choose to be. None of the men have been let off the hook for child support (alimony is a horse of a different color).

Get an education. Get a skill. Make sure you've held a coupld of jobs...whatever. but really...

Caring for a child for a couple of years might reduce your social security check (oooo, scary, 'cause that's gonna be a heap o' dough when we are all old! ) but it isn't going to make you a homeless person. Sure, there are homeless women collecting cans, but it's not cause and effect that because you were caring for a child for a time, you'll simply become destitute if a man leaves you.

This is fear -mongering.

The fact is -- educated women can support themselves.

[UUMom]

Rebeccalizzie- that's a concern.

Do you have life insurance and/or disability insurance? Your dh should have at least some of this through work. if not, you might consider some sort of insurance policy. Maybe they offer something reasonable though his job?

Life insurance won't nec make you a millioniare, but it might buy you some time at home while the children are very small, and it might help pay off the house, or give you enough money for rent for awhile as you figure out the next step.

At any rate, if your dh, g-forbid died, your children would still get a certain amount of Social Security death benefits until they are 18. It might not be much, but it might be enough to pay for decent child care so you could work.

If your dh also has life insurance, you'll have even more ability to care for your children as you look for work, or go to school. or if it's enough, care for you and the children in the way his salary would have.

Disability is a more critical issue.

[eightyferrettoes]

Sigh. I wish it were fear-mongering, truly, I do. And you're absolutely right, women who have educations, even college degrees that are 25 years old, have a substantially better chance of making it than ones who are "uneducated".

I guess my issue is watching my own recently divorced mama. She IS homeless, if living in a church counts as homeless; works at WalMart for minimum wage, and is TRYING her durndest to get back on her feet after a year. But at eight bucks an hour, where is she going to go?

Shoot, if it weren't for the fact that my grandparents fronted the costs for a good divorce lawyer, I don't know what would have happened. When the marriage collapsed, my dad took the money in their "joint" accounts and fled, and she literally had the clothes on her back. Not even a suitcase. It was awful. Just getting her personal belongings (photos, clothing, gifts) out of the house took an entire year of court battles, which, let me say, ain't cheap.

The most mind-boggling thing about the whole scenario was the nonchalance of my dad, who said, "Yeah, I froze *my* money. She never worked for it anyways" And this was a guy who used to wax eloquent about the beauty of homeschooling, homemaking, blah, blah.

I feel, honestly, that a lot of people around me go into SAHM situations with blinders on, especially 20-somethings like myself who feel like opportunities are limitless for "later" without paying attention to the opportunity costs of staying at home.

It makes me shaky to think that my own father, respectable "Christian" man that he fully believes that he is, could pull such a stunt with complete self-assurance.

Sorry, mods, if this needs to be pulled. I'm struggling hard with this issue, obviously. No disrespect intended to SAHMs-- I am one (for now.)

[UUMom]

Yes, this does happen. Is your mother's divorce final? People do get screwed, that's for sure. I am sorry about what has happened to your mother.

Was she not even entitled to some of his social security, even if he has frozen other assets?

In MA, one is entitled to half of all assests accrued during the marraige. I don't know how it is where you are. Even if he hides his money from work or investments (which happens all the time, esp if the man is self-employed) but their home should have been sold and the money split. If there was any equity, of course.

Of course, the screw factor is high. I am sorry your mother is not able to support herself. I am sure she feels blessed to have her parents support right now. Coudl she live with you or her parents - at least until she can save money from her job so she can get an apartment?


I think of fear-mongering having to do with younger, more eduated women. I don't know any women under 40 or so, who don't have the potential to work in their fields. There is no reason a woman who does have an education, but takes some time off to raise children, whould never be able to get a decent job again. I don't know anyone who plans to be home, completely unemployed, for 10 or 20 years, yk?

Your Mom- and you- must feel so betrayed.

There are other issues which factor into the poverty your mother is experiencing-- it's not just that she was a SAHM. Poor women, without educations etc are most at risk of living on the streets--or in church basements etc. There's no doubt about that at all.

I'm so sorry. Our society has failed when women who spent their lives caring for others find themselves with no visable means of supoort. I hope your mother can find her way to a good life. That's just wrong.

[eightyferrettoes]

Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say.

Yes, the divorce is final; however, some outstanding financial issues are still unsettled, and my dad is dragging his feet for as long as possible, because the longer he drags things out, the more she runs out of options. She lives in Hawai'i, and I live in the middle of nowhere, Alaska. So she cannot come live with me until things are settled in court. And I really can't just hand over a three month old baby to go help her out.

And I do feel very betrayed. I have always admired my mom and wanted to be a SAHM, but now feel like the position is too vulnerable. Makes me want to shake my blissfully "ignorant" friends who are quitting college, etc, to stay home. They're not ignorant per se, but they do refuse to see that they are actually taking an appreciable amount of risk.

As you say, our society could care less about a middle-aged, uneducated, greyhaired old mama, but it has no qualms about encouraging young women to stay home, as if the young mamas will stay limber and pretty forever.

Anyways, I'm rambling now. It's late, I guess....

edited to make some freakin paragraphs.

[SouthernMommaOf2]

I will admit that times I feel really worthless even though I handle the money, care for the kids full time and take care of our home. The main times I get really frustrated and feel worthless is when we see our BIG bills come in each month and I can't just say "oh well let me handle those bills this month". I finally got on my dh's bank account as a signer. So now I have a checkbook and can get something if I need to. Before a month ago I didn't have any money in my hand...I controlled it by paying the bills online or having my dh sign checks and I fill them out and mail them...but now I feel more involved. I do have the fear that if something happens to me and dh's marriage that I will be on my own with my daughters. But I have been counseling myself over 2 yrs that I can do it on my own if I have to. Recently I started purchasing fabric, I'm starting my own hand-made biz. I make bags, diaper covers, slings & more..my dh is shady on the idea since he doesn't think I can make it a career but I can't blame him...it's something new. So we'll see.

Mandi

[amj'smommy]

To answer the original question, I've honestly never really thought about it. In our family I'm the one in charge on paying the bills and designating how much $ goes where(dh is absolutely horrible at it and I was in banking before we had the kids).... maybe that's why I don't feel financially dependent on dh. Sure he's the one who brings home a paycheck, but how could he work with three little kids tagging along....I'm pretty vital in the equation here :LOL In regards to if he passes away we do have life insurance and I can honestly say I'm not afraid of what might happen if we were to divorce (not that I can ever see that happening in the future but who knows) Maybe I just see it differently than others since I don't have to ask him for money for this or that or depend on getting an "allowance" from him (which I highly disagree with but that's another story... I won't even go there.....)

[rebeccalizzie]

Originally Posted by UUMom

Rebeccalizzie- that's a concern.

Do you have life insurance and/or disability insurance? Your dh should have at least some of this through work. if not, you might consider some sort of insurance policy. Maybe they offer something reasonable though his job?

Life insurance won't nec make you a millioniare, but it might buy you some time at home while the children are very small, and it might help pay off the house, or give you enough money for rent for awhile as you figure out the next step.

At any rate, if your dh, g-forbid died, your children would still get a certain amount of Social Security death benefits until they are 18. It might not be much, but it might be enough to pay for decent child care so you could work.

If your dh also has life insurance, you'll have even more ability to care for your children as you look for work, or go to school. or if it's enough, care for you and the children in the way his salary would have.

Disability is a more critical issue.

Oh yes, we both have life insurance, enough to pay off our house plus a bit of a cushion. We figured out that either of us could support the family alone if need be if the house was paid off. DH has decent disability insurance as well--his job depends on him being healthy, if he hurts his back or something he can't work.

I also have the luxury of a marketable degree that I've used for a few years. I'm an accountant, so I really can leave the workforce, keep up with my skills by taking a class or two, and re-enter if needed in a few (or many) years. I truly cannot even imagine DH divorcing me without making sure his kids were taken care of financially, but if he did I could get back into an accounting or bookkeeping position, and I really can support us on that.

I do have to wonder if that's part of why I don't worry about feeling dependent on DH...pretty much no matter what happens, I know that if I needed to I *could* support myself financially. It would be very scary if I didn't have that knowledge in the back of my mind. I manage the money as well, he'd have a tough time hiding money from me

[Oh the Irony]

Originally Posted by laralou

Meowee, is your reason for excluding women dependent on other women centered on a male-domination theory? If so can you please clarify? I would like to contact you via pm or email but you have disabled that function.

did this ever get answered?

[UUMom]

Well, the question was about being dependant on a man-- since ours is a patriarchal socitey. If one is not dependant on a man, then the partiachal world of finance isn't the question, although finanacil dependance might be, Wolfmama.

Now, one may be financially dependant on a woman, but that's not about patriarchy, so that's a different sociological question.

So, while we are here- does it feel any different being dependant on another woman, if one is?

[UUMom]

Looks like you have your bases covered, Rebeccalizzie. From your first post, it sounded like you were afraid financially.

Fom your 'spreadsheet', it seems that you're not.

Emotionally, I'm dependant, since I think my dh rocks.

My 'spread sheet', however, shows I am *quite* independant.

I asked because your post indicated fear. Good to see your bases are covered. I always worry when women are left vulnerable.

[Pandora114]

Greaseball: I sympathize with your situation, and am in a similar one myself. feel free to PM me if you wanna vent or whatever.

[MotherEarthMom]

I manage the money and he has know idea about it,but I don't like the fact that he is the sole money maker and I hope to get at least a part time job when my daughter goes to school.I would also like to study something online to get a degree in some kind of field.

[rebeccalizzie]

Originally Posted by UUMom

Looks like you have your bases covered, Rebeccalizzie. From your first post, it sounded like you were afraid financially.

Fom your 'spreadsheet', it seems that you're not.

Emotionally, I'm dependant, since I think my dh rocks.

My 'spread sheet', however, shows I am *quite* independant.

I asked because your post indicated fear. Good to see your bases are covered. I always worry when women are left vulnerable.

I can see how that would come across from what I posted...it's hard to say what I mean sometimes when I'm typing it out! No, I feel pretty confident that I am covered financially, but I think death or disability is something everyone should be prepared for, especially families with only one income. It's great if you are confident your DH will never leave you (which honestly I am), but you can't plan on him never getting hurt or dying. It's scary to have to prepare for it, but (IMO) necessary. That's why I mentioned it.

[rileysmommy]

dh goes to work and earns the check, after that he never sees it, has no idea how bills get paid, has no idea how we budget or eat or anything..... if he didn't have me to take care of the money, he very well may be keeping it in a sock under the mattress.
even though he works out of hte home, i definitly have the power dynamic in the relationship. i am the one that makes the decisions on what gets purshcased and when. it only makes sense, i am the one that knows the bills, and whats due when, so if i say that no we don't have the money for a certian item at this moment.. then he takes that as the answer.
as far as him leaving me..... there is already a written agreement for that. but i doubt thats going to happen. we like being married to each other too much!
if he were to die(oh GOD forbid!!!) he has a large life insurance policy, plus i would get 2 years salary from his work. i was never one to agree with the "tony soprano" logic of.... "you'll be taken care of, don't worry" we made sure as a team that things were in place in case something happened.
so no, i really do not feel like i am dependant on him and his money( even though i really am..) since i handle everything, i feel more like he is dependant on me.

[momsgotmilk4two]

I honestly don't worry about it at all. I do have a college degree to "fall back" on in the event that my dh should die (he also has life insurance) and I have plenty of family to help me out. The way our relationship is though, I can't say I give it a lot of thought. The money dh makes is just as much mine as it is his. I'm not made to feel like I'm not entitled to it. I have just as much access to the accounts as he does. My mom was a sahm for many years and then went to work as a respiratory therapist which doesn't pay a whole lot of money. My parents got divorced and nothing horrible happened to my mom. They split everything down the middle and he provided child support.

[MrsMoe]

My staying at home isn't forever. When the kids are older, I fully intend on going back to work.

Currently, I have no issues with my husband working and providing money for the household. What he makes is our money, not his money.

[lauraess]

I cant go back and read ALL the posts right now but have read some. I was in on the thread called "financial Fireproofing.." When I read that i had already been thinking I should put some of my own "very part-time" money into my own account. Well, My dh read my post there about these checks I was waiting to put in my own account and since i didnt talk to him about it this became something he saw as withholding important info as well as $. Needless to say, he is very upset with me. I am terrible with understanding money and when it seemed to me that 'smart' women were saying "have your own account" well, I wanted to do something right and watch out for myself.
My education is limited, I've had lots of work experience but that was almost 8 years ago, and now i am exploring my new interests and working part-time instructing yoga. I would have a real hard time supporting myself and my kids if we were to divorce but I am sure my dh would support them. I am not worried about our relationship because i love him dearly and we work on our marriage-- not a lot , but enough i think--and he loves me too. Death or injury would be helped by his insurance - although i do not know how much. Of course, there is certainly the possiblility that things could change. That's life, isnt it? so, I must be careful and open this account for me correct????

L