Does it ever stop?? c-section *rant*

[Yummymummy74]

Dh's cousins wife had their baby last night, her first child ..baby was 9'15 and only 20 inches long! (short little guy!) apparently she was "10 days late" ..(read normal for primip) and I don't have ALL the details yet but I suspect she was induced.. for "post dates" and subsequently cut because " the baby was far far to big for her to pass" ...when I hear this stuff it just makes me cringe.. I feel bad for that baby mostly, but also bad for the mother who now has to deal with recovery from major surgery and a new baby..ect ect.

Ack.. I have not emailed them yet, still formulating what I can say! They live in a really backwards province though where homebirth with a midwife is illegal... and everyone I know who lives there so far has had surgical births.

Its pretty infuriating.. I am very petite woman compared to her, and I birthed a baby bigger than that @ 17.. *sigh* I firmly trust that your body just won't grow a bub it cannot pass kwim?

Anyhow.....

[dziejen]

You could just offer congrats on the baby and leave it at that. What matters most is that they are both fine and she probably thinks everything went fine although it is not your (or my) ideal situation. Now that I am preparing for my 3rd baby I realize there are many things I want to change with this birth experience and things that I would not do again but until I had learned and spoken to others (and became a member of MDC ) I thought things were great. Frustrating though when you have info that others just don't know/won't accept -- my passion is breastfeeding so I can relate to your feelings when people won't even try or don't trust themselves. At least via email you can write out a well thought out response and they won't see your face or hear your voice

[OnTheFence]

First, you don't know why she had a csection. Don't assume.

Offer congrats and keep your opinion to yourself.

Kim

[crazy_eights]

I don't remember her saying that she was planning on offering her opinion to her cousin. If we can't rant about all the 'postdate inductions/baby "too big"/inevitable c/sec" here at MDC, where CAN we rant about it?

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by Mom2six

I don't remember her saying that she was planning on offering her opinion to her cousin. If we can't rant about all the 'postdate inductions/baby "too big"/inevitable c/sec" here at MDC, where CAN we rant about it?

But she doesnt know if that is the reason. So why rant about it in the case of the cousin's csection?

[Aura_Kitten]

i think the pp was responding to the op's comment that she was "still formulating what to say."

i'm in the camp that says "congratulations," and just leave it at that. maybe, also be willing to listen if she needs to discuss her feelings about the c/s.

// nak

[pamamidwife]

with a primip being induced, it's a good chance the cesarean was iatrogenically caused, that's for sure. were the statements in quotes things that her family said about the birth? could be things that were said to the woman about her own body by her own providers (which i hear all the time, and are horribly sad that women carry around those messages).

sure, we all know cesareans are sometimes necessary. however, in my own community, a primip has a 33% chance of a cesarean in the hospital. does this mean that suddenly 33% of women are incapable of birthing vaginally? no. it just means that about 23% of these women chose the wrong provider to support them in birth.

surely even those that are looking out for cesarean awareness can't argue that the odds are always that there are more iatrogenically caused cesareans than necessary in the terms of what is naturally occurring.

still, it's frustrating. I would hope that we wouldn't need disclaimers on every rant about the rising operative birth rate in this culture here at MDC. we're not ignorant, we all are aware that sometimes cesareans are necessary. however, we don't need to say that every time, nor can we not voice our frustration with a situation that appears to be sadly so many first time mom's initiation into motherhood.

I would like to view B&B as a safe place to rant about these sort of issues. While I view "I'm Preg" as a more mainstream forum, B&B seems to have a handle on support, advocacy and being able to vent about bucking the cultural fears around birth.

Vent away!

In terms of what to say to this mama, don't say anything beyond what you would normally say to someone who had what you view as a great birth experience. Offer to help her out at home, run errands, assistance with breastfeeding, etc. We all have our own journey re: birth and parenting. Just being open to helping her postpartum could be the biggest help she needs.

[crazy_eights]

Amen Pam!

[cottonwood]

In your email I would tell them congratulations, and offer help. And then later, after she's had some time to recover, I would casually mention, "hey, I just want you to know that I know that it wasn't what you were expecting and surgery can be rough, so if you ever want to talk about I am totally here for you." She may not be ready to talk about it for a LONG time, and when she is it might not be with you. I think the important thing is to let her know that you are open to it, because a lot of people probably aren't, with the common response being "oh you just be happy you have a healthy baby blah blah."

[Yummymummy74]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

First, you don't know why she had a csection. Don't assume.

Offer congrats and keep your opinion to yourself.

Kim

Sorry Kim, you have your c-section thread this is not it ok... it said RANT...
I DO KNOW why she had the section dh just off the phone with his aunt.. it was a typical NORMAL primip goes past 40 weeks so they want to induce.. broke her water gave her pit and gee! she failed to progress.. so the "baby was too big" so she got cut...

Very very sad situation.

[Yummymummy74]

Thankyou Pam.. BTW.., excellent post, I get a little annoyed with the c-section rhetoric tossed around here lately. I think I KNOW that c-sections are good to save a life if someone is dying (that fact is pretty elementary) but I cannot and will not accept them as a decent elective choice thankyou very much! and when I see a healthy mama with a healthy pregnancy who was obviously not even ready to have her baby get cut...its very upsetting because for her now to carry that scar... is pretty horrible and it sets the stage for her other birth experiences to come and now she will think she is broken and beleive those idiot medicos at that french hospital she birthed at :

I am not in a postion to help her.. I live in another (much more liberal) province, we tried Quebec for 6 months and it was pretty horrible from a NFL perspective.. so we got out of there fast. She is surrounded by family thats had nothing but surgical births anyhow... seems the norm there..

She does plan to breastfeed and cloth diaper, but none of the other family there did either.. so I hope she can find some help somewhere, otherwise it looks pretty dismal.

[applejuice]

I often wonder about the newborn weights that hospitals report.

As a fourteen year old, I remember weighing my newborn brother, and if the baby is alert and healthy, they move alittle, and the weight # goes up and down.

Anyway, good luck to her; she will live with the results of the decisions made for her in labor, not you...too bad. Maybe later she will get educated.

[thismama]

I think you got a lot of responses saying "don't assume" because it read like you were going to talk to her about how bad it was that she had a c section.

I agree with pamamidwife completely, and I agree with you marsupialmuma that it sucks sucks sucks to hear about unnecessary c-sections. The medical establishment is crap and birth has been co-opted. We know this, but it's really frustrating when it happens in your family/circle of friends.

I also think tho, that I would stick with "congratulations, how can I help." If she knows you at all, I'm sure she knows your opinions and experiences re birth. If she wants to talk about how it could have gone differently, I would imagine she will come to you if she doesn't feel judged by you.

Unnecessary c-sections suck.

[mamimapster]

Wow!
Only 9 days and they induced? I Would NEVER let that happen to me since very luckily I know better. My mom was a "Natural Family" (NFP) person from way back, and according to her charts, doctor etc. I was due to be born on the 29th of dec. I was born a little more than a month later, and a planned homebirth. My mother never would have consented to be induced, and I know that my sis 2 was almost on the dot, and sis 3 was again about 3 weeks late. All homebirths, sis #3 was born in the middle of a blizzard & I caught her because NOONE could get through the massive snowfall! I know that everyone makes their own choices and I totally respect that however, I don't think I would ever consent to being induced unless I was 100% certain that my babe/self were in grave danger. It's sooo sad that it seems her babe wasn't ready yet and was forced before it's time.

[Yummymummy74]

Right .. 10 month mama here too, I think that alot of it has to do with the element in which they live and the people who surround them there, when we were there for that brief fleeting time, they were very interested in our homebirth and had all kinds of questions about our cloth diapers and breastfeeding ect.. I mean nobody there in their circle did those things as basic and normal as they seem to us.

Dh's family there sort of looked at us like WE were weird for our choices to breastfeed (duh!) :LOL and cloth diaper and our choices of NFL in general. I am not sure what went wrong really.. when we left there this time last year, they were still TTC and planning to use a midwife at something called a "birth house" (no clue its a french thing there, as homebirth midwives are illegal)

Im not sure what happened cause we are not super close.. but they had that edge to them that was different you know? and a genuine interest in this stuff.. so I think somewhere along the line they got some BAD information... and chiding from people who just don't know any better..

Anyhow.. nothing can be done now.. but I was really suprised when I got the all the specifics.

[Yummymummy74]

[QUOTE=thismama
I agree with pamamidwife completely, and I agree with you marsupialmuma that it sucks sucks sucks to hear about unnecessary c-sections. The medical establishment is crap and birth has been co-opted. We know this, but it's really frustrating when it happens in your family/circle of friends[/QUOTE]

Uh huh... : how about these numbers, 4 babies born in this circle of family in the last 18 mos.. guess how many were born *normally*

1....... our daughter

Hmm on a lighter note maybe I should get myself a complex about this, everyone else was " just to small" to have their babies normally
Hmmm my kid practically fell out : : ya thats it.. my vagina is the ritz carlton.. spacious roomy and accomodating..
I have grown tired of hearing that I am "just lucky" or a "born birther" (dh's aunt)

whatever!

[Britishmum]

Originally Posted by pamamidwife

I would hope that we wouldn't need disclaimers on every rant about the rising operative birth rate in this culture here at MDC. we're not ignorant, we all are aware that sometimes cesareans are necessary. however, we don't need to say that every time, nor can we not voice our frustration with a situation that appears to be sadly so many first time mom's initiation into motherhood.

I would like to view B&B as a safe place to rant about these sort of issues. While I view "I'm Preg" as a more mainstream forum, B&B seems to have a handle on support, advocacy and being able to vent about bucking the cultural fears around birth.

ITA!

[Valerie.Qc]

I agree, unnecesary csections sucks...

I understand she's in my province, right? Homebirth is not illegal anymore... but hard to get as the midwives are all working in the Birth Centers (called Maison de Naissance) and need to follow their schedules and be available for other births... so one can plan a homebirth and end up having to birth at the Birthing Center if there is another birth at the same time
(and they won't let you plan a homebirth if you live outside a X km radius from the Center)

For support in breastfeeding and cloth diapering, I might know ressources but I need to know where in the province she is (you can PM me if you prefer )

[Storm Bride]

Can I just say that I'm not sure the "congratulations on your baby" approach is necessarily right? I don't know your dh's cousin, so I don't know what her reaction is. But, I had my first section 12 years ago, and I've never really gotten over it. And, now that I've spent a lot more energy on examining the whole thing, I've realized one of the reasons why I've never recovered...

Everybody behaved as the c-section didn't happen. They treated me as though I'd just had a normal birth and I had a beautiful baby and life was great. There was next to no acknowledgement (in the hospital or later) that I was in great pain. I had a nurse bawl me out for taking to long to roll over the first night when she brought ds in for me to feed. There was nobody (except my mom, who had btdt) who ever said anything about the surgery except "you look great", because I seemed to be recovering well. I was going through one of the most painful, frustrating, and depressing periods of my life and nobody seemed to think it was anything worth noticing. So...I'm not saying to jump on the anti-section thing with this woman. But, I don't think I'd be inclined to just say "congratulations", either.

What should you say? I really don't know...this one hits too close to home for me to think clearly.

[Yummymummy74]

Shes in ile perot or however you spell that.. know it? it was west of the island if I recall.. I only found one breastfeeding clinic when I was there and needed it and it was at the Jewish General hospital and it sucked! they did thngs totally backwards compared to who I am used to dealing with directly (Jack Newman) and he could not help me because I was out of province! ...anyhow I digress.

The only resource I found for cloth was a diaper service and Bummis, Betsy the owner is super nice but her selection is not that great. I also cannot see this girl driving downtown for supplies ect..

Anyhow I will update again if I hear more news.